Posts by Retrovirus

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

Retrovirus

It addresses the question if I am a theist, agreed? Perhaps we need to define "theist" more clearly.

You just have a vague sense of feeling inspired sometimes

Argh, no, please don't redefine without at least a question mark. I mean, I ask for advice and get it. Specific help, for example with maths problems when I was at Uni. It doesn't mean I don't use my own resources as far as possible.

Is this source of guidance the creator and sustainer of the universe

I don't know.

Do you thank him for everyday events or petition him for help?

I doubt it's a him, as there is an element of patience. Yes, I've said I ask for help when I need it. I give thanks for help and clarification and the wonder of being alive and supported, not for parking spots.

Retro

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

Retrovirus

Sure, I'll try.

I believe that I get guidance and support from something greater, outside myself. Whatever you want to call that "something". Study, prayer, and meditation all help me get this guidance.

Given the helpfulness and creativity of the guidance, I believe that it comes from something with more wisdom and integrity than myself. Not hard to imagine, as I've met countless people wiser than I. So there are some wiser still and so on.

But no more than an ant knows an elephant, I don't know if the source of this guidance and strength is bound by any restrictions, follows guidance of its own or whatever. What it could do, does or doesn't do, I cannot answer for. Infact, anyone who has faith in a higher being cannot account for that being, as by definition, it is higher.

And just to make sure you don't get carried away - guidance is guidance, not compulsion. I don't always follow it. (and don't dare insert a crybaby here! :))My decisions are my own and I'm entirely accountable for them.

Hope that helps, Retro

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

Retrovirus

Not quite Cofty,

In the summary you kepp quoting you said

It is about suffering that is not caused by humans and how theism accounts for it.

I'm saying that "Theism" - not necessarily Christianity - CANNOT account for it and therefore CANNOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE for it. That addresses the whole summary, not just rebutting point 14. Hope that's clearer.

As for Pelican yes he did blithely dismiss the suffering of the victims. He even added a crybaby emoticon

And I'd thought it was a CRYING emoticon, meaning sadness. Not blithe.

Retro

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

Retrovirus

I'd reiterate: a believer in a God or power greater than himself , cannot by definition account for every action or non action of that being. Being unable to do so does NOT make the believer intellectually dishonest; quite the opposite. - Retro

If you emphasise the word EVERY then I agree with you.

I would stand by my accusation that blithely dismissing the pointless death of a quarter of a million innocent people with the excuse "its a mystery", is intellectual dishonesty.

Hi Cofty,

Why the need for emphasis on "Every"?

The other is semantics. Of course, "it's a mystery" and "cannot account for" mean the same in this context. And PB never "blithely dismissed the pointless death of a quarter of a million innocent people"; those are YOUR words and spin.

Retro

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

Retrovirus

Welcome, Vivane, hadn't relised you were a newbie!

Agreed, presuming that believer were willing to admit that they don't know what their god does or doesn't do and why. Most are quite dogmatic about knowing that, so they don't get the luxury of a "get out jail free" card

Especially true of jws, with that sort of kindly, condescending smile. They have all the answers. . .but they might be different next week

I'm more familiar with more inclusive religions.

cheers, Retro

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

Retrovirus

Hi Viviane,

From Cofty's summary post on p20

I thought a summary might be helpful.

The question is simple. It isn't an attempt to use suffering to prove there is no god. It isn't even about suffering in general.

It is about suffering that is not caused by humans and how theism accounts for it.

So it's not about the details of any person's belief.

I'd reiterate: a believer in a God or power greater than himself , cannot by definition account for every action or non action of that being. Being unable to do so does NOT make the believer intellectually dishonest; quite the opposite.

Retro

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

Retrovirus

cofty, for tomorrow morning, perhaps. ..

.

14. Its a mystery.

Response - No response required. The intellectual dishonesty of faith is self-evident.

I must respectfully disagree with this. Do I need to understand a "God" to have faith in her? Heck, I don't even understand my friends!

8

An Interview with an Apostate: happy@last

by happy@last in

tell us a little about yourself and your family.. born in the 1970s in glasgow, currently married, 2 children in their early teens.

were you a born in or a convert?.

neither, my mother became a jw when i was 7, she was a single parent by this time having divorced my father.. are your parents / family jws?.

Retrovirus

Welcome, Bethel Dark!

18

How would you respond?

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

ok so this is a conversation that i am having with a friend that i really love.

i have some points that i want to say but tell me, how would you respond to this email?.

not gonna try to defend anyone i can really only speak for myself.

Retrovirus

Hi MsGG,

I would say that if God is a wiser and more loving father than our earthly parents, I cannot imaging the He would condemn all his children to oblivion except one small group. A small group, moreover, that admitted to being led by "imperfect men" and issuing false alarms.

Caveat - i'm a never-jw and so don't know how a jw would react to this.

692

abortion vs holocaust

by unstopableravens in

Retrovirus

Well for one, I think I get it.

Make abortions illegal, blame, shame and punish all concerned in such.

Even though you have been repeatedly been shown that this will certainly increase maternal deaths and injuries from backyard abortions and will not reduce unwanted pregnancies.

This is not about saving lives, mothers or babys. this is about imposing your rules on others.