finally my wife and i got around to reading george orwell's " 1984 " .
as many of you know who have read the book that " the party " or " big brother " as the ruling power in the book is called ; constantly changes records of it's past dealings so as to deceive the public about any false forecasts they may have mistakenly made ; in an effort to put forth a positive image of itself it destroys past embarrassing records or paperwork which would expose the " party " as a failure.
much the way the wt society has altered their history to deceive the public and their own members.. notice this quote from george orwell's " 1984 " on pg.
A great book, thanks for the reminder.
Near the start, Winston replaces unfavourable (ungood; even doubleplus ungood) content of a newspaper by writing fiction. Since reading on this site it reminds me of the "Andre" stories and wading through alligator infested swamps to attend meetings. . .
today, cedars had a really good post on a questions from readers article in which the watchtower instructs jws to consult the watchtower library index when they have questions on personal matters.
the watchtower article explained that the branch cannot answer all personal inquiries that come into their offices.
this post got me thinking about an area that i gave a lot of thought to prior to; and after leaving the organization.
I’m certain that Watchtower headquarters is feeling overwhelmed by all of the questions (many of them rather petty, I’m sure) that pour into the service department. I think that the Watchtower leaders fail to realize that this is a monster of their own making.
I'd suggest that even if they did know, they realise that they are painted into a corner. Every time a QFR is answered it must be consistent with all other questions, consistent with the current "light" and preferably fairly sensible or it will get hammered here and on other boards.
The more questions you answer, the harder it gets.
So what they do is - tell the poor jws to use the Bible and their conscience - but reserve the right to smack them if they don't like the result. Brazen behaviour is a useful tool. The result is the wt appears to be less prescriptive - but actually binds jws with more fears of displeasing J.
Now if as a non-jw I've got this all wrong, please let me know.
thanks, Retro
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not much to follow that .... day-umn, life is hard sometimes .... .
feel free to encourage me ... i need it.. .
(((Talesin))) take care of yourself!
i am not a jw nor have i ever been one, but i joined this forum because a close firend of mine is.. we met and became good friends in the senior year of high school, and i didn't know what it meant to be a jw at the time, all i knew was that they were another christian denomination so i let it slide.. .
it was only after sometime after graduation that i began to really take my faith seriousely, and in the process i decided to do some research on watchtower beliefs, and i was actually scared for her.
now i knew enough by now that if i tried to confornt her on this issue, that would be the last i heard of her so i tried as best i could to not "blaspheme".
Hi emanresu,
I'm another non-jw who can't maintain a "normal" relationship with my jw friends. It's like this: they'll talk to you, and be very nice as long as they think there's hope of you converting. Ask one difficult question too many and you become a spiritual danger and they'll back off. On the other hand, if you express interest in the cult and try to get their confidence by not opposing, they'll get over hopeful. and when you cease to "make progress", you'll be avoided more than before.
The only chance I see is, if she'll talk to you at all, is avoid religion as a topic completely. Sometimes new nearly-converts find the religion too restrictive, but they have to come to that understanding on their own.
Retro
would anyone reccomend a good material on .
(1) the history of the world.
(2) the history of religion.. i am just interested in man's development over the years to create gods for himself, any good book would be appreciated, and a review of the book highlighting a short summary is also welcome..
Hi Mankkeli
Here's an oldie but goodie - The Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer. At 858 pages it's a big read, but it certainly kept me turning the pages. Frazer is a good scholar and you'll appreciate the difference between his extensive and painstaking research and what the wt calls research. Whether or not you agree with his conclusions you'll learn a lot about rites, mythology and the history of religions.
Summary from Wiki:
The Golden Bough attempts to define the shared elements of religious belief. Its thesis is that old religions were fertility cults that revolved around the worship of, and periodic sacrifice of, a sacred king.
This king was the incarnation of a dying and reviving god, a solar deity who underwent a mystic marriage to a goddess of the Earth, who died at the harvest, and was reincarnated in the spring. Frazer claims that this legend is central to almost all of the world's mythologies.
The germ for Frazer's thesis was the pre-Roman priest-king at the fane of Nemi, who was murdered ritually by his successor:
The book's title was taken from an incident in the Aeneid, illustrated by the British artist Joseph Mallord William Turner: Aeneas and the Sibyl present the golden bough to the gatekeeper of Hades in order to gain admission.
the tribulation was not specifically covered in my "bible studies".
but the main "teacher" several times said how she prayed for strength that she would remain true to jehovah when she was tested "in the persecutions".. so, i understand that there has to be some sort of tribulation and persecution of the faithful before armageddon.
why i'm confused is that every stock market dip, new virus or extreme weather event is hailed as the beginning.
Thank you all for your replies and helpful information.
@Bigmouth - so the tribulation is the start of Armageddon? And yes, I'd noticed the masochism. Once I asked my "study conductor" a bit skeptically "so the bird flu could be the beginning? . . and GFC could?" and she replied eagerly, "yes, any of them could!"
@Wobble Thanks. I realised the wt "literature" was nonsense because I have a science degree, but I know very little about the Bible and interpretations
@Vanderhoven7 I'm sure you are right, that they happened in the first century.
@Blondie Thanks, that is very clear! So, a call that 'peace and security' have been achieved; then a UN-lead attack on all religions other than jws, then Satan or Gog attacks jws and finally, just in time, Armageddon. Then there's no reason to suppose that any natural or man-made crisis signals Armageddon since no-one is claiming that peace and security have been achieved, nor is there a world-wide attack on religion. It must be hard for jws to really believe it's all about to happen. . .
@transuman68
@TheyCantDoATingMan Thanks, that's what I was trying to say in the OP, agree entirely!
@clarity - Bastards indeed! It's sad to see people so convinced by something so illogical!
Retro
the tribulation was not specifically covered in my "bible studies".
but the main "teacher" several times said how she prayed for strength that she would remain true to jehovah when she was tested "in the persecutions".. so, i understand that there has to be some sort of tribulation and persecution of the faithful before armageddon.
why i'm confused is that every stock market dip, new virus or extreme weather event is hailed as the beginning.
The tribulation was not specifically covered in my "Bible studies". But the main "teacher" several times said how she prayed for strength that she would remain true to Jehovah when she was tested "in the persecutions".
So, I understand that there has to be some sort of tribulation and persecution of the faithful before Armageddon. Have I got that right?
Why I'm confused is that every stock market dip, new virus or extreme weather event is hailed as the beginning. But didn't the Bible say not to be alarmed at such things? Seems to me that the only trustworthy sign would be this tribulation.
So would it need to be global? Take any particular form? Any information would be appreciated.
thanks, Retro
i never found a victim and then i was out.
may i ask you how it felt to have the umbrage to go to someone's house, bring a bible, and witness lit, and teach another person about the bible.
the witness lit was always so dorky.
Hi BotR (or M?)
I'm a non-jw and so can only give you the "other side" perspective.
I'd never asked for a Bible study. My ex-SIL asked people from my local congregation to approach me because I was "interested". In fact, I was just keeping communication lines open with her, we exchanged letters every couple of months.
So these two very pleasant ladies came and mentioned SIL's name, and offered to answer any questions. Silly me, I set a time with them.
When they returned, full of friendly and warm chat, they brought the "Really Teach" booklet. They wanted to say a prayer, and very nicely made me aware that I would not contribute or take it in turns. Gentle disapproval when I declined the suggestion to "go through the book and answer the questions". Absolutely, the literature was dorky. But neither lady thought so; they were so certain, and I didn't want to upset them.
As allelsefails said, there was much looking up of the Bible. but only the verse that was referenced.
I felt the jw ladies were doing me a favour, and in hindsight, they encouraged me to think so. When I asked difficult questions, they brought their computer and the DVD. Eventually my lack of progress and refusal to attend meetings or conventions brought things to a halt.
Nor have I heard from my SIL since I "failed" the study. . . ah, well.
L.
i was discussing with an elder today, and as usual the conversation drifted towards apostates and their line of reasoning, he angrily looked into my eyes with the scriptures in his hand and told me:.
(1) that apostates are destructive peddlers who shut the door of everlasting life on people as they are very sure they have no portion in there.
he quoted matt 23:13- 13 woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites!
and they are going arround, looking for gullible ones who are seeking the kingdom with honest heart
But that's not what apostates do. . .it is exactly what believing jws do!
"followed dreams reaching higher.....couldn't survive the fall".
so the lyrics of one of my favorite bands say.. .
so i'm about to turn 27 and thanks to the good ol wt teachings of how this evil system of things is trying to corrupt us with satan's higher education, now i'm stuck in a 100+ degree warehouse making crap money handling and shipping heavy packages while following bizarre rules the boss has.
fade-away, from my perspective you are a kid, and the world is yours for the taking!
Work out your career plan like a project - objective, costs, benefit over time, risks and mitigation, other issues. That will show you if it's worth the time and money invested.
If it looks promising, it will also help get your wife on board. Ultimately she stands to benefit as well if you are happy and earning enough.
If it doesn't stack up, consider Plan B; what other work could you enjoy that needs less education and/or pays better? I know there's a huge demand for network professionals here and you could get some training in electronics.
It's your life, take charge and let the regrets go bury themselves (but it took me long enough to work that out )
