Posts by saltyoldlady

25

Did anyone on this site claim to be of the annointed?

by still thinking in

just curious, because i'm trying to get my head around what makes someone think they were annointed?

and then, if they left, what made them realise they weren't?

and how did you feel about discovering that.. i read crisis of concience and that was a real turning point for me, i don't think there is any going back to old thought processess after that.

saltyoldlady

Peaches 1978 - Yes indeed, I was continually grieved about ever so many things while I was inside the WTS - gut feelings as well as actual observations and logical conclusions from reading the material being offered - and sometimes several of us who partook would gather together - we enjoyed one another's support because it was a lonely position in the congregations - many went thru real suffering and abuse because of their partaking - so we buoyed one another up - but whenever we did get together inevitably the conversation would turn to all the things that needed fixing and corrected and when would Jehovah take action against the organization - how far could it go? We were very open in our expressions of dis-satisfaction about the WTS which was also refreshing because in the congregation one was so careful to be "circumspect" about everthing said. We had no fear amongst ourselves. And serious concern. In fact recently one of the brothers who is still within the WTS but also partakes paid me a visit and related he felt Jehovah had communicated to him that He is very displeased with what is going on in the leadership but I couldn't succeed at prying out of him any specifics or particulars.

His visit was mainly to try and convince me to come back - he worries that I will be destroyed because I left. In their private discussions he said everyone felt that my leaving was "curtains" for me - that I was "finished" - he knew me well enough to realize I hadn't turned my back on Jehovah or left the love I had for the scriptures. So he is quite puzzled and not sure what to make of it. But he did admit that they are all as a group concerned about the "gestapo" atmosphere and many of the recent changes that are not spiritually refreshing plus lack of deep spiritual food. But he still has faith that when Armageddon comes our instructions for survival will come thru the WTS and he is so worried I won't be receiving them. I shake my head in sadness that he has those blinders on and is unable to see the fact Jehovah is not limited to any man's organization or institution. It is true Jehovah used men in the past like Moses to lead His people but He also gave Moses abundant authoritative backup and proof of his divine calling - I fail to see the same for the WTS today - they have gotten the message out to a large audience and grown into a mighty publishing machine and Jehovah can and has used that for His own purposes I believe - but it doesn't cancel out all the wrongs and error they keep on perpetrating either. All I can say is the future will be interesting to watch unfold.

To Lozhasleft - No I never discovered any PM's from you - I had two from Zid and managed to retrieve and read those. But I cannot find yours - perhaps after they get so old they are removed? Anyway yes - I partake by myself here at home. Have not joined any other church - I do take part in an Interdenominational Bible Study Group and they are talking about celebrating the Lord's Evening Meal as a group - have not decided whether to participate in that or not - it will probably not be on the correct date or even with the correct materials and frankly between you and I, I don't think the WTS even has the date calculated correctly. I went ahead and partook on Friday evening of March 18th this year - because the first full moon after the spring equinox was the 19th and the best I can learn about the Barley harvest being fully ripe - that is not even considered a legitimate requirement by the Jews. NASA Solar Observatory indicated the spring equinox occurred on March 13th per the partial solar eclipse. I chose the evening of the 18th because at sundown that actually becomes the next day - old Jewish time thing - sundown to sundown. Truth is I do not believe Jehovah is that particular or legalistic about these things - he reads the hearts - but I still like to get it right - 30 plus years of indoctrination showing. And He will forgive me if I got it wrong or permit me to celebrate the meal again next month. In fact He didn't put any limit on how often we could observe it. Isn't it nice not to have to be so hidebound with nit-picking details anymore? But I still feel pretty strongly about using unsulphured wine and unfermented bread - some of those in my Bible Class are happy with unfermented Welch's Grape Juice and commerical white bread cut up in little squares. If that was all I had available I guess I'd make do that way too with a prayer of apology to Jehovah on my breath though. But what really counts with Him is the heart per my views. And I'll happily welcome correction if you think I need it.

79

Why I no longer believe the Bible is "God's Word" and I no longer believe in "God"

by lifeisgood in

jw
friends

i became a christain at the age of 9. not by going to a church or asking a preacher to baptize me, or anything like that.

i started reading my mother's king james bible cover to cover at the age of 8. my father was very abusive and when he was abusing me, i would close my eyes and pray.

i never hated my father, which is one good thing i got out of prayer.. when i turned 13 i became a lay preacher and traveled, on my own, preaching in any church that would let me.. when i was 15 i studied with the jws and was baptized after four months of study.. i was a zealous christain but not a zealous jw, according to them.

saltyoldlady

Dear Life is Good - I offer my humble apologies for misunderstanding and misinterpreting your reasons for the conclusions you found. You leave me totally puzzled and I wished I did have answers - good ones - to offer. But at the moment I don't.

25

Did anyone on this site claim to be of the annointed?

by still thinking in

just curious, because i'm trying to get my head around what makes someone think they were annointed?

and then, if they left, what made them realise they weren't?

and how did you feel about discovering that.. i read crisis of concience and that was a real turning point for me, i don't think there is any going back to old thought processess after that.

saltyoldlady

Hi Still Thinking - I partook of the emblems while in the WTS organization - began partaking in 1989 but actually realized I needed to do so a couple years prior. In fact I received my witness in the early 80's but it took me a long time "to get it" - to comprehend that I should indeed partake of the emblems. I did not go about asking anyone else any questions on the matter - I knew they would think I had lost my mind so just kept it to myself and my conversations with Jehovah in prayer. And He kept prodding me along.

As far as your wanting to know how one determines such a thing I understand your curiosity. In conversation with others that have partaken they often share their stories and I know one sister who even has made it her hobby to go about collecting these experiences. It seems no two of them have the exact same experience and last I heard she had gathered about 40 some (and no that sister is not me) - I have never met anyone else that had the experience I had in person though I saw reference to such in one old WT article - a first person story of an old brother in Germany - but without my experience one would not have realized he was revealing the fact he too was anointed.

So even though it all sounds very mysterious and difficult to explain these individuals have each come to the conclusion they are supposed to partake of the emblems in their own unique ways. If I were to list all the various ways I have heard the first impression would be to just discount them and consider each of the inviduals as "mad, mentally deranged, or odd" but in most if not all the cases I know of, none of the individuals were searching or desiring to be of the heavenly class - All that I knew including myself felt quite unworthy of such a position and lacked any comprehension of "why me?" The experiences included things like "just a sudden overwhelming consciousness - a spiritual awakening that quickened their mind to realization of the need to partake," or another expressed the fact that they had heard a sudden whoshing sound in their ears and they suddenly knew - think I heard of a couple of people that had that experience, and a couple more had this experience of being in a dark tunnel and coming out into the light at the end of it - almost like a near-death experience, one guy's wife was told in a dream or something, one had an experience of a vision - a large eagle appeared to them so real they tried to wake up their mate to see it too but the mate just wouldn't waken so they decided to get up and walk over to it and touch it - no fear involved apparently, but when they started to do so it just faded, another saw a figure of a man holding a baby lamb - and this overwhelming conviction of God's love came upon them plus an amazing array, flashback style of all their sins that had been forgiven, others said a certain scripture just popped out at them like the ones in Chapter 8 of Romans, and so forth and so forth. Some had the strange experience of other people asking them - a series of people in a short time period - if they were of the heavenly group without any logical reasons for the question, and one had a sister make a big point in the Book Study Group discussion that it was sinful not to partake if one had been called when she had no cognizance whatsoever that there was indeed someone present that had been called but who had not yet proclaimed their calling. You may ridicule these things if you like but I would advise against it. I believe they were manifestations of Holy Spirit. No one described seeing a tongue of fire over their heads like described in the Book of Acts, however.

But your next question - wondering how they felt when they left the WTS and discovered they were no longer one - makes an assumption that just doesn't seem to hold true - at least not for myself. I do not believe this calling is limited to just the WTS anymore than I believe my salvation is dependent upon being part of the WTS or that it plays the mediator role for mankind today. I still partake of the emblems but not at the Kingdom Hall obviously since I have become formally disassociated. But it does bring up some important questions to which I do not have answers - if the anointing were restricted to only 144,000 individuals that class would have had to be filled way back in the first century. There is just no way there have been only 144,000 spirit begotten Christians up until now - no way. And although at the time I was within the WTS I believed in the two classes - the heavenly and earthly - and thought it very logical - in fact I still believe there will be earthly members of the Kingdom - it now appears to me the invitation to partake of the emblems is actually open to all believers and there should not be a division being made such as is being done in the WTS. That it is actually a disrespect to the emblems to just pass them around and forbid most to partake. I guess in truth no one is forbidden but the implications and social pressures are such that the great majority do not partake. But I did not come to this opinion until after leaving the WTS so that was not what influenced my decision to partake. Since in truth it makes no difference whether one is or is not of the heavenly class in everyday matters for the WTS I really see no reason they stay with that procedure and believe they are in error to do so. They are creating "class distinctions" among themselves for so doing. The only place I know of that it makes any difference is it is considered necessary to serve on their GB and probably a personal question of the individuals being selected or considered would serve their purposes just as well.

The Scripture Ephesians 4:4-6 comes to mind - One body there is, and one spirit, even as you were called IN THE ONE HOPE to which you were called, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all persons, who is over all and through all and in all. Notice it says ONE HOPE - the WTS has created two hopes and in so doing they have also denied a large portion of the scriptures from their flock by making them feel it doesn't apply to them. This is serious business and wrong. What God determines He wishes my place to be will always be satisfactory to me - I do not have to be in the TOP ECHELON - where He places me will bring me happiness. Of that I am convinced and whatever He decides will be the right decision - so if you feel I am not of the 144,000 you may be quite right - at this point I simply leave that matter up to Him. He is the One who really knows and the only One who needs to know.

79

Why I no longer believe the Bible is "God's Word" and I no longer believe in "God"

by lifeisgood in

jw
friends

i became a christain at the age of 9. not by going to a church or asking a preacher to baptize me, or anything like that.

i started reading my mother's king james bible cover to cover at the age of 8. my father was very abusive and when he was abusing me, i would close my eyes and pray.

i never hated my father, which is one good thing i got out of prayer.. when i turned 13 i became a lay preacher and traveled, on my own, preaching in any church that would let me.. when i was 15 i studied with the jws and was baptized after four months of study.. i was a zealous christain but not a zealous jw, according to them.

saltyoldlady

Dear Life is Good. Your part about helping the older sister was magnificent. Wish I had been there. How often things like this need to be done and said and I heartily applaud your actions.

Sometimes the conclusions we reach are the results of our purpose for the study and research - My conclusions are very different from yours and so I have to ask myself why? I guess it all boils down to the fact God has given me a gift of faith - a tiny seed smaller than a mustard grain, but enough to move mountains. I don't know why or how I got it - certainly not because the world has treated me any better than yourself - but I search the pages of the Bible looking for His love and I find it. Yes, there are questions that come up as to why He did things the way He did but I start out with a premise that He is good, and righteous and kind - and I end up with totally different conclusions as a result.

Perhaps the Bible is simply a document that yields what we desire from it's pages - perhaps it is simply man's imagination and myth - but for me it feeds me, strengthens me, yields purpose and meaning to my life, and comforts me. Am I living the great illusion then? That is a possibility. But it doesn't feel like it. My world seems very real to me. My desire is to reflect His love in the here and now as best I can - and if we merge into a great "immaterial" universe of love after death I'm okay with that. But your conclusions that God does not intereact with us in the here and now are so different from my own admittedly "subjective" experiences I feel saddened at my inability to share this joy with you.

Perhaps you prefer the "impersonality" of God as a mindset. Maybe our differences boil down to "ruthers" and maybe not. My experience has been God cannot be proven to anyone - He has to be searched for - and when you find Him never let Him go!!!

38

Do you get hassled for posting here frequently?

by sabastious in

jw
friends

most people in my life that know how frequent i post on this forum find it very troubling.

i have often been accused of "not being able to let go.

" i don't agree that i post here because i'm not willing to let go, i think i post here because i think this place helps other people and i want to be part of it.

saltyoldlady

To Headspinning - great post! I do think the need for "group" activity is one that has been the hardest for me to overcome. The longing to be "part" of something is still hanging on with me. We are a very divergent group however - hardly what one might describe as a place of security if one happens on some of the more bitter among us - but I see much of the same humor and name-calling sport amongst my teenage grandchildren and am learning to mellow out - not get so quickly offended.

43

Have you ever felt an earthquake?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

personally, i have never felt an earthquake in my life.

.

saltyoldlady

Earthquakes - are a regular feature of living in Seattle - first one I remember was '49 - we ran outside (not a smart thing to do they say but it's instinct to get out of the building one is in - and that instinct is strong) then we stood huddled together with the next door neighbor as we watched the ground swell like a tidal wave under our feet going from north to south and I happened to look out in the Puget Sound and sure enough there was a huge wave - rolling motion that just kept coming and coming - my fear at that moment was when will the earth open and swallow me up - age 14! We must have rolled for several seconds - up and then back down - and then up - and then back down - seemed like an eternity at the time.

In '65 we had another duzer - but this time I was in the front yard - already outside working on the flower beds - my dog gave it a comic aspect as he ran around to the back of the house barking like crazy to tell whomever it was to quit shaking things up - he never succeeded at finding the source but am sure he thought his barking stint was most effective as it did stop after enough commands from him

Then we had some little ones - in 94 and 95 - the first in 94 I was hanging up clothes when I noticed all six of my kitties sitting around me in a semi circle - had time to think now this is strange behavior - have never seen them do this before - and then it began - swaying, clinking and clanking the lamps, china, glassware, books falling off shelves. We survived. The next in 95 was at the Kingdom Hall - in the Theocratic Service Meeting - people began to run for the door and I found myself barking orders to them to stay put in their seats - really strange behavior for meek mild little me - but even the elders obeyed me. LOL. And that time I really had no fear - maybe I thought we were all safe inside Jehovah's Ark - but I also knew we had telephone and electric wiring poles outside adjacent to the parking lot that could be major danger sources - wooden poles planted in earth topple rather easily and quickly. This one didn't last so long and was milder than those first two I described which were up in the 6 and 7 range as I recall.

Then in 2001 we got a real one - maybe by now I have become ho hum about them because I refused to get excited or try evacuating the store - was shopping for sweet pea seeds with my neighbor and I wasn't about to be deterred from my project. She took hold of my sleeve and pulled me out - I had the seed packet in my hand and kept insisting I had to pay for them - of course there were no clerks at the register - they had already left - shelves of store goods were crashing around us and it finally hit home with me maybe we would be better outside. So I joined the little huddle of people out in the parking lot still clutching my precious seeds - and then remarked there is something wrong with me - I am dizzy - they howled with laughter at me as they informed me the earthquake was still going on - the ground felt like we were standing on a pile of jello pudding - we were in the Puyallup Valley River Basin where the soil is mainly made up of river silt. Has a tendency to reverberate and vibrate to the rumbling. This one was a looong one - seemed like 15 minutes to me but think it was actually only a couple minutes long. And yes I did pay for those seeds but it took me forever to convince the checkout clerk it was safe to return to her spot and take care of me. And my neighbor never quit teasing me about what a numbskull I am -

They say Seattle had a 9.0 on Jan 26th of 1700 whose epicenter was shallow and right under the current sports arena - and that we are due for another in a 300 to 500 year time range. The 300 years time range has expired so it's a bit like waiting for Armageddon.............any day now plus or minus a couple hundred years.

Birkman who has been very successful at predicting earthquakes in the past had some interesting comments on the website extinctionprotocol:2012 and beyond and I've found their free emails of current earthquakes, volcano's, strange happenings in weather, solar flares, massive fish kills, whale beachings, birds dropping out of the sky dead, etc. most fascinating - they don't feed you with a lot of religious garbage like the 2012 feature might indicate but keep it pretty scientific. It's a paradise for any doomsday afficiando.

19

I have to tell you

by mouthy in

jw
friends

there are some wonderful folks reading this site.. so many wonderful jws( doubters ...but reading).

also there are folks on here who know it is a cult... one of them just called me...( wont say who ,as is fading).. but encouraged me so very much,thank you thank you thankyou.

i always go back to my post & i seem .

saltyoldlady

Beautifully put, Mouthy - Beautifully put. It is the exact truth of the situation.

30

POLL/SURVEY- Why Did You Leave The Organization of JW's?

by PublishingCult in

why did you leave the organization of jehovah's witnesses, and/or why are you contemplating leaving the organization of jehovah's witnesses?.

i've tried to boil it down to the most likely answers based on all the reasons i have heard over the years from xjw's.

a. because the watchtower bible & tract society does not have the truth.. b. because i had a personality conflict with other members of the organization.. c. because i discovered that the wtbts was not being honest or forthcoming about its history.. d. because serving jehovah was too difficult and i just wanted to be worldly and do wicked things.. e. because the governing body of jehovah's witnesses have proved to be false prophets.. f. because i found just cause to disagree with erroneous jw teachings.. g. because the governing body and/or elders were hypocritical.

saltyoldlady

Outlaw - where do you dig up these pictures? That is one aweful eyeful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

30

POLL/SURVEY- Why Did You Leave The Organization of JW's?

by PublishingCult in

why did you leave the organization of jehovah's witnesses, and/or why are you contemplating leaving the organization of jehovah's witnesses?.

i've tried to boil it down to the most likely answers based on all the reasons i have heard over the years from xjw's.

a. because the watchtower bible & tract society does not have the truth.. b. because i had a personality conflict with other members of the organization.. c. because i discovered that the wtbts was not being honest or forthcoming about its history.. d. because serving jehovah was too difficult and i just wanted to be worldly and do wicked things.. e. because the governing body of jehovah's witnesses have proved to be false prophets.. f. because i found just cause to disagree with erroneous jw teachings.. g. because the governing body and/or elders were hypocritical.

saltyoldlady

Because I fell short on love - love for the WTS - just realized that fits my acronym for my name too - SOL - Short On Love or another way to put it - So Out of Love with the WTS - So Out of Luck - sorry guys, I just couldn't stop.

But nearly all of the reasons applied except for wanting to be wicked and being tired of trying. My defection began with the chronology issue issue but grew bigger and bigger - in fact mushroomed with disagreements on basic doctrines like Christ's ransom sacrifice not being available for all and the withholding of the emblems from the Great Crowd.

21

Book of Mormon vs The Bible, which one should I choose?

by cyberjesus in

2 jdubs were at my door yesterday... so one of the questions i asked them and now i ask you is this.. why should i believe the bible is the gods word?

if i put on the table the book of mormon and the bible side by side what will be the criteria to decide which one is gods word?.

this is what the book of mormon says in 2 nephi 33:1.

saltyoldlady

I could never get past the fact that the angel was called Moron with an i at the end. (I am the Great Moron, I am, I am.) Forgive my irreverence, the evil devil got into me.

The other day I read a quote by George Washington Carver that said "Love anything enough and it will speak to you." The more I read the Bible the more I desire to read it and the more I come to love it. It DOES speak to me - but this is a subjective thing impossible to pass on to anyone else. All one can do is urge them to try it.