Posts by Quendi

22

Seeking Reinstatement

by Quendi in

no, i'm not seeking to be reinstated so don't worry.

but i did want to raise a point in relation to this.

i know this was true in my case and i've seen it in others i have talked to about this.

No, I'm not seeking to be reinstated so don't worry. But I did want to raise a point in relation to this. I know this was true in my case and I've seen it in others I have talked to about this. But have you noticed that when people talk about the reasons they are seeking reinstatement or why others who are disfellowshipped or disassociated should the reasons are to freely associate with their friends and families again or to dodge death at Armageddon or eternal damnation in Gehenna's basement? I know those were my reasons for wanting reinstatement before I woke up and walked away for good. And have you also noticed that love for God and Christ are very seldom mentioned as reasons? In the overwhelming majority of cases, that love isn't mentioned at all! And certainly, when questioned by a judicial committee, the applicant isn't asked how much love for God has motivated him or her to seek reinstatement. All the committee wants to know is if repentance has been shown, does the sinner accept the WTS as the sole channel of divine communication with mankind, and will the applicant grovel at the committee's feet. For me, this is just one more proof that the WTS is certainly not "Jehovah's organization".

Quendi

73

C.O. Jonsson's response to Watchtower's latest 607 articles

by wannabefree in

http://kristenfrihet.se/vtsvar/vtsvar1.pdf.

(thanks to augustin for bringing this to our attention in another thread.

).

Quendi

There is still another very important point that most have skipped over in this discussion about 607 BC being the date for Jerusalem's first destruction and I think it bears repeating and emphasizing. Nowhere, NOWHERE, will you find the number 2,520 mentioned in the Bible, particularly in the book of Daniel. What makes this more remarkable is the fact that Daniel does contain some very specific numbers: 70; 1,290; 1,335;, and 2,300. This is a major point. If the number 2,520 was so important for the calculation of the length of the Gentile Times by the WTS and others (for C.T. Russell wasn't the only one who taught this), why is it not explicitly stated anywhere?

In that sense, then, the date of Jerusalem's destruction by the Babylonians is inconsequential because no link can be established between it and the length of the "times of the nations" in Luke 21:24. Christ himself makes no such connection between his statement and Daniel's words. Furthermore, when Christ does mention Daniel in the great Olivet prophecy, the reference is certainly not to the tree-dream Nebuchadnezzar had and Daniel interpreted. If the tree-dream was so vital to understanding when to expect the kingdom to come, then why is it that neither Christ nor the New Testament writers ever reference it? They pass over it in complete silence.

Another point to keep in mind is this. Daniel plainly, simply and explicitly states that the tree is Nebuchadnezzar and the prophecy's fulfillment will come entirely upon him. That was his understanding when he gives the interpretation and it was still his belief decades later. On the night of Babylon's fall to the Medes and Persians Daniel reminds Belshazzar of what had happened to Nebuchadnezzar in fulfillment of the prophecy. --Daniel 4:20-22; 5:18-21

Charles Russell believed that this prophecy had a "double application". He was not the only one to think so and from this premise there arose the elaborate calculations of what to expect in the twentieth century and when they would occur. The Bible Students weren't the only group looking for great things to happen in 1914. They were merely the loudest proclaimers of this belief. But the expectations they had as well as others depended on the dispensationalist teaching that Daniel 4 had a second fulfillment and the number 2,520 figured most importantly in this. Determining that 1914 would see Armageddon was a direct result.

Some have suggested that perhaps the WTS is trying to back away from 1914 because the two Watchtower articles which discuss the year of Jerusalem's destruction make no reference to it. I disagree with this idea. If that were the case, why bring up the subject at all? Obviously, the Governing Body and the WTS are getting a lot of questions about the legitimacy of the date, especially with 2014 looming on the horizon. As a matter of fact, the October piece states that the article is a response to a reader's question. The only reason to discuss the year of Jerusalem's destruction is to validate 1914 as the start of the last days. That is the cornerstone teaching of this religion. Take that away, and the whole structure will collapse. I wouldn't be surprised to see future articles build on what these two have tried to establish and underline the belief that the last days began in 1914 and Armageddon's arrival must be very close at hand.

Quendi

42

January 2012 WT Study edition on PDF pulled from JW.org website

by bnybyt in

the wt study edition is getting a facelift for the new year.. the january issue had been posted on jw.org but.... the boes hadn't received notice by letter of such a change.. the wts likes to play up every opportunity to have a new release.. this time the jw.org techies jumped the gun and went on to post.

the issues for download according to their established schedule.. unfortunately, they went ahead of the fds/gb who too late .

realized the cat was out of the bag, sort of saying.. well, it got pulled off the website, for now at least.. what's so secretive about it?.

Quendi

I'll have to disagree with my friends TimothyT and bnybyt about having a simplified English version of The Watchtower study articles. You don't dumb down. Instead, you encourage your readership to elevate its own learning and reading comprehension. Jesus didn't use dumbed down language to teach. The speech Paul made to the Areopagus in Acts 17 was a masterpiece, and it wasn't delivered in the language of some eight year old. No, you tell your readers that investing in a dictionary and thesaurus is a good thing and they'll be all the better off when they expand their vocabularies.

Dumbing down WTS literature didn't start with simplified English versions of The Watchtower. Veteran Witnesses will tell you that there is a world of difference between the textbooks used in the Theocratic Ministry School with the old pocket-sized one much more sophisticated in language and teaching style than the current one. Jehovah's Witnesses have always prided themselves on having high standards of reading, writing, and speaking. These latest moves show that the organization no longer values these skills. Considering how other parts of the Witness cosmos are also decaying, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by these developments.

Quendi

10

Timothy T: The Anointed and Me

by compound complex in

jw
friends

i have never had any personal help from a member of the fds apart from what i read in the literature... which was very little because id rather read the bible.

even as a jw, if i had any encouragement it came from the elders or the bible.

they were the ones that did the hard work and cared.

Quendi

My experience parallels CoCo's. I had been associated with Jehovah's Witnesses one way or the other since my first contact in 1968. I remember the teachings CoCo cited. I also remember working with those who professed to be of the anointed back in the 1970s. My experience with them was a heart-warming one. I talked to men who had become Witnesses back in the 1920s and earlier. They were kind, humble, loving, readers of the Bible, and lovers of both God and Christ. They never talked about how special they were to be of the anointed. In fact, they hardly ever mentioned it and I learned of their status from others.

As the years went by and more and more professed to be anointed, I noticed a distinct change in personality type. These newly minted anointed ones were nothing like those of the "Naomi" and "Ruth" as well as the "Mordecai" and "Esther" classes I had known in my earlier years. Some were braggarts who made certain that you knew you were in the presence of one of the future kings of the earth. They talked about this constantly, and I was more than uncomfortable whenever I was with one of them.

Now that I have left the organization I have been thinking long and hard about my beliefs and reading the Bible more. I still believe there were two distinct callings for Christians: a heavenly one for those who would serve as kings and priests, and an earthly one for all others as well as people who never embraced Christianity. But I have also taken up many preterist teachings, so that means that I believe all of Christ's bride were called, chosen, and glorified in the first century, and there have been no callings to this life since then. I don't expect others to agree with me. I am merely stating my own thinking on this question.

Has the organization undergone substantial changes from the time I first associated with it? Absolutely, and those changes have not been improvements. It's not just the list of rules and regulations growing longer that has been the most disturbing. Rather it has been the drive for blanket control over the lives of all of Jehovah's Witnesses that I have found most disgusting. This has been done slowly and subtly with the membership being unaware of its manipulation by power hungry men who have no love for God and man as their motivation.

The years have gone by and our hopes have not been realized. But instead of courageously and humbly admitting how wrong its understanding of the Bible is now and indeed has always been, the Governing Body is hellbent on maintaining its control no matter what the cost to itself and the religion's membership. I don't know how much longer this situation will continue, but I do believe that an implosion is inevitable. May I live to see it and rescue my loved ones from its rubble!

Quendi

31

Governing Body arrogance vs. Legal Department's pragmatism - do you think there will be a slip-up at some point?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

the recent & surprising developments in the uk and australia got me thinking..... the governing body of jehovah's witnesses is nothing if not arrogant.

they consider themselves "god's channel of communication", stopping just short of claiming divine inspiration.

they believe that they and they alone are the masters of "christ's belongings" and are answerable only to him.. the watchtower society's legal department carefully crafts gb decisions so as not to put the watchtower society's assets or prestige as risk.

Quendi

As always, I appreciate your feedback, flipper. I see what you're saying about the blood issue, the pedophile problem and related subjects and I agree with you. I suppose that what I should have written was that the Governing Body will brook no counseling from others about Bible interpretation. Yes, the blood issue is a matter of Bible interpretation and they have been doing a slow retreat on that one. That would be an exception to the rule. But I think in other areas of Bible doctrine, the Governing Body stands firm. It may be a matter of the Governing Body and the Legal Department seeing themselves as good partners in the business, each with its own realm of responsibility. When there are overlapping issues, I think you are right to suggest that they cooperate rather than conflict with each other.

Quendi

19

I want to be a Jehovah's Witness again...

by TimothyT in

... so i can flippin help tear it down from the inside!.

Quendi

The great baseball pitcher Satchell Page once said, "Don't look back; something might be gaining on you." That is good advice, TimothyT, and I am sure you will follow it. Many of us have been where you are now and have moved on to better things. Living well is the best revenge as PSacramento reminds us, and that is what all of us want for you and yours as we strive to do the same ourselves.

For my part, I rejoice that I do not ever have to set foot in a Kingdom Hall again. While I also have friends and family trapped inside this detestable cult that I earnestly want to leave it, I know that is a choice they must make for themselves. I can only make myself available to them if and when they ask for my help. Now that I am out, I can see what the old Irish blessing says. "May the road rise before you. May the sun be in your face and the wind at your back. May the rain fall softly on your fields; and until we meet again may God hold you in the palm of his hand." It doesn't get any better than that.

Quendi

36

Cold Fusion Update

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://coldfusionnow.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/first-commercial-cold-fusion-reactor-tested-in-bologna/.

i continue to think that this device has survived too much examination to be completely fake.

the remaining question is how efficient is it?.

Quendi

bookmarked

45

Did You Ever Make the Pilgrimage?

by Quendi in

jw
friends

how many of you have ever visited one of the branch offices or world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses?

i was an active witness for nearly thirty years and was associated with the cult for more than thirty-five before finally walking away for good last year.

during all those years i never made a trip to brooklyn bethel.

Quendi

Many thanks to all of you for your comments and recommendations. I see nothing wrong with visiting sacred places as repositories of art, examples of architecture, and sites of religious history. The book which Meeting Junkie No More likes seems to be a good one. Let me recommend a similar book. It is called Sacred Places of a Lifetime: 500 of the World's Most Peaceful and Powerful Destinations and is published by the National Geographic Society. I recommend it for anyone with an interest in places of this nature.

I suppose that what I have found interesting about this topic is the usual contradictory and hypocritical stance the WTS takes on it. Back in the 1970s, Awake! carried a story about touring the Vatican. While conceding the existence of magnificent works of art, rare books and manuscripts, and incredible architecture, the anonymous writer then condemned the Roman Catholic Church for maintaining its headquarters in this fashion by saying the emphasis was on material things and not spiritual matters. It also took a swipe at the Sistine Chapel for all the nude figures Michelangelo painted on its ceiling saying these appealed to prurient interests. Years later, the painting of Jehu riding to the slaughter of Baal worshipers that is in the Jersey City Assembly Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses got no such censure for its graphic nature. Ah, well!

I think that what I have found most annoying about the whole thing is the Society's insistence that visitors come dressed in their "Sunday's best." I completely agree with aig 1052 that this is a turnoff. Why should anyone dress up to tour a factory complex? I was also amused by those like designs who said that their Bethel tour convinced them that they did not want to work, live, and serve there. The dress requirement proves that regardless of what it says, the Society does view its branch offices as "sacred ground" and demands that visitors pay visible homage to this. And LongHairGal is right to say that the distinction between the WTS and the religions of Christendom has become blurred.

Quendi

73

C.O. Jonsson's response to Watchtower's latest 607 articles

by wannabefree in

http://kristenfrihet.se/vtsvar/vtsvar1.pdf.

(thanks to augustin for bringing this to our attention in another thread.

).

Quendi

I have downloaded the pdf and distributed it to my own small Bible study group of ex-JWs. I am eager to read the second part of the series. The sad thing is this article will have little impact on rank and file Witnesses who have been told that they should only visit WTS-approved websites. Most have never heard of Jonsson's book The Gentile Times Reconsidered unless they have read Ray Franz or Don Cameron. This work, as well as Doug Mason's refutation, will likely get the silent treatment from the Governing Body as well. Calling attention to the material by attacking it by title or author will only direct the curious and questioning to it. That is something the WTS is determined to prevent at all costs.

The Governing Body is feeling the heat. With the critical year 2014 looming on the horizon, they have apparently decided to launch a "preemptive strike" against critics of its cornerstone teaching. We will probably see more articles like two published in the October 1 and November 1 Watchtower magazines with the hope that by shouting loud enough the voices of critics will be drowned out and the tight control over the membership will be maintained. We should also expect more dire warnings against apostates and the Internet as the organization tries to restrict the flow of information. If it should fail, then the collapse we've all been hoping for might arrive sooner rather than later.

Quendi

25

So why did the organisation cause you anxiety or depression?

by TimothyT in

in regards to my other post regarding attending counselling as a jw, i was wondering what it was about being a jw that caused you to be anxious, stressed or depressed?.

for me, i knew that the person i wanted to be was constantly being supressed by the wt.

there was a battle going on in my head between who i wanted to be and who they wanted me to be.

Quendi

That is a really deep question, Randy and one that deserves a thoughtful answer from me. I can't speak for others, of course, and I know you are not expecting that. I will try to relate my own case without becoming maudlin.

My best friend Tom and I were extremely close, so close it was uncanny. We had a kind of mental and emotional resonance that has been observed in identical twins. Mutual friends said they could almost see the electricity flowing between us. So his suicide was a great trauma for me to suffer even though I had seen it coming. I blamed myself for a long time and sank into the deepest depression I have ever suffered.

One reason for that was undoubtedly feeling that Tom had betrayed me. I thought how could he have hurt me so badly? Another reason was failing to understand why any Witness would take his own life. After all, didn't we have "The Truth", and wasn't that sufficient to give us every reason for living? Who wouldn't want to live forever in paradise on Earth? All we had to do to attain it was be good Witnesses and everything would take care of itself.

Now I had other friends and they all rallied around me after Tom's suicide. I was never left alone or forced to cope with the loss by myself. But the questions I had wouldn't go away. Furthermore, I was "disciplined" by the congregation at that time, being publicly reproved. Dealing with the suicide of my best friend and facing a judicial committee at the same time is not a healthy mix. That thought never occurred to the elders, but it appalled my therapist who rightly questioned the sanity and goodness of a religion that would act in this manner. I could make no defense for it either other than to say, "That's the way it is with Jehovah's Witnesses."

My therapist was very good. She got me to look at the religion critically without herself directly attacking it. She helped me to understand that Tom had made a bad choice, and that it was his choice, not mine, which ended his life. Another big help at that time was my dear father. He was not a Witness although he respected the religion. Yet he told me that one big problem with religions like Jehovah's Witnesses was the belief that they had all the answers. My friend had had serious issues before becoming a Witness, and those issues did not magically disappear once he was baptized. All Tom had done was suppress them. He hadn't dealt with them, and in the end they resurfaced with a vengeance. The religion proved hopelessly inadequate in dealing with them.

As it was with Tom, so it proved with me. While I never lost my faith in God, I had to understand that the trite answers the WTS often gives to serious questions are, as I later told the judicial committee which disfellowshipped me, "inadequate, incomplete, and insufficient". Getting into counseling, talking to non-Witness friends, and reading a lot gradually helped me to regain my mental and emotional balance. Even so, I had a long journey before me to find the happiness which eluded Tom. That came only after I made the decision to never have anything to do with the WTS again.

So I hope this answers your questions, Randy. I'm sorry if my answer was too wordy, but I have given the best one I can. I'll be happy to answer any other questions you or our friends have.

Quendi