Posts by Quendi

30

Some observations on Animal Farm by George Orwell

by WinstonSmith in

i recently finished reading animal farm, written by george orwell.

as someone who has recently awoken to the truth about the truth, this book blew my mind.

the parallels with the watchtower society are quite astounding.

Quendi

Of course, one must remember that Animal Farm is an allegorical look at the history and development of the Soviet Union. George Orwell meant it to be such when he wrote the book in the 1940s. Farmer Jones was the Czar; Major was Lenin; while Snowball and Napoleon stood for Trotsky and Stalin respectively.

What makes the book so apropos to our discussion is how the history of Jehovah's Witnesses parallels the history of the former Soviet Union. The story of Animal Farm is a commentary on human nature and has been repeated many times throughout history. What happened with the WTS, the Soviet Union, and other movements and states is nothing new. Animal Farm could just as well be seen as a history of the Mormon Church, whose development very closely follows what Orwell writes about.

The book is a classic. I have read it before and it is a permanent part of my home library. I first read it as a high school student. It was assigned and required reading by my English teacher in those days. Back then we talked about the book's depiction of the workings of a totalitarian state. With the collapse of the Soviet Union I suppose the book isn't read much anymore, but I think it should still be required reading for students.

This discussion is not the first time Animal Farm has been a topic on this board. Along with several others I have done so in the past, though not with the excellent analysis our friend Winston Smith has given to us. I want to thank him for it and I will close with this quote from Thomas Jefferson which also applies to the WTS:

“Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.”

Quendi

26

Reinstatement in the kingdom hall means that you'll still be shunned by all for a long time = decades!

by witchtowerwitch in

don't count on too much mercy my fine featherd friends,,,hehehe,,,lol...!after your reinstated,it will take 20 to 30 years before the dubs start to forget your sorted past.....and you all know this right?so why bother crawling back with you little tail between your legs,so a bunch of glorious elders can save face before the rank and file?no one should be df okay,as this was not the teachings of jesus,only paul who wrote this stuff,but could some wacko in the last 2000 years have inserted this satanic practice into the scriptures to control the masses and manipulate them?the apostle paul wrote too many contradictions in his writings,so why trust in anything that he wrote about?why trust the gb in hq/nyc as to their writings in these past 130 years,since everything that they wrote about is all lies,,,hehehe lol...!who is going to disfellowship them in the hq department for being liars?maybe jehovah will do it in his own due time?.

Quendi

One thing to remember about reinstatement: the only thing that changes is that you are no longer officially shunned. So the people who really liked you will welcome you back with open arms. The others will continue to snub you as they did before. Why? Well, the reinstated person is still under restrictions that can take years to remove. No commenting at meetings. No participation in the Theocratic Ministry School. No parts on the circuit assembly, special assembly day or district convention programs. You are expected to attend all the meetings and go out in field service. The "privileges" will be restored only when the elders have determined that you have groveled at their feet long enough for them to restore them.

The entire procedure, from judicial committee hearings to disciplinary action to reinstatement is completely unscriptural. So it should come as no surprise that reinstated people rarely get back to where they were before being disfellowshipped. I've known of a few cases where men were made ministerial servants and thereafter elevated to the office of elder but those are rare cases indeed. The reinstated person is relegated to second-class membership.

Every congregation is different and that is why many move to another one after their reinstatement. It is the only way to end the assault against their pride and self-esteem. When I was disfellowshipped, I attended meetings in another congregation where the elders went out of their way to make me feel wanted and welcome. My home congregation's elders, by contrast, left no stone unturned to keep me out, denying my reinstatement for some five years. The variation in my treatment was a major factor in helping me break free from the organization for good and all.

Quendi

27

Have the WTBS pretty much declared theocratic and mental war on ex-jehovahs witnessses?

by Joliette in

jw
friends

in light of a lot of the watchtower's kool aid articles.

Quendi

The WTS is under siege and feels itself encircled. As cedars said, there has always been strong opposition to apostates, but in recent years that has been coupled with worship of the Governing Body in its guise as the faithful and discreet slave. The last time I spoke to a Witness about the role the 'slave class' was to play I challenged him to show me anywhere in Holy Writ where it was supposed to lead. Christ said the slave was to feed not lead because there was to be only one Leader for Christians and that Leader is Christ himself. As the Mastercard commercials would have put it, the look of fear and astonishment that crossed his face was priceless.

I have found that when discussing points about the organization with Witnesses, it is best to fight fire with fire. By that I mean that since the WTS claims to be a Bible-based organization, using the Bible itself to refute its claims will make short work of any Witness, be he publisher or high-ranking Bethelite. They are helpless against a competent counter-attack and will flee the field of battle as quickly as they can, usually saying that they won't listen to "apostate" thinking. Very well. If this kind of thinking is "apostate", then the entire Bible is an apostate creation! That is another broadside I give them because it puts the fear of God in them. The conclusion is inescapable: the WTS itself is the "false prophet", the 'wolf in sheep's covering' Jesus warned his followers to be on their guard against.

Quendi

10

A Breakthrough?

by Quendi in

jw
friends

i'd like others' thoughts on this development for me.. i was disfellowshipped seven years ago and made up my mind never to return some two years ago.

most witnesses have shunned me, of course, but there are some still in the organization who associate with me.

one of them lives in southern california and has never ceased supporting me in various ways.

Quendi

I'd like others' thoughts on this development for me.

I was disfellowshipped seven years ago and made up my mind never to return some two years ago. Most Witnesses have shunned me, of course, but there are some still in the organization who associate with me. One of them lives in Southern California and has never ceased supporting me in various ways. He has also never stopped urging me to "come back to the meetings and come back to Jehovah's organization". I have told him I won't return, but I have never been harsh in my responses. Sometimes, when he gets quite emotional in his appeals, I simply let him talk and then say I appreciate his concern for my welfare. Now we have kept in touch via telephone, snail mail and e-mail but haven't seen each other face-to-face in nine years.

Now there is a new development in our relationship. As I have related elsewhere, I have left my home of thirty years in Colorado and returned to Alabama to care for my aged mother. I believe I will be here for quite some time that may well be many months if not a few years. Finding myself in the East once more, I have decided to take advantage of my proximity to many places of interest and visit them. I am making a lot of plans, but the biggest one so far is a grand tour of the Eastern seaboard that will take place in Autumn 2013.

The plan is to see much of the Southern Appalachians, then visit Washington D.C., Philadelphia (where I grew up), Boston and New Hampshire since I have friends in both of those places. I have asked this friend to come with me and there will be at least two others who want to accompany us making a foursome. We are already in the initial stages of planning this odyssey with my friend actively involved and even though it is more than 16 months off excitement is building.

I was both surprised and pleased that my Witness friend agreed to come because this goes well beyond anything he has done for me since my departure from the organization. If the elders ever found out, they would disfellowship him immediately. Of that I have no doubt. A crowd of questions has arisen for me. Why is he coming along? Does he fully understand the risk he is taking if this is discovered? Is he coming because he is growing tired of the organization and wants more freedom? Is our friendship stronger than his fear of being disfellowshipped?

If he does go through with this and takes part, I intend to use the two weeks we'll be together to talk lovingly and seriously about my reasons for never returning to the WTS. I also believe I should tell him he should consider "fading" and getting out for good and all. He owes it to himself and to those friends and family he has outside the organization.

Am I right to think this way? I really believe this is a breakthrough and represents a golden opportunity to get my friend to reclaim his life. I want to be proactive about this without being fanatical, unreasoning, unloving and bullying. How should I handle this? The people of this forum have been wonderful in giving me counsel in the past when I had problems of this type before. You helped me design the best approach to my friend Mark when we met again after a five-year separation. I ask your help again in this matter.

Quendi

38

R&F Rumblings

by biometrics in

so i had a good conversation wth my brother, who i thought was a devout jw.

he eventually asked "are you going to the meetings?

", i said "no" then he said "why not, you know we're near the end".

Quendi

This thread is most interesting and it reminds me of something Barbara Tuchman wrote in her seminal book about the first month of World War I called The Guns of August:

“But once divinity of doctrine has been questioned there is no return to perfect faith.”

She was talking about a German general who had begun to doubt the infallibility of the plan Germany had for a swift victory in the war's opening weeks. I remember that when I first read this, I thought about how it could apply to the WTS. I was still in the organization then, but that thought came into my mind with incredible clarity and force. I have never forgotten it and now that I'm free with no intention of returning, I believe that it is most apropos to many thinking rank-and-file Witnesses who know in their heart of hearts that this religion is completely, utterly and irremediably false!

Quendi

13

What association does The Society permit her single members?

by compound complex in

jw
friends

good morning, fellow posters:.

ironic opening question, eh?.

certainly i could answer this question myself from the publications and personal experience; however, i am interested in your perspective, background, experience (whatever you're willing to share).

Quendi

The WTS worldview is singularly myopic since it sees things in black/white terms. Furthermore, it has little or no sympathy and empathy for single people. They are told that they should "deaden" their sexual desires and pour all their energies into some kind of WTS-approved "full time service". If they do that, then there won't be any time or strength left to get involved in "worldly" organizations that are subtly controlled by Satan.

That also includes associating with other people on the Internet unless they are Witnesses in good standing. Singles should avoid any and all dating services--Internet-based or otherwise--because these are also snares that have been laid down by the Devil to get people involved in gross immorality. As for activities that don't involve romance--concerns like pursuing hobbies with others of like interests, traveling, and other "worldly" temptations--those are also disapproved because they can lead to associating with people who don't believe in Jehovah's way of doing things. Such people would encourage a single Witness to indulge in "independent thinking", the same kind of thinking that started Satan on his career in evil.

This organization is no friend of single people in general. Its focus is on traditional nuclear families who get the lion's share of attention. Others' needs are routinely ignored or marginalized which is why some two-thirds of those raised in a Witness household leave the religion upon attaining adulthood. That statistic alone is damning proof of the WTS's appeal to its own young.

So the answer to your question, CoCo, is that the WTS permits no association outside the narrow confines of the "spiritual paradise" it has set up. Those who choose otherwise are not people in good standing and face some kind of disciplinary action from the elders. The best thing any single person can do in this organization is to get out and put as much distance between it and himself as possible.

Quendi

30

A heart-wrenching comment from the JW survey...

by cedars in

jw
friends

i've just received this comment from a country in the south china sea.

i'd rather not be more specific than that.. the english is poor, but the message is heart-wrenching.

any who question whether ordinary publishers wrestle with doubts need only read this message.

Quendi

I want to express my appreciation for this thread, cedars, as well as the remarks many have made on it. I don't have much to add except to say this. More than one poster has talked about the difficulties all of us have had since severing ties with the WTS. I believe this is true because we are undergoing what I choose to call spiritual detoxification. We are purging ourselves of the spiritual poisons that accumulated in us during our years and even decades of association with this cult.

Detoxification is not something that can be done overnight or in some short span. It can take weeks, months and even years. It goes along with the rediscovery of our real nature and the wonderful personal growth which accompanies that rediscovery. Yes, there will be times of pain, confusion and lack of focus, but we should soldier on, secure in this new-found belief in ourselves and in our Heavenly Father who has never ceased loving us. That will enable us to continue our life journey with real joy. My friends, I wish the same for all of you and want to once more thank all of you for the love, support and encouragement you have given to me ever since I joined this forum.

Quendi

105

2012 Convention Releases

by garlic81 in

jw
friends

post 51 of 52. since 3/27/2009.

google_ad_section_start i can't verify the authenticity of this information as i have not personally attended.

however this is what is posted on another site.. friday:.

Quendi

When I was an active Witness, the district convention was the equivalent of the holiday season to me. I got to see friends I hadn't seen in at least a year, meet new people, and best of all, get new "presents" in the form of the convention releases. I know I wasn't the only one who felt that way about the district convention experience.

I haven't attended a convention in seven years now and have absolutely no desire to ever do so again. It has been interesting to me to see how quickly their importance first faded and then completely disappeared from my life. I look back now and can only marvel at the herd mentality these events created, at how instead of attending a rich spiritual banquet, we were led to a spiritual feeding trough and made to feel privileged to attend instead of abused.

I had thought that the convention releases would be chock full of information to enable us to survive the world's end and prepare us for glorious new world living. Jehovah would use these gatherings to prepare his people for everlasting life in paradise. We would also be educated in a truly spiritual way so that we could not only live in a way pleasing to God but also be equipped to share spiritual riches with others. That was one reason I was eager to read the announcements for the convention dates in the March 15 issue of The Watchtower every year.

But as the years turned into decades and Armageddon drew no closer, my enthusiasm for these gatherings began to wane. After I was disfellowshipped, I refused to attend and subject myself to the cruel shunning I knew I would have to face. That first year of missing the convention didn't make me feel as badly as I thought I would. Each succeeding year was even easier than its predecessor so that when I made up my mind to renounce this religion for good and all, there was nothing left to feel about the conventions at all except the freedom to enjoy my summer without their interruption.

Quendi

188

World map showing net reduction in publisher numbers

by cedars in

jw
friends

mp has asked which country has lost the most publishers, and i decided to investigate.

one thing led to another, and i decided to produce another world map, this time showing the net reduction in publishers for each country.. this has been calculated by means of the following equation for each country:.

2011 total no.

Quendi

Fascinating analysis, cedars, especially when you compare your findings with the spin the WTS always gives the yearly figures. Of course, the WTS has never published bar charts that would graphically show the slowdown in growth and reach. The Society now prefers to keep the drum beat of the approaching end of the world to motivate its overworked and increasingly disillusioned followers. The organization will also use its favorite browbeating tactic of telling publishers they must "do more" in Kingdom service if they expect to survive the end. Your analysis shows that the law of diminishing returns is clearly at work. How long will it take before even the most sanguine Witness realizes that he is wasting his time, effort and money?

Quendi

11

An Update

by Quendi in

i've been away from the board for a while but thought i'd put my head in the doorway to say hello to all and give an update on what's going on with me.. i have been unemployed for nearly three years and finally had got to the end of my tether.

so, at the end of march, i left colorado, my home for the last thirty-one years, and returned to my family in alabama to regroup and recharge my batteries.

leaving colorado and the rockies was heartbreaking but i am grateful that i had a home to return to and didn't wind up on the streets.

Quendi

I'm very glad to have received the responses I have with this thread. Thanks, cedars, for your kind words and I'll be hanging around and contributing more often now that I have a better situation. If any of you read my blog, I hope you will enjoy it. Life in the Deep South is profoundly different from what I experienced in the Rocky Mountain West--as different as night is from day. I find myself marveling that Alabama and Colorado are indeed integral parts of the same country and I feel fortunate to have lived in both states.

I had seen other people care for aged parents but seeing is one thing, doing it is quite another. Love is so important, especially when you see the man or woman who once was so vigorous, strong and competent now unsteady and unsure. Patience is taxed to the limit at times when the parent reverts back to the behavior of a child and can be uncooperative at times. Or the physical ailments they now suffer can put tremendous stress on everyone around them as well. That is when I remind myself that this frail woman loved me and cared for me when I didn't even know my own name. The least I can do now is care for her in the same way.

I am determined to remain active in different things. As I told my mother only yesterday, "A rolling stone gathers no moss, and I am not going to just sit around here doing nothing." That means traveling, meeting new people, and experiencing new things. That's how I lived my life in Colorado and there is no reason to not do the same in Alabama. I don't doubt that I will benefit greatly by remaining physically, mentally and emotionally engaged with my surroundings.

For now, I am still settling in to the new routine. Once that is established I can see how to add the other elements which are so important to me. With no WTS restrictions now to hinder my freedom, I can see how I can have a full life. My friends, I heartily recommend that you do likewise.

Quendi