watchtower ruins a wedding .
today i added a new article to my blog addressing the sad consequence to individuals lives the result of watchtowers infantile doctrinal policy making.
its the story of a man (and a woman) disfellowshipped for something watchtower later on decided was not immoral.
And to think this all started 140 years ago with a small group of people in western Pennsylvania only interested in studying the Bible and preparng for the hoped-for Second Coming in 1914. "Day of small beginnings" indeed! How many other lives have been damaged, ruined, and even ended by this execrable religion? May Jehovah look upon them and judge!
Quendi
i think this thread got lost in the shuffle, so i wanted to make another one.
these are some of the key pages from the deposition of the lead elder, michael lee clarke.
clarke admits he gets his marching orders from the wts.
"Oh what tangled webs we weave when first we practice to deceive." "For it is wind that they keep sowing, and a storm wind is what they will reap."
Quendi
i've given this recent lawsuit quite a bit of thought and come to sound conclusions.
after examining other organization's child-protection policies (namely churches), what i've come to realize is there's a one-size fits all solution that's socially acceptable; all information obtained through witnesses and confessions by organizational personnel is be used to aid and abet law-enforcement.
there's no in-between or anything short of this objective that's socially acceptable.
I can't begin to tell you how furious I was to read this unadulterated offal from Celestial. The penitent privilege cannot be invoked in any case because first and foremost, the confidentiality that is necessary is never respected, honored, or safeguarded. That privilege has room for only two people, the penitent and the clergyman/confessor/spiritual adviser who is told. JWs invoke a judicial committee of three or more men to hear the confession, keep notes of the meeting, open and maintain files in the congregation's records, and notifies the WTS Legal Department. Any one of these actions voids the claim that the privilege exists. And don't even get me started with the thinly veiled assertion that pedophilia and homosexuality should be viewed in the same light.
This long and drawn out post is nothing more than verbal diarrhea. Just the same, I'm glad to see it because it tells me there is still much work to do and deep malice to overcome still when people like Celestial enter a discussion of this type.
Quendi
i am a former ms and i in the middle of a a several year fade and am still working on my wife.
she is totally snowed by the organizaiton.
i will say up front that i do still belive the bible, i know many on this board no longer do, however i do.
I want to voice my support for you in this long struggle to free your wife from this cult, Indian Larry. I am also a Bible believer and can understand that your faith is very important to you. It is indeed a marvel that we both have kept it intact after the corrosive effects of being immersed in the WTS. I was never a servant but did pioneer for two years so I can appreciate the service you did render in behalf of others.
With respect to your wife, you'll have to go slow. There are none so blind as those who will not see and until your wife is ready to face up to "The Truth About The Truth" there is nothing you can do to coerce her. I have slowly and reluctantly come to the conclusion that as bad as the WTS cult is, those who follow its tenets have made that decision deliberately and of their own free will. It can be very painful to see someone we love so besotted, but if we accept that fact it will make our own lives easier.
The WTS often counsels its followers that unbelieving mates can be won over by the conduct of their believing spouses. There is a lot of truth in that sentiment. From your perspective that is now the drama that is being played out. You are trying to win over your wife and logic has failed to move her. The Candice Conti trial has made her consider the idea that something is wrong in the organization. Now that this seed has been planted, you don't need to argue any more. Instead, water it with your love and attention that you have always shown. Let your conduct witness to her and let her realize that a person doesn't have to be a Witness to grow, cultivate, and display the fruitage of the holy spirit.
In time the combination of your continued love and devotion with further damning revelations about the WTS may finally persuade your wife to abandon the cult. But whether she makes the break for freedom or not, continue to honor your marriage vows to love and cherish her. I hope she will always appreciate that and at last use it to claim her freedom. I'll keep you in mind and wish you all the best.
Quendi
anyone see a problem with this intro?.
major time prophecy (introductory comments).
according to the watchtower chronology of world events, 1914 is the turning point in human history.
Hello Vanderhoven7 and Leolaia!
Kudos to both of you for this analysis. I will be an absorbed spectator and observer here since I have only a scant knowledge of koiné Greek. I haven't read much of the literature pertaining to this fascinating subject, but what I have read has persuaded me that the preterist view of the Olivet prophecy and the book of Revelation is essentially correct: the second coming of Jesus Christ occurred in the first century and culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple. My question for both of you is this: Are either or both of you familiar with preterist thinking on this topic and what is your view of it? I'd really appreciate your thoughts. My main source for preterist literature is this website: http://www.preteristarchive.com.
Quendi
i found this letter on dave reekie's blog and asked him if i could write a piece about it.
i am glad that he accepted.. it's so rare to find a real, authentic handwritten letter from a jehovah's witness parent to their disfellowshipped child, so we hope you can read it and show it to any apologists that claim the watchtower society doesn't condone shunning.. you can read the article here.. .
warm regards,.
I want to thank you once more, Sulla, for this very interesting dialogue. What I've appreciated most is the respect that all of us who have taken part in it have had for our friends' opinions. That, as we know, is something that never would have occurred in the JW culture. You have given me a lot of things to think about. One point you make is a very good one. When it comes to the shunning practiced against us by the people we love, it is very difficult to accept that they would do so deliberately, in full knowledge of the harm it is doing to us. None of us wants to believe that anyone we loved so much would then act in such a vindictive, hateful and destructive manner. We'd rather blame some other agency for this.
Perhaps we feel this way because we think it would make it easier to extend forgiveness if the relationship is to be repaired. After all, it is much easier to accept an apology from someone when they say, "I didn't mean it." than from someone who might say, "I knew full well what I was doing but did it anyway." But in either case, forgiveness should be granted even if one case is easier to absolve than some other.
Let's keep on talking because I think we aren't the only ones who are benefiting from the discussion. This thread has had more than 800 views, so clearly this issue is affecting many of us. The original post that got the ball rolling here is still relevant. One of our friends received a letter from his mother saying she was severing her tie with him. She says she arrived at this conclusion entirely on her own without being coerced or brainwashed in any way. As hard as it might be for David, his friends and the rest of us to accept, she may be entirely truthful in what she has said. While WTS religion and practice have undoubtedly played a major part, and while there may well be elements of fear also motivating her, in the end the decision to shun her son was one this mother made by herself. We can only hope that she will eventually reconsider this very bad choice and once more reach out to her son. I can only hope likewise in the cases of my California mom and Colorado brother.
Quendi
anyone see a problem with this intro?.
major time prophecy (introductory comments).
according to the watchtower chronology of world events, 1914 is the turning point in human history.
A close examination of events in 1914 reveal a difficulty with the timing of the start of World War I with the beginning of Christ's "presence". The war began on 28 July, whereas for many years the WTS maintained that Christ's presence did not start until either 1 or 4/5 October. The gap between these two events has never been adequately explained. Nowadays the WTS simply says the Gentile Times expired in 1914 although you can still find references to October being the start of Christ's presence here and there, but it is obvious to me that some among the WTS thinkers still have difficulty with reconciling the two events and so don't mention this timing at all if they can help it.
Quendi
my 19 yr/old little brother who just got df'd a couple weeks ago is being forced to attend the dc by my family he still lives with.
anyone have experience with this that might have creative advise?
he is very social and this is going to break his heart.
Well, I wouldn't attend either, flipper, but the young man is being forced to by his parents. That's why I recommended a counter-attack strategy of putting his parents on the hot seat by telling everyone that he's DF'd. When he isn't around others, he can then fall back on his mobile device for entertainment--the same thing that many other Witness kids will doubtless be doing. LOL
Quendi
my girlfriend is a baptized jw (complex situation, don't ask).
i am a non-believer who faded many years ago.
i wanted to give her a challenge when she attends this year's district convention, and offer that i would attend next year's dc if i was incorrect.. .
I'd be interested in this as well. I haven't been to any meeting in more than two years but I'm certain your girlfriend will discover that both Jesus and Jehovah are being given short shrift from the WTS these days. A tally will make that obvious.
Quendi
my 19 yr/old little brother who just got df'd a couple weeks ago is being forced to attend the dc by my family he still lives with.
anyone have experience with this that might have creative advise?
he is very social and this is going to break his heart.
If he has a tablet computer and/or smartphone, he can use them to pleasantly occupy his time. Also, let him share his status with others he meets, particularly if his parents are around. They'll get the idea that maybe it wasn't a good idea to force his attendance since it's plain he doesn't want to be there.
After I got DF'd I refused to go to any large Witness gathering and even boycotted the book study after a while. Running a steeplechase to avoid contact with other people simply wasn't worth my time and trouble. Your parents should have realized this as well, but clearly are making your brother attend merely for appearance's sake. What a shame! But he can get a small measure of revenge by telling everyone that he can't talk to him because he's DF'd and would be in violation of policy. Other than that, he can't be made to pay attention to the boring and pointless talks so if he has any mobile devices, let him use them during the program.
Quendi
