I know several who freqent Vegas for trade shows. Most make it a point to publicly mention hat they would NEVER gamble! Some of those I am closer with and who are more independent thinkers (and know that I am as well), don't mind sharing their "winning" stories.
DesirousOfChange
JoinedPosts by DesirousOfChange
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Do you know any dubs that goes to Las Vegas for Vacation?
by Iamallcool inas we all know that las vegas is about gambling, but not everything is about gambling in las vegas, is there a way for the dubs to enjoy their vacation in las vegas without gambling?.
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How Do You Respond To: Like Early Christians, JWs Go "House-To-House"?
by minimus ini read the ray franz book but witnesses just see the scripture about going "house to house".
how would you help a witness understand the reality?.
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DesirousOfChange
Geeze.....I wrote all this in my own home. Does that count as "preaching house to house" and can I count all of you as Return Visits?
I think it is allowed to count the time you write letters, etc., however, you can count MANY MORE hours if you write to each person (ie not-at-homes) INDIVIDUALLY by hand, even though it would so obvious that you could write it once and hit the print button for 10/100/1000 copies. But then, you could not get in your "pioneer hours".
So if you would like, you could send it in a PM to all persons on this site. That might allow you to get pioneer hours so that you could attend the "apostate-eer school" when the CO comes thru.
Love your well researched comments, Blondie!
DOC
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Circuit Accounts Servants Confesses how the SCAM WORKS!!
by JT inyes, i too have wondered how an assembly that is held in a fully paid for assembly hall, with no food service, could possibly have $10,000 in expenses.
i suppose the bethel speakers have transportation expenses - maybe $1000 or so.
as for rent on the assembly hall, well you have already paid for it once, why pay again?
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DesirousOfChange
We discussed it as a body of elders and decided to say no. We never read the letter to the congregation or sent an additional donation. This was in Lothian circuit in Scotland around 1990
You guys were probably the only cong in the circuit that had the "balls" to "just say NO!"
There was one elder body in our circuit that was considered "uncooperative" because of their independent thinking like that. For example, only they would refuse to adjust meeting times for the COs visit, as it would inconvenience many in the cong. They figured the CO was there to SERVE THE FLOCK, not the other way around.
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Circuit Accounts Servants Confesses how the SCAM WORKS!!
by JT inyes, i too have wondered how an assembly that is held in a fully paid for assembly hall, with no food service, could possibly have $10,000 in expenses.
i suppose the bethel speakers have transportation expenses - maybe $1000 or so.
as for rent on the assembly hall, well you have already paid for it once, why pay again?
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DesirousOfChange
Trust me - some elders are already seriously pissed off with this. Why donate to the www when they already have a deficit.
But if they dare say anything about it in that "business meeting" it will mean NO assmebly or convention parts; NO department head positions; NO warm and fuzzy from the CO/DO/ASSM Ovrseer; NO POINTS MADE ANYWHERE. Period. If they dare say something at one of those meetings, the Assm Ovsr probably will just pass them over at the next one.......... ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE! AYE AYE AYE AYE AYE AYE AYE AYE AYE AYE AYEA [one abstain] OK IT'S UNANIMOUS TO SEND ALL THE DOUGH WE HAVEN'T COLLECTED YET TO THE WWW.
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Need help with some research please
by EntirelyPossible inso, a lot of you know the situation with my kids.
my older son asks me today why i put in the divorce consent decree why he can't get baptized until he's 18. as we talked, i told him that the wt rules are that once he is 18 he can't talked to me anymore if he is baptized.
he doesn't believe me and since i don't have the wt materials or cd anymore, i need some references from the wt about how children treat df'ed parents and when they should start shunning, etc.. can anyone help me out?
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DesirousOfChange
"Necessary famly business" is the limiting buzz word for associating with family member who do not live in the same household. Typically a JW can decide by their own conscience what involves "necessary business" and will not risk DF for personal contact with a parent/child, however, they very likely would not be considered "without reproach" so as to qualify as a pioneer, MS, or elder. This may even apply to walking the mics etc. Seems that all originated in a 1981 or 1982 WT --- [dusting off CD] It is 09/15/1981 WT pg 26:
IN THE IMMEDIATE FAMILY CIRCLE
9 A person might become a Christian without others in that one’s family circle accepting the faith. For instance, a wife might be serving Jehovah, but her husband not. Despite that, she is still “one flesh” with her husband and is obliged to love and respect him. (Gen. 2:24; 1 Pet. 3:1-6) Or she might be married to a man who was a dedicated Christian but was later expelled from the congregation. Yet that would not end their marital ties; only death or a Scriptural divorce would do that.—1 Cor. 7:39; Matt. 19:9.
10 Similarly, if a relative, such as a parent, son or daughter, is disfellowshiped or has disassociated himself, blood and family ties remain. Does that mean, then, that in the family circle everything remains the same when one member is disfellowshiped? Definitely not.
11 A disfellowshiped person has been spiritually cut off from the congregation; the former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle. Thus, family members—while acknowledging family ties—will no longer have any spiritual fellowship with him.—1 Sam. 28:6; Prov. 15:8, 9.
12 That will mean changes in the spiritual fellowship that may have existed in the home. For example, if the husband is disfellowshiped, his wife and children will not be comfortable with him conducting a family Bible study or leading in Bible reading and prayer. If he wants to say a prayer, such as at mealtime, he has a right to do so in his own home. But they can silently offer their own prayers to God. (Prov. 28:9; Ps. 119:145, 146) What if a disfellowshiped person in the home wants to be present when the family reads the Bible together or has a Bible study? The others might let him be present to listen if he will not try to teach them or share his religious ideas.
13 If a minor child is disfellowshiped, the parents will still care for his physical needs and provide moral training and discipline. They would not conduct a Bible study directly with the child, with him participating. Yet this does not mean that he would not be required to sit in on the family study. And they might direct attention to parts of the Bible or Christian publications that contain counsel he needs. (Prov. 1:8-19; 6:20-22; 29:17; Eph. 6:4) They can have him accompany them to and sit with them at Christian meetings, hoping that he will take to heart Biblical counsel.
14 But what if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation.
15 For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) Perhaps it seems necessary to bring the parent into the home, temporarily or permanently. Or it may appear advisable to arrange for care where there is medical personnel but where the parent would have to be visited. What is done may depend on factors such as the parent’s true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household.
16 This could be true also with regard to a child who had left home but is now disfellowshiped or disassociated. Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring “leaven” into the home?—Gal. 5:9.
17 In Jesus’ parable of the prodigal son, the father ran to meet and then accepted his returning son. The father, seeing the lad’s pitiful condition, responded with natural parental concern. We can note, though, that the son did not bring home harlots or come with a disposition to continue his sinful life in his father’s home. No, he expressed heartfelt repentance and evidently was determined to return to living a clean life.—Luke 15:11-32.DISFELLOWSHIPED RELATIVES NOT LIVING AT HOME
18 The second situation that we need to consider is that involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is not in the immediate family circle or living at one’s home. Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so there may be some limited need to care for necessary family matters. Nonetheless, it is not as if he were living in the same home where contact and conversation could not be avoided. We should keep clearly in mind the Bible’s inspired direction: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person . . . , not even eating with such a man.”—1 Cor. 5:11.
19 Consequently, Christians related to such a disfellowshiped person living outside the home should strive to avoid needless association, even keeping business dealings to a minimum. The reasonableness of this course becomes apparent from reports of what has occurred where relatives have taken the mistaken view, ‘Though he is disfellowshiped, we are related and so can treat him the same as before.’ From one area comes this:
“One person who was disfellowshiped was related to about one third of the congregation. All of his relations continued to associate with him.”
And a highly respected Christian elder writes:
“In our area some disfellowshiped ones with large families have been met, as they enter the lobby of the Kingdom Hall, with a fanfare of backslapping and handshaking (even though the disfellowshiped one was known by them to be still living immorally). I feel a deep concern that those who have been disfellowshiped need to see that their course is hated by Jehovah and by his people and that they should feel a real need to become genuinely repentant. What will help these disfellowshiped ones to change when they are continually greeted by all in their large families who know of their practices?”
20 There must have been congregations in the first century where many were related. But when someone was disfellowshiped, were all the relatives to carry on as normal as long as they did not discuss Scriptural matters with the disfellowshiped person? No. Otherwise the congregation would not really be applying the command: “Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.”—1 Cor. 5:13.
21 Great care needs to be exercised that a person’s situation as a disfellowshiped sinner is neither overlooked nor minimized. As the sons of Korah well demonstrated, our chief loyalty must be to Jehovah and his theocratic arrangement. We can be sure that when we uphold his standards and prefer association with his organized people, rather than with wrongdoers, we will have his protection and blessing.—Ps. 84:10-12.There are many more articles since then but the policy is basically the same other than they are increasing pressure to strictly limit any association with DFd relative outside the home. You son would get this pressure if he was baptized and did not reside with you.
DOC
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15-year-old DF'd child under quarantine? How young could it be?
by FatFreek 2005 ini'm thinking about including the following in an online essay but wish to make sure it's fair and accurate.
any baptized member who uses tobacco and cannot quit ( deemed unrepentant) will be disfellowshipped.
be aware that there is no stated minimum age limit and i've heard of children as young as 11 who've been baptized.
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DesirousOfChange
June 15, 2011 Watchtower (pg 5) implies that age 12 is appropriate for baptism:
"A Witness in Greece said: 'I was baptized when I was 12 years old. I have never regretted my decision.......I did not have the Scriptural knowledge that I have now. But I knew that I loved jehovah and wanted to serve him forever.'"
It's OK to make the most important decision in one's life -- one that will/could affect you for thes rest of your life -------at age 12.
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Does this tell us how desperate they are to paint those who leave as evil??
by therevealer inin the watchtower ?
july 15, 2011 15 this is how they portray ones who simply leave after seeing the light.
but notice how before the article ends they move on to satan and his wicked world.
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DesirousOfChange
And when those that leave talk about what is wrong with the cult they don't bring in corruptive ideas. They bring up stuff that the society has said and published, stuff that is totally embarassing, not some outside thoughts and teachings. -- therevealer
Any apostates I know only bring out the evils of the WT by using the WT publications. If arguing with them using their own words is apostate, then what does that say about the people who penned those words? -- MrFreeze
As I read your comments, Revealer and Mr Freeze, I just had to nod my head and say "THAT IS SO TRUE!"
Paul said: "From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things."
Addressing fellow Christians, Peter wrote: "There will also be false teachers among you."
The "twisted things" and the "false teach[ings]" usually referred to by "apostates" are from WATCHTOWER publications.
When all one does is show the 6 or 8 changes in the meaning of "that generation" from WATCHTOWER publications thru the years.......
OR, when you show the plethora of WT dates of prophecy thru the ages (1799, 1974, 1875, 1881, 1914, 1918, 1919, 1925, 1975, 21st century), all or at least most of which have proven wrong and been revised (over and over for some), and do so from WATCHTOWER publications......
WHO HAS BEEN DOING THE TWISTING????
WHO HAS TAUGHT THAT WHICH HAS PROVED TO BE FALSEHOODS?
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I joined a new cult
by skeeter1 inanother ex-dub was talking to me about nutrition and healthy lifestyle, natural remedies, etc.
i've been getting into it.. i came across dr. fuhrman.
he's an authority (board certified family physician).
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DesirousOfChange
Red wine has good favonoids and resveratrol, a potent antioxident in the skin of grapes associated with health benefits.
I'm gonna do with this like I now do with the Watchtower material -- pick and choose which points I like and/or agree with.
Lots of favonoids and resveratrol and antioxidents around here!!
Whoo hoo! And I thought the only good purpose in Cabernet or Merlot was to get a brief escape from the day's anxieties. Now I find out it's HEALTHY!
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Feet and Toes Research and Noo Lite
by Mad Sweeney inthis has been discussed in the district convention thread but i felt like all the "toes" info would be nice to see in one place.
[from the late 1950s through most of the 1970s the toes of the image meant all coexisting powers and governments at the time of the end].
35 but there was a final or completing part of the symbolic image, namely, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay.
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DesirousOfChange
Is LARS disguising himself as 20571pnt428571?
Are they possibly related? Perhaps in another life?
Or is it just a contest to see who can use up the most space in a post?
[yawn]
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Today's WT lesson: Desperate for more MS. How many get appointed 1 yr after baptism?
by Open mind intoday's wt lesson: serving jehovah with all seriousness, excerpt from paragraph 11:.
"if a brother has been baptized at least one year and to a reasonable degree meets the scriptural qualifications for ministerial servants outlined at 1 timothy 3:8-13, he can be recommended for appointment.".
how often have you seen someone become a ministerial servant one year after baptism?
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DesirousOfChange
Especially since in many Kingdom Halls I've visited in the past 2 yrs, including my own...there's a lot of elders doing the sound and carring mics.
I'm seeing this too, even where there are plenty of teens and MS. Could this be a suggestion as to how they can appear more humble (washing the feet)?