Posts by NewChapter

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

Many of his disciples left because they did not understand that his words were of the spirit, as well. Some remained.

That part of the bible is wrong. The entire flesh/blood ritual was completely out of line with all of scripture, and all that we know of Jesus. We have to judge all scripture according to Jesus. Eating human flesh and drinking human blood was never even hinted at. We have a natural aversion to doing such. It is an inherently earthly idea, and has nothing to do with spiritual. Very fleshly, if you will. But why would they write such a thing, since it was so completely out of line with Jesus's personality?

Well, I think the above explains it well. There was always a power struggle among the disciples. Who is closer to Christ? Who will sit at the left and right hand? Who has the authority to cast out demons? Christ was always trying to correct this, but they kept falling back to the old ways of jostling for prestige.

Of course the Jews would walk away when cannibalism was introduced. It was appalling to them. But did Jesus really say that to the crowd, or was it later reported to make the core group look more faithful? I think the second option, because the way Jesus handled the new and shocking teaching was not in line with his teacher personality. He just dumped it on them! He would not have done that, especially knowing the prohibition on eating blood. He would have reasoned with them. He would not have asked them to just take his word for it. He may have said, 'you heard it was written that you must not consume blood, but I say to you . . ."

So looking to Christ, rather than the scriptures, this does not jive. Christ didn't act like that. Lying scribes later added that bit to make themselves look more faithful, and to make it look like they were a part of a convenant that others walked away from. So today, when people decline because they know Christ and know he would not have commanded such a thing, those that go with the lying scribes can compare them to those that walked away in Jesus's day.

No. That doesn't flush with my understanding of Christ, therefore, the bible is wrong on that.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

So it was a comparison of who a person belonged and listened TO: Christ (unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no part of me)... or WTS.

I don't believe that part of the bible. I'm comparing to Christ being love, and if it is not loving, it is not from Christ. I don't think that Christ would ask me to eat human flesh or drink human blood, even symbolically. I think humans have an aversion to it for a reason. I think that is why when we portray such behavior, it is done by zombies and vampires---monsters. Christ would never ask us to act like monsters.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

That is for Christ, not me. Certainly i am not saying that someone who uses a different approach to come to Christ, than what i do, cannot be a christian.

And yet you had no problem comparing Christians that looked to the OT to Lot's wife. And you have no problem questioning whether I partook of bread and wine, insinuating that those that don't, aren't Christians. Although, I came from a tradition, looong before JW's, where doing such was not a measure of whether one was a Christian or not. It was not emphasized. It was ritual. There are some Christians that don't think that ritual has anything to do with it at all, but my think you have to be born-again of spirit, and THAT makes one a Christian. The ones I knew didn't get all worked up over the ritual of bread and wine. There are other Christians that feel the need to take the bible as a whole, and considering the OT, you know, like Jesus, but you say they are like Lot's wife.

And where did the directions to this blood/wine ritual come from? Yeah. The bible. The NT, which makes endless references to the OT. So I suppose the NT is a lot like Lot's wife.

Sure, I know you are not going to say it to anyone's face, but you are saying it. You back away from what you said, and I would expect that, but you still said it. And I believe you think it. So when I said I believe I WAS a Christian as a JW, as I tried to emulate Christ in my life, your first question was did I partake of the bread and the wine. I assume that would disqualify from being a Christian in your eyes. And yet, in all my years in Christianity, this had been no more than a ritual to me, as I always thought it was where your heart was, as opposed to doing some ritual, that made one a Christian.

You say you can tell if some people are really Christians? Interesting. The point of all of this is to say you are just like every other Christian, even though you like to pretend you are above all that. You do exactly what many of them do. THEY are real Christians, others are not. THEIR definition is the only valid definition. THEIR interpretation always right. But there is always the 'out'. The grudgingly offered acceptance that they can't read the heart and can't judge an individual, but they still do it. And so do you.

You say set the bible aside, and approach Jesus your way. You may allow that there might be other ways, but you preach about your way a lot. Churches say 'let us show you the way'. Churches are evil. Why? They do the exact same thing that you do---offer to lead the way. Plenty of these churches allow a wild amount of room for private understanding. United Church of Christ is very liberal that way. Yet they are still offering to lead the way, even if you choose a slightly or even vastly different path, they will keep all travellers cohesive.

I remember a Christian being interviewed. It was pointed out that people from another religion believed they followed God, exhibited great faith, prayed, sacrificed, all the things she as a Christian did. But she summed it up nicely. She said, "Yes, but they are wrong and we are right."

That's all this is.

68

If Jesus was the" Greatest Teacher" the" Son of God" then why ?...........

by smiddy in

jw
friends

why did he not put pen to papyrus, all the wise sayings that are attributed to him by others.?.

he is supposed to be the greater moses , at least moses is credited with writing the first five books of the bible , admittedlly some centuries later .

jesus never wrote anything at all .. if jesus is the greater moses ,what writings has he done ?...zilch.

NewChapter

If I give a speech, and it is not recorded, it is lost forever and open to the subjective interpetation of those that heard the speech. Many studies show that this is very unreliable, and we forget much of what we heard almost immediately. All that is put in is filtered through our own biases. If I write it down, there is still an interpretation issue, but what I wrote is preserved as a point of reference.

Moses wrote (supposedly). David wrote. Isaiah wrote. Daniel wrote. Why not Jesus?

40

I Used To Hate Gays!

by DubR in

i remember i use to have a lot of hate in my heart when i was a jw.

i remember i used to hate gay people a lot!

when news reports came in about gays getting jumped in parks at night or killed.i would always smile inside.

NewChapter

I don't know that I hate less, because I wasn't a big hater, but I definitely love more.

The gay hate always made my stomach tighten. I didn't understand it. I remember 'friends' saying that they quit listening to music, cuz they found out a band member was gay. I was appalled. I said, do you think many of the other performers are likely fornicators? Yes. Well, then, homosexuality is not listed as a worse sin as heterosexual fornication! But still, even though I argued it from the bible (the only acceptable argument) it didn't sit right with me. I just truly never saw the problem, or why I should concern myself. I went on a return visit, and a man asked me what I thought of gay marriage. I think I stunned my partner by saying, "acutally, the bible doesn't have anything to say about gay marriage." My partner shifted uncomfortably, so I showed a scripture on homosexuality. Didn't want to. But it was expected.

Another time, I went to my cafeteria at work, and a 'sister' worked there and was acting very distressed. What's wrong? "I'm being sexually harrassed!" she stated rather loudly. "What's going on?" "They just hired 2 gay people, and we already had one! Now we have 3. I'm being sexually harrassed!" again--quite loudly. "Well, I don't understand, are they saying things to you? Are they hitting on you?" "No, but they are everywhere! I'm being sexually harrassed!" even louder. I left stunned. The irony that was not lost on me was that she was actually harrassing them, as they seemed to be minding their own business.

Today, I have all kinds of friends. One of my best friends is a gay guy, and he and his boyfriend put down my kitchen floor this weekend. Another plus, he goes clothes shopping and to the hair salon with me and enjoys it! LOL. He also built me a great pair of boobs for Halloween, I HAD CLEAVAGE, so the pluses keep coming!

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

Jesus doesn't have anything to do with it, Dub. LOL

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

You don't have to conclude or to trust me on that, or anything. Far better than me, you could look to and listen to Christ, yourself. He is the truth, not me. But there is no reason that I should not speak or witness to Him. Sometimes something resonates with a person and they will ask, pray, or reason for themselves... and sometimes it does not resonate with a person.

But I would, indeed, need to trust you. You say the bible is not the best place to go for answers, but I should trust you that going direct is the best place. The bible says otherwise. Therefore, I would have to trust what you say in order to find the right approach. That is what you have been preaching, whether you see it or not. You have decided that some who consider themselves Christians, really are not. And where does one go to find that information? You. And then you direct them to Christ? Because they are not really Christians? You don't see it. That's okay. They are saying the same thing about you

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

That would depend upon your definition of Christian, wouldn't it? Not everyone who calls themselves a Christian IS a Christian.

I see. So you beieve that it is your job (and right) to define Christian, and other definitions are not valid, and that means, in a sense, it is you who decides fits your definition of Christian, and the other are not really Christians? I find that problematic. I don't think it's up to you to say such a thing. Think about it. When I was a JW, I was a Christian. Now, you likely will not agree, because you have decided the definition, but your definition is no more valid than mine. Right?

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

Lot and his wife had been offered a way out of destruction and TO life... but Lot's wife still looked back to that which was NOT life.

If you have Christ (who is the life), then why look back at that which did not bring life, as if it might do so?

When I was a Christian, the OT was very important to me. Jesus quoted and read from it, and so, I figured, good enough for Jesus, good enough for me. I don't think I would have like the comparison to Lot's wife, and find it is not a valid comparison. Think of it this way. S & G had been judged, and were going to be wiped from the face of the earth. Nothing there of value. It was all going up in smoke. That is not true of the law. So it is a bad comparison. Jesus even said he did not come to take away the law but to fulfill it.

The irony of you using an OT story to say don't look back at it is not lost on me. LOL

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

NewChapter

They don't just call themselves Christians, they are Christians. You say just look to love, but then, I would have to believe you on that, since the bible is not the best place to go for information. There is no reason to conclude that the way you see this is the right way, and no reason to just trust you on that.