Posts by bafh

19

Where would we go, is the question

by Pistoff in

what better place, what better world can be offered, is the question tossed at those who have left.. what if it is just the same place, without taking everything we hear at the kingdom hall as gospel?.

can we just take with a grain of salt the things we know deep down are without basis?.

it is the same place, with the same friends, but without the drama of feeling that you can never do enough, that you were born sinful.. a faith that does not ask you to treat your family as disposable; a place that does not kick people to the curb when they need their family the most; a faith that lets you trust your heart, not ignore it.. can we just stay in the same place, and realize that we do not have to sacrifice our childrens lives by denying them blood if desperately needed?

bafh

The "third place" that is discussed here - that is what I'm struggling with. I'm successfully faded, but I miss the social aspect of things and I've toyed with the idea of going back. the "third place" though feels hypocritical and I'm afraid of being found out and DF'd. That would really limit my ability to help my family.How do you go in service? I'm not sure I could - I cannot with a clear conscience recommend someone become a JW.

If you are a person who is a "conscious class" and hold this "third place", how does it work??

41

What's the story behind Adam and Eve and fig leaves.

by jam in

where they blind?

nakedness is a sin between married folks?.

that is so silly.

bafh

I have been thinking about this...Are you familiar with Brene Brown's work? She is a sociologist who studies shame and vulnerability. Shame is a human experience, and it drives a lot of our negative behavior that gets catagorized as "sin". Since I've left, I now feel that what gets catagorized as "sin" is not inheritly right/wrong but often falls into the catagory of "that is not good for you/society, so don't do it" - for example, fornication. There is not anything inheritly wrong with having sex with someone you are not married to - but it is better for society to have stable families and it is not good for a person to sleep around with anyone and everyone...so it becomes a cautionary "sin"...

If you believe the story of Adam and Eve, their sense of shame over being naked - that sense that something is wrong with me - came from a break in their relationship to God. Their "sin" was their disregard a spiritual need.

Maybe this story is telling us the origin of the sense of shame we all feel at times, or maybe it is a story set up to explain it away and normalize it.

24

What Happens if...

by bafh in

what happens if someone returns to the congregation but stays inactive?

.

what happens if someone returns to the congregation and does not meet with the elders to "confess" their sins while away?.

bafh

If I'm honest, the truth is I don't care about most of it. I don't. I am actually agnostic. I used to say I'm an agnostic JW because there is so much that they speculate about but that we have no information on.

One reason I left is that I'm tired of trying to figure out if they were right or not, and I really don't want the label of apostate. I don't want my family to see me as dangerous. I'm not. I respect their right to believe what they want, even if they don't respect my right to disagree.

The other issue for me, which I have mentioned a number of times, is that I am struggling socially. But I have to say, I struggled socially while I was "in" too because I wasn't "in" enough.

This is the kind of stuff that gave me panic attacks while I was when and made me leave in the first place.

24

What Happens if...

by bafh in

what happens if someone returns to the congregation but stays inactive?

.

what happens if someone returns to the congregation and does not meet with the elders to "confess" their sins while away?.

bafh

Here is what I agree on:

Paradise Earth - Jehovah decides who gets in, not us ( I belive the scriptures say he will destroy the "system" of things, so I believe it is the infrastructure, and those who hang on to that. There are few evil people who benefit from things just as they are even though it is not good for most of us)

Resurrection - J will bring back who he wants

Death - I do not believe in hell - the dead are dead.

Bible principals - I believe in living those.

Those are the basics for me. I guess. Not much there, really. I am just struggling - so I come here hoping for some support - not judgement. I hope people who are born-in can understand and help me out a bit.

24

What Happens if...

by bafh in

what happens if someone returns to the congregation but stays inactive?

.

what happens if someone returns to the congregation and does not meet with the elders to "confess" their sins while away?.

bafh

Uh, no. I believe in the basics. I think they will change their mind about 1914 and blood within the next five years. I don't believe in child baptism - Jesus was 30 when he was baptized. I do believe that Jesus is our mediator. I don't think it matters what shape the pole was where he died. I also don't believe in hiding child molesters. I don't believe in disfellowshipping except in extreme cases. I don't beleive in confession of sins to the elders - at least not how it is now. I think the Catholics have that one right. I don't believe in hell. I do believe in Heaven. Am I going there? I don't think so.

There is a lot I disagree with - I'm torn. There is for me, as a 4th generation born-in, a lot of social pressure. I'm jus trying to weigh my options.

24

What Happens if...

by bafh in

what happens if someone returns to the congregation but stays inactive?

.

what happens if someone returns to the congregation and does not meet with the elders to "confess" their sins while away?.

bafh

I am considering going back. I agree with JWs as far as doctrine goes - I do not agree with most of what happens in the organization. I consider going back for social reasons only. I don't believe in confession, and I don't plan on becoming active in service again. I would like to just attend without all the pressure. Although, I don't have any false sense that I will not be shunned anyway because I am not active. But maybe I would find others like me who are still attending.

If the elders ask, my response would be, "just because someone is not attending the meetings, it does not mean they have lost all moral sense. I have nothing to confess."

24

What Happens if...

by bafh in

what happens if someone returns to the congregation but stays inactive?

.

what happens if someone returns to the congregation and does not meet with the elders to "confess" their sins while away?.

bafh

What happens if someone returns to the congregation but stays inactive?

What happens if someone returns to the congregation and does not meet with the elders to "confess" their sins while away?

4

I survived a convention session in 2014!

by bafh in

i did survive.

it wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great.

their idea of paradise is that everyone is the same.

bafh

I did survive. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great. Their idea of paradise is that everyone is the same. And their proof that they are God's people is that they are all united in one thought. I don't know...I had been thinking of going back, but then that reminded me how narrow their idea is of spirituality - if you aren't a pioneer, MS or Elder, you are nothing. I'll never fit that mould, so I'd rather just not even try.

My friend who invited me was so happy I went. She said, "I hope you felt it was worth the effort." My response was, "I know how much you love me. And it certainly gave me a lot to think about." She said, "you're being there gave me a lot to be hopeful for."

UGH. At least she doesn't think I'm dangerous. That is my top priority. They can think I'm weak all they want, but I'd rather stay out of the "dangerous/apostate" territory.

I don't entirely disagree with their doctrine, but there are a lot of things about how they carry out their brand of spirituality that really bothers my conscience.

90

PEER PRESSURE!!! I gave in to Pioneering during August...I feel dirty...

by stuckinarut2 in

ok, i'll admit it...i am weak.... as everyone knows, the pressure to "pioneer" during "the most momentous, awesome, amazing, centenary anniversay of jesus invisble kigdom rule, & distribute tracts about a dodgy website" campaign is very strong at the moment.... also, many will have read my threads about the extreme views and expectations in our cong for "all appointed men to pioneer" etc..... every elder and ms and their families have been announced as pioneering....i mean everyone's name was read out except mine..... i was not going to do it, as i do not believe anyone should be forced...(and of course its the last thing on earth i would rather do anyway since learning ttatt).

but i am not quite ready to make the break yet, so i realised that i would stand out more if i didnt put in a form to pioneer.

yes it would make me more conspicious, and make fading harder to do...it would bring more heat on me if i didnt pioneer.. so i gave in and submitted a form.... now, of course, i'm only going to make sure i'm seen at the key field service groups etc...but then go and do something more interesting...like count blades of grass..... ahh....i feel hypocritical to myself now......

bafh

Don't be too hard on yourself. You have to fade slowly and in such a way that will allow people to regard you as weak rather than dangerous. I totally get it because I have done it too. I didn't give in to peer pressure about pioneering, but I did give in to peer pressure to attend part of the convention. I did it so they would not think I'm dangerous. Of course now, they told me "they have hope" about me. SIGH.

Anyway, think of it as a game. Sometimes you have to make moves that don't look like you are going for the goal so you can draw attention away from yourself and sneek away. Pretend you are an international spy of some kind. Don't beat yourself up, and try to have fun. That is what I'm trying to do.

Chins up.

BAFH

10

Hypocrisy of a paragraph in the "Draw Close to Jehovah" book!

by stuckinarut2 in

"draw close to jehovah" book.

page 106, para 20:.

20 does serving whole-souled mean that we must all spend the same amount of time and energy in the ministry?

bafh

Why did you go back KateWild? I'm considering it. I went to a session of the convention. Wasn't horrible, but there is so much that bothers my conscience.