Lindy

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Posts by Lindy

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  86

  Submit your favorite quote!

  by Spartacus in

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  when a difficulty is deep and painful, the triumph is glorious and jubilant.. -spartacus 2001

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  Lindy

  "You can fool some of the people some of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool Mom."--Barnaby
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  41

  How Many IN, OUT, etc.

  by troubled in

  1. jw
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  i'm wondering how many here are "active jws," "inactive jws," "x-jws," or "never jws.".

  i don't mean to be nosy.

  i'm just wondering how many are in a situation like mine (still in, but struggling).

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  Lindy

  I have been inactive for several years, just drifted away, about 6 now. I am a 52 yr. old woman who was raised in it since the age of 8. My mom drug us kids in, but not my dad. I had nagging doubts all my life but the Society always puts the blame on you for your doubts and so I didn't realize until I left all the truth about the truth. As the years went by, my doubts became more and stronger though. I couldn't see the "love" anymore. I could see the partiality when there was not supposed to be any. I wondered about the changes over the years and how the GB could in one breath claim to be God's spokesman and then turn around and say they were imperfect and that any changes made were because of that. I couldn't understand how a Almighty God couldn't make his point to even imperfect men running His organization. The list goes on and on.
  After my mother's death I basically stopped going except for a couple meetings and two memorials. I have a sister who calls on me and makes sure I get the magazine sub renewed. Matter of fact, she was just here this morning. She is very sweet. She studied with my youngest daughter for about 2 years after we moved in here. I think she knows that my daughters and I won't be returning but she keeps coming back. Sometimes I think she is very unhappy and she'd like to talk.

  We moved into this territory shortly after my Mom died. It is just next to the old territory so no one really "lost track" of us. But no one else visits. No elders have ever been here from either congregation to make sure my transition went okay or to welcome me into the new congregation, and no MSs either. None of the great "friends" who were with me my whole life care one bit to visit with me. Some of my husband's family (my husband was never a JW) are still JWs but they have drifted one by one, over the years. The ones left will probably be in for the rest of their lives though and they don't have much to do with any who left.

  At first I was thinking that the Society just needed reform. But after a few years of extensive research I realize that, at least in my opinion, that there is no true faith and that if there was a creator he/she/it is long gone. I could say a lot more on that subject but not now...to long.

  Happier..? YES! Even without some of the things unanswered I am much happier. I did go through a time of depression and I had to take breaks in my research. It is hard to believe one thing all your life and have all the answers to everything and then find out they are all wrong. So take your time on doing what you need to do. If I can help in anyway feel free to contact me. I will do all I can to answer any question you might have. I just finished my first semester of college and made the deans list. I read what I want and do what I want, without guilt or worrying about who might say what if I did what. No more dealing with gossip and false love and no more people telling me I need to do more despite running myself into the ground. I was miserable as a JW and now I am much, much less miserable. I have days and maybe a week when things aren't right but if I even think of going back, I just remember that I only want what was familiar most of my life. I remember all that I learned about the Society and I am on my way to healing from the Spiritual abuse I suffered all those years. My life is much more healthy emotionally and my family is much happier too. My daughters aren't afraid of ashamed to be themselves nor are they reluctant to talk to me about anything like they were when we were "in".
  Hope this helps because I know you are struggling. But we all did/are so you are far from being alone. Remember that despite what the society says, most leaving do not turn into sex maniacs, druggies, nor do they turn to crime or do anything evil. That is a scare tactic that they use to hold people in. Don't be afraid, your world will open up like you will never believe, just give it time.

  (((((hugs)))))
  Lindy
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  16

  "Mists of Avalon"

  by Mulan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did anyone watch this show on tnt this week?

  it's another version of the arthur legend.

  i finished watching it tonight.

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  Lindy

  I watched it and found it very entertaining. I have it taped too. My youngest daughter has just finished reading the book. The book is very thick so the movie must have only touched on the book, as most movies do based on a book. I enjoyed the fact that they were trying to tie the pagan and Christian religions together. Before the movie was released there evidently was some controversy on this issue of the two religions being placed on an equal and mixing level. A group representing the "Christians" didn't want it released. Always someone trying to play “God” somewhere....

  Lindy
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  Does anyone have a copy?

  by ozziepost in

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  the september 1 issue of the watchtower quotes from the zondervan pictorial encyclopedia of the biblethes words, attributed to jeffrey burton russell:.

  christendom's theologians...have by and large "dismissed the devil and the demons as superstitious relics.".

  knowing that the watchtower society have mis-quoted some publications in the past, i'm interested in seeing whether this is a bona fide quotation.. can anyone help?.

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  Lindy

  Page 3 paragraph 3 states:
  Is that how you see things? Do you agree that "the devil is in reality man's invention to account for his own sinfulness"? That statement appears in "The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible", and many who profess to be Christaian think that way. Christendom's theologians, says Jeffrey Burton Russell, have by and large "dismissed the Devil and the demons as superstitious relics."

  The next paragraph:
  Yet, to some people, the Devil es very real. They reason that there must be some kind of superhuman, malignant force behind the recurrent evils that pervade man's history. "The horrors that the twentieth century has produced," says Russell, provide one reason why "the belief in the Devil, after a long lapse, is rapidly reappearing." According to the author Don Lewis, a number of modern, educated people who "smile patronisingly" at the superstitious beliefs and fears of "their artless ancestors" are "once again becoming enthralled by the evil element in the supernatural."-"Religious Superstition Through the Ages"

  Lindy
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  22

  Please answer this for me

  by jayhawk1 in

  1. jw
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  i have a question, that i would love answered.

  especially if you are a woman.

  men can answer too, but a woman's opinion really matters to me.

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  Lindy

  Bitter Mango,
  Yes, he did say like cousins, but are they "kissing cousins"?
  Lindy

  Jayhawk,
  I wrote the below and my computer ducked out on me when I sent it. I came back and see that you really did make up your mind already but...you can read my advice anyway.
  Lindy

  JH,
  I think you are only kidding yourself. An 18 year old girl and an "older" man? In time the tides will turn. If she moves in and stays for a while I think things will get a bit difficult to handle. But you are both adults and you really can do what you'd like. I am a 52 year old mom and grandma and a mother to a 19 year old girl and a almost 22 year old girl and a 33 year old son. In my experience and in seeing the experience of my children, this situation will not be platonic for to long. You are playing with fire.

  You most likely have your mind already made up. My true advice, find a male roommate if you don't want to eventually ruin your relationship with your cousin-like girl friend.

  You may not be thinking of her like a girlfriend now but that might change when your imagination kicks in when you see her in her nighty or you start thinking of her in the neighboring bedroom, alone at night. Movies are made from story lines like this...why? because it is happening in real life.

  Just my thoughts on the matter based on my own and my childrens experiences.

  Lindy, wishing you the best.

  I just read this question to my very bright 21 year old daughter. Her question is to you...."Why do you ask, and why does it matter what anyone thinks?" "If you had no doubts on the matter, then you wouldn't be asking." She said, "When in doubt, don't". You know why she said that? Because she has not always listened to her own doubts and it has gotten her into a problem or two. Just her 2 cents also.
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  18

  Do Majority of exJWs remain Christians?

  by Ray Skyhorse in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do the majority of exjws retain a christian faith after leaving the borg?

  does the majority of exjws continue studying the bible on their own or join a new christian group that's less rigid than the jws?

  or does the majority say to hell with christianity?.

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  Lindy

  I think that felix a/David P summed it up for me. I, as he, started out still believing in the Bible and the God of the Bible upon leaving. But after years of research I remain, although open to discussion, an agnostic. I also found, as has bboyneko, that there is to much left out of the Scriptures and that there is a lot more to be discovered before the facts and real truth are known. As far as I am concerned, "God" came, "God" created, "God" left.
  Who "God" is/was, and how many were involved, are more questions. The more research you do the more questions you have. I have learned to live with the fact that the answers might be out there but they may never be discovered and believed by all.
  If that were true, then what kind of high almighty being would do this to his "creation"? One who created for his or her, for their purposes, was unintentionally proposed as a God to the created and then left, never even knowing that they were perceived as Gods as they departed. But then the question follows...who created them?
  So that about sums it up as to where I have gotten to so far...

  Lindy
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  65

  The dim people

  by Norm in

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  the dim people.

  the new world society.

  the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.

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  Lindy

  Hey Fred,
  Yes, Norm was full of "do-do". He was probably very constipated. It was from eating from the table of the "Great Governing Body" all those years. All their "spiritual food" delivered in its "due time" over the years just stuffed him full. But now it has been excreted from both ends. Vomit and "do-do". Now Norm is not "spiritually" sick anymore. He is healed! Praise Jah!! So now he sings this song of "praise" to all the "dim people" out there. Hallelujah!

  Lindy
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  Governing Body & The Borg rejected?

  by TheApostleAK in

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  2. friends

  just watching a show with gerald flurry on it and i thought his talk was appropriate.

  it was regarding the prophecies of jeremiah re: rejection of ancient israel.. question i asked myself "could jehovah ever reject modern day spiritual israel?".

  jeremiah 31:37. hosea 9:15-17 (all their badness was in bethel...)(princes = elders)(ephraim = governing body, fds, the borg).. from theapostleak

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  Lindy

  When did God ever accept and keep "His" people? Hmmmm? If "He" exists, will he ever accept a people and keep them. If the Bible is an example for all, it shows that "His" people always fail. So why would if be different now? What might that say about "Him"?

  Lindy, just thinking out loud.
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  Is it right to get people out of the org?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
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  i gather that most on this forum would agree that jehovah's witneeses do not have the truth they cliam to have.. but to what degree do we inform friends and relatives who are still belivers of this.. for many (assuming they come to the same conclution) it would come as a relief , but for others could it do more harm than good?.

  for instance an elder in my hall recently died from cancer which he had suffered from for about a year.. what kept him going and happy through pain and suffering was the belief that he was in the true religion favored by god and would recieve a resurection.. imagine the heart break he would had suffered if people had convinced him that the society was a sham.. imagine others say like my parents who are in their 50's and have no pension who look forward to the future paradise.. would it be right for me to covince them that thier dreams for for future are all flawed.. i am still in my 20's and i'm not the type to get depreesed and all that, but i have to admit to being gutted when the truth dawned on me that all my hopeds and beliefs were likely wrong.. but can we be certain to such an absolute degree that all that witnesses belive is false?.

  do we really have the right to preach with coviction to others that they are wrong, just like we preached when we belived?.

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  Lindy

  Hi Danny,
  Thanks for the kind words.
  Maybe that is the reason the WTBTS is saying that it is okay to get educated, so they can say they gave them the choice. But in the next breath, outside of the literature they discourage such an education at the Hall, through the elders, and at the conventions. They say one thing and actually do another. Education to them is like poisoning themselves. The only time they want it is to cover their legal butts. But they don't want all the average rank and file JWs getting an education. With only one semester of college my eyes saw everything differently. It was amazing to me. If all JWs saw a tenth of what I did and felt they would be mass exiting or at least have strong thoughts of doing so. So, in print the Society is saying one thing to please the outsiders, but in reality where it counts, they are still stifling the flock, chaining the gates to the corral shut.
  Like you said, it is posturing, not a fact. And of course, for their benefit only.

  Auntie
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  Is it right to get people out of the org?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i gather that most on this forum would agree that jehovah's witneeses do not have the truth they cliam to have.. but to what degree do we inform friends and relatives who are still belivers of this.. for many (assuming they come to the same conclution) it would come as a relief , but for others could it do more harm than good?.

  for instance an elder in my hall recently died from cancer which he had suffered from for about a year.. what kept him going and happy through pain and suffering was the belief that he was in the true religion favored by god and would recieve a resurection.. imagine the heart break he would had suffered if people had convinced him that the society was a sham.. imagine others say like my parents who are in their 50's and have no pension who look forward to the future paradise.. would it be right for me to covince them that thier dreams for for future are all flawed.. i am still in my 20's and i'm not the type to get depreesed and all that, but i have to admit to being gutted when the truth dawned on me that all my hopeds and beliefs were likely wrong.. but can we be certain to such an absolute degree that all that witnesses belive is false?.

  do we really have the right to preach with coviction to others that they are wrong, just like we preached when we belived?.

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  Lindy

  That is a good question. I was on my way to exiting the Organization, but didn't realize it, when my mother got cancer. I had been in this WTBTS almost 40 years at the time. My mother came in as a disillusioned Catholic dragging her young children with her. So to her this was the "Truth". She lived it many, many years and gave her all to it. I always had doubts, just didn't realize it growing up and in my adulthood that those doubts weren't weaknesses, as the Elders told me. I stayed, always under pressure somehow to do so. My brother was DF and I was the only child in. My Dad never came in. I lived a miserable life as a JW. Things were never right for me. But I dragged on. How I wish someone had come to me years earlier and told me the facts. I thought my doubts were my own fault and I was the one lacking. That is the way the Society keeps people in, by making it the individual's fault, not theirs.
  But, by the time my Mom was ill with cancer, I was so inactive that I didn't get to meetings on a regular basis and I didn't go out in service at all. But I hung on because of my Mom. I didn't share negative things with her. She needed her faith at the end and what would have been the point to distract her from it then? Even if I knew what I know now, I wouldn't have done that to her. In my eyes, that would have been cruel. She would probably kept her faith and died knowing that I would probably not be in that "New System" of hers when she arrived. What good would that have done?
  But as far as someone younger, there is hope. At 52, young man, I have just started college. I was on the dean's list last semester and plan to go on and graduate. The government is planning on moving retirement age into the 70's before I get to the age they subscribe now. So I figure that I have lots of time to get a degree and work a few years and set myself up. I also am setting an example for my daughters who are 19 and 22 and my son who is 33 and my granddaughter who is 9. It is never to late to better yourself.
  As far as retirement, your parents can go on thinking that the new system will rescue them from it, or they can go on and hit the reality that they have nothing when they arrive at old age, still here in this "Old System" with no way to live decently. Is it better to know that they have to make some big changes in their 50's, or is it better for them to see it when they are in their late 70's and 80's and realize that they should have planned for their old age? The Society will not be handing out monies to them because they predicted that the end will come "soon" and that they should "wait on Jehovah" and depend on "Him" to take care of their needs. Jehovah isn't handing things out to the old ones who now need it and thought the end was "nigh" years and years ago, are they. No, they claim it is these old ones own fault for "placing a date on the end" and not preparing for their old age. The Society claims no responsibility for these old ones who gave up everything for them.
  If you think that your parents might listen, test them out here and there and see. They are really young enough to face the facts and young enough to make some changes yet to make their future a better one, emotionally and financially.
  If you don't get them to see the facts, then you had better get yourself a degree and get into a financial position where you will be able to help to take care of them. You are very young and able to get into that position and if you love them and don't want them in poverty you might want to consider this advice.
  You are young and you don't have life’s experience yet. Your parents, even as JWs have learned a lot, don't discount that. Exiting the Watchtower would not necessarily be as big a hardship emotionally on them as you might think. It just depends. I had a hard time, but not as hard as some. It all depends on the support you get and how strong you are emotionally. I learned so much on-line. These boards meant a whole lot to me. Anytime I felt that I might go back to the Hall, I recalled all the things I learned. It takes time and it will take time for your parents too, if they choose to leave. But they will have your support and you would have theirs. Finding out the facts about the Society is a paradigm shift for most who have given it their all. But the mind is a great thing and can handle it.

  Remember too, that telling any JW anything bad about the Society is a red flag for them to think you might be "apostate". You don't say if you are still in or baptized. You didn't say how strong a JW your parents are, how ingrained they might be. You are risking your standing in the congregation if you are still in, and could be DF if you insist on talking about your thought that are contrary to the Societies teachings.
  You also need to do more research, your comment on not knowing that all that the JW's believe is false and whether reform would be good or not. You need to learn more so that you can answer these things in your own heart. It takes time and research but the facts are there for the taking.
  But you are thinking and that is good. I came on my first board in defense of the JW's, and I can't be more grateful for the patience of the ones who taught me over the years. So keep moving forward. Keep asking questions and follow the brain and heart that was given you and live a good life with no serious doubts in your soul. It can happen.

  Lindy