Lionel_P_Hartley

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Posts by Lionel_P_Hartley

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  19

  Sunday's Radio Show with the Dub's

  by Unclepenn1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, we had our radio show on sunday with the jehovah's witnesses and i don't think it went all that well, namely because it turned into a game of rhetoric.

  (if you listened, i would love to hear your thoughts).. .

  2 tim 2 :14 says- keep reminding them of these things.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  Unclepenn,

  You should have told us who it was from the start! Mr. Stafford has quite a reputation for his " 'debating' `skills' ". Once he entered into a weeks long debate with a poster at H2O. He lost miserably, of course. His strategy is to obfuscate and to use big words; Mr. Clinton might ask 'what is your definition "is" ' whereas Mr. Stafford first asks "is "is" a word?" And then, what do we mean by "word" anyway. And when we ask "is `is'" which "is" are we wishing to define?

  He is good at one thing though, and that is praising himself. Tell me, at the interval did he rush off to a pay phone to call in, under an alias, to tell the listeners how good he was doing and how superb his debating skills were? Oh yes, and to announce that he had clearly won the debate andthat his opponent was inept. That's essentially what he did at H2O.

  Thanks for reminding me of one of life's sweeter moments on these boards. The day Mr. Stafford was found out in real time to be the charlatan that his writings show him to be.

  Lionel Hartley
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  27

  Logic of God escapes me

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in past posts i have placed god on trial by questioning two issues: 1) the issues in the graden of eden, and the severe punishment of the entire human race for a very minor act of eating fruit.

  2) god ordering the extermination of entire cities, including every last man, woman, child, baby, and even livestock.. results: the result on this forum have be mixed as expected, but showed a range from suport to tryuionmg top explain these events with reasoning, logic, or plausibilities.

  some felt that i might be losing my faith.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  Amazing,

  I think the problem is quite analgous to the following problem; explain the motions of the planets and other bodies assuming Earth is at the center of the Universe and that the Universe rotates around Earth. At some point contradictions and inexplicable observations will manifest themselves.

  So, the confusion surrounding the questions you ask may be a result of a faulty premise.

  Lionel Hartley
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  16

  Bethel move scrapped??

  by JEMIMAH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i recieved a telephone call from a prominent bethelite yesterday.

  he told me that the proposed london bethel move to milton keynes had been scrapped.

  the reason, brooklyn feel that since sept 11 the big a is so close less than a year away (right!!!!!

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  Norm,

  Pretty obvious really. They will affiliate with the Open University so that they can use their library, located in Milton Keynes.

  These guys will do anything to get a library card; it's those girls in horn rimmed glasses and swept up hair behind the front desk I think.

  Lionel
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  13

  Re: the WT's "library card" defense

  by CatholicGuy in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  we've seen internet copies of paul gillies letter and the translation of the letter sent to beroea.

  does anyone have a hard copy of a letter from the society in english that can be scanned in?

  it would seem that someone at the un could comment on the society's characterization that they never understood their membership as a ngo to be anything more than allowance to use the un library.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  Hawk,

  Notice that I said "seems to be working out..." In other words, in the typically smugly manner of Brooklyn, they assume that the brothers will just swallow whatever rumor they float.

  Lionel
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  13

  Re: the WT's "library card" defense

  by CatholicGuy in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  we've seen internet copies of paul gillies letter and the translation of the letter sent to beroea.

  does anyone have a hard copy of a letter from the society in english that can be scanned in?

  it would seem that someone at the un could comment on the society's characterization that they never understood their membership as a ngo to be anything more than allowance to use the un library.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  Merriam-Webster Online states:

  Main Entry: dis·in·gen·u·ous
  Pronunciation: "di-s&n-'jen-y&-w&s
  Function: adjective
  Date: 1655
  : lacking in candor; also : giving a false appearance of simple frankness
  : CALCULATING
  - dis·in·gen·u·ous·ly adverb
  - dis·in·gen·u·ous·ness noun
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  13

  Re: the WT's "library card" defense

  by CatholicGuy in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  we've seen internet copies of paul gillies letter and the translation of the letter sent to beroea.

  does anyone have a hard copy of a letter from the society in english that can be scanned in?

  it would seem that someone at the un could comment on the society's characterization that they never understood their membership as a ngo to be anything more than allowance to use the un library.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  Catholic Guy,

  To characterize the association, as the WTS has, as simply to obtain a library card is disingenuous. But, if that's all it was, then it makes the Society look even worse for at least two reasons;

  (i) They were prepared to agree to support the UN Charter and the UN's goals, and to do so in their literature, only to obtain access to a library. That is the ultimate selling out of one's birthright for a mess of potage.

  (ii) If they actually had affiliated purely for their own selfish advantage, then what an unchristian thing that would have been to do. Here Stephen Bates' targeting "theocratic war strategy" is a stroke of genius in that it shows that the WTS will do whatever it takes, including lying, to achieve its goals. These days the WTS would climb a tree to tell a lie when it could tell the truth on the ground.

  Thus, even when taken on its "merits" Gillies' letter is disgraceful and in no way excuses the Society's actions. Actually, Gillies' letter is a tissue of lies written with the clear purpose of deceiving not so much the press but Jehovah's Witnesses themselves.

  It is quite obvious that the "Shepherds in Brooklyn" do indeed know their sheep. Unfortunately, the sheep don't know their leaders who are stunning examples of "Wolves in sheep's clothing."

  I have no doubts that the leadership is quite happy that their little lie seems to be working out well for them. But, as they themselves know, "liars will not inherit the Kingdom." Perhaps You Know could comment on how this scripture, and the FDS's recent actions, align with his view that the WTS (which defines what JWs believe) is God's chosen organization.

  Lionel Hartley
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  32

  UN/WTBS - WTBS answer to all JWs

  by beroea in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  un/wtbs wtbs answer to all jws.

  i think almost everyone on this board is aware of the latest case about the un/wtbs connections.

  4 days later i receive an answer letter.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  What was it the Watchtower once said, "Why would anyone belong to a religion that lies to them?"
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  6

  New Technology New Laws (Bible?)

  by D wiltshire in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  new technology new laws (bible?).

  with the rather recent internet technology comes a bunch of new moral issues and new laws which need to be made to govern its use.. new laws governing the internet use would not make sense, if written 100 years ago in the past.. i think this nicely illustrates the fact that, the more we learn the more some things change.

  men are writing more and more laws as new issues come up, old issues also are re-examined and some old laws are discarded and more comprehensive new ones replace them.. the bibles 2 eye witnesses for a conviction was written, before photography, video, tape-recorders, or positive identification by fingerprints existed.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  D_wilshire,

  Good post. You asked:

  Would his superior knowledge cause him to do things that we would only understand if we lived past 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 years old.

  Quite possibly, assuming God exists. However, since we don't live that long then it is clear that if God is being supremely wise in doing what he does - or, more precisely, in not doing anything - then he has no desire to communicate that to humanity. Humans cannot really comprehend much beyond their own lifespan and, therefore, it is reasonable that humans operate on the same timescale as their lifespan.

  Most people's beliefs in God stem from a book that was clearly written with a very short time horizon, as your post illustrated, whether that book be the Koran, or some other. It doesn't make sense to me that a God who has lived so long would be so short sighted and neglectful in his dealings with humanity. Thus, it doesn't make sense that God exists. Evidence that he did would surely be reflected in writings which many use as the basis of their faith. Religious writings contain no great truths that cannot be found elsewhere. Thus, they must be assumed to have the same origins.

  Lionel
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  7

  Web Page on WTS-UN

  by Lionel_P_Hartley in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is, i must admit, a most confusing board to negotiate.

  however, i happened upon a fledgling project by a mr. bboyneko which appears to provide an excellent entree into the un issue.. http://www.bboyneko.com/jw/.

  lionel

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  This is, I must admit, a most confusing board to negotiate. However, I happened upon a fledgling project by a Mr. Bboyneko which appears to provide an excellent entree into the UN issue.

  http://www.bboyneko.com/jw/

  Lionel
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  5

  JW Molesters Mentioned News

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  below is the guardian article by stephen bates.

  as you read down you will find jw's mentioned along with the catholics as having serious problems with child molestation issues.

  think about it, a year ago this would have been unheard of, yet due to the efforts of so many who are no longer silentlambs, around the world jw's are comming to be compared with the catholics when it comes to hurting children.

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  Lionel_P_Hartley

  silentlambs,

  In addition, it has to be recognized that Mr. Bates became so interested in the JWs recently because of the UN scandal. While a much smaller issue in the big picture, it clearly illustrates how the sterling work of Hawkaw and others has paid off. It also demonsrates the need to recognize that all of the JW's problems stems from a single source; their idea that they speak for God. Progress will be made by attacking this notion wherever it may be found.

  Lionel