Posts by Lionel_P

1

The Tablet, The Watchtower, Child abuse and thewiz

by Lionel_P_Hartley in

thewiz has commented on how, because the tablet is a catholic weekly, we are all hypocrites for reading it, or attributing any weight to it.

likely it is out of ignorance that thewiz fails to recognize that the tablet is not published by the catholic church.

however, can anyone here imagine that paragon of truth, the watchtower, publishing a story like the following about a jw elder who molested children?

Lionel_P_Hartley

thewiz has commented on how, because the Tablet is a Catholic weekly, we are all hypocrites for reading it, or attributing any weight to it. Likely it is out of ignorance that thewiz fails to recognize that the Tablet is not published by the Catholic Church. However, can anyone here imagine that paragon of truth, the Watchtower, publishing a story like the following about a JW elder who molested children? http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/archive_db.cgi?tablet-00043 Of course, the WTS would make great capital out of a catholic priest who molests while covering up what happens in their own organization. Perhaps that should have been be featured in this month's hypocrisy article in the Watchtower.

So which journal is the more to be trusted? Can you answer, thewiz?

Lionel

ps: and here's another http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/archive_db.cgi?tablet-00427

46

UN involvement announced at Assembly?

by Simon in

i heard from someone that the wts was going to or had already announced something about the un involvement at an assembly.

anyone else heard of this or is it a local thing ?.

i would guess they may have only done this because of the coverage in the uk national newspaper which they know they have to counter.

Lionel_P_Hartley

thewiz,

I only assume that you had never heard of the Tablet until recently. Your characterization of this journal is absurd - can you imagine the Lords of the Borg in Brooklyn allowing the publication of something like this http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/archive_db.cgi?tablet-00043 in their Wathtower magazine (Brooklyn's Daily Liar)?

Your calm and mild spirit seems to have deserted you, as has your ability to respond to the actual charges contained in that excellent publication, the Tablet.

Lionel

46

UN involvement announced at Assembly?

by Simon in

i heard from someone that the wts was going to or had already announced something about the un involvement at an assembly.

anyone else heard of this or is it a local thing ?.

i would guess they may have only done this because of the coverage in the uk national newspaper which they know they have to counter.

Lionel_P_Hartley

anewperson,

Actually the Tablet has quite a substantial raedership in the US and Canada as well. If you go to http://www.thetablet.co.uk you can actually find out which specfic Churches in the US take it, although not individual subscribers obviously. Might be an idea to contact priests/bishops etc at those churches who will b esure to have read the story.

Lionel

20

WTS Encourages Hatred 1.12.01WT

by ISP in

jw
friends

examine the following statements and tell me if you think the wts is irresponsible in its furtherance of religious hatred which is an evil plaguing the world today.. 1 article 1. of the un declaration of human rights.

all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.

they are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.. .

Lionel_P_Hartley

I haven't read the article, but I do think that Earnest has a point. In all my time as a JW the emphasis was on hating "things" or "behavious" and not "people." Of course, the reality is that the acts JWs perform, e.g., shunning, are essentially the same as hating; nevertheless, JWs don't generally consider that they hate the person and will accept anyone back who repents according to JW rules.

I can also see the logic of quoting a dictionary's definition in its entirety and then using or emphasizing only one of the possible definitions. After all, what would a definition of hatred be if it didn't include the possibility of it referring to people. To me, too much is being read into this article, at least based on what I've read so far.

Lionel

46

UN involvement announced at Assembly?

by Simon in

i heard from someone that the wts was going to or had already announced something about the un involvement at an assembly.

anyone else heard of this or is it a local thing ?.

i would guess they may have only done this because of the coverage in the uk national newspaper which they know they have to counter.

Lionel_P_Hartley

BX,

The Tablet has a circulation of about 21,000 officially. However, the readership consists largely of professional clergy (many in very high places) and religious affairs correspondents of a variety of newspapers. In addition, copies in churches and church libraries may be read many others as well.

Why not send a copy of your letter to the editor of the Tablet at

[email protected]

I have written one, but the more they get the better. Especially do I like your slant on hypocrisy in November.

Lionel

ps: what is CCI? Do you have a link?

26

Steve Bates Article on UN/WTS in Tablet newspaper

by hawkaw in

steve's article has just been released.. i have posted the particulars and links on the big un thread and linked below.. ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=13530&page=22&site=3.

the tablet is a clergy newspaper that is read by a lot of high up people in both main churches in britian.. congratulations steve.

his article is front and centre.. .

Lionel_P_Hartley

waiting,

According to the Society the image of the Wild Beast and the Scarlet Colored Wild Beast are one and the same thing - the League/UN.

Lionel

18

Do JWs still believe the WT version of the 144000?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

the society have taught for many years that only 144,000 individuals will have embraced true worship from the time when jesus (and presumably john the baptist six months before him) began his ministry in about 30 c.e.

when the great crowd began to be drawn in.. however, even a casual reading of the book of acts shows the phenomenal growth of christianity during the time of the apostles.

in colossians ch1 paul even makes the comment that the good news had at that point been preached to all creation that was under heaven.. in 64 c.e, there were so many christians in rome already that nero felt he could easily blame them for the destructive fire which had swept through the city.

Lionel_P_Hartley

Ranchette said it....

20

How Reliable is the WT Observer?

by Pureheart in

jw
friends

sorry for duplicating this post.

i made a mistake and posted on the wrong forum.. my question is, can we rely on the observer to give us accurate information on the jws.

i ask this question because i have read many disturbing things about the society in its early beginnings.

Lionel_P_Hartley

Pureheart,

The WT Observer tends slightly to the sensationalist. Not everything it says is accurate but most of what it says merits investigation, and most is correct. Part of the problem with the small number of somewhat inaccuarte reports is that Kent, not being a native English speaker, sometimes misunderstands nuances in the language. This is only a problem because most WTS stuff is produced in English.

I am no supporter of the WTS, but don't rely on the Observer 100% unless you have done the research. It is, as I say, a jumping off point.

I do very much respect Kent's energies, and also his willingness to correct what he has posted when problems have been pointed out. But errors propagate proportional to the amount of stuff that one publishes.

Lionel Hartley

45

Two Elders Came To My Door

by silentlambs in

well i guess wt is getting tired of waiting me out.

two elders showed up at my door on halloween.

they were not trick or treating, at least i think they were notat least they did not have candy bags.

Lionel_P_Hartley

Much has been made of the rights of religions to impose discipline on their members. However, it seems to me, that it is a violation of the 1st (?) amendment to punish someone for their public expressions of free speech, particulatly when those expressions are actually consistent with the published views of their religion, and only inconsistent with the method by which the religion's standards are enforced. Further, it surely violates the USA constitution to punish people for speeking freely about things that they did not agree to in the first place; Most JWs did not agree to obey the org. no matter what it would teach in the future.

Threatening to sue the elders locally amd personally would probably work. Here is an interesting web site: marykenny.com

Lionel Hartley

21

Could I have your thoughts???

by mindfield in

jw
friends

more specifically, could you tell me your thoughts on verses such as:.

matthew 24:14. and could anyone give me some factual stats on the fact that jw's dont actually preach worldwide, or at least aren't recognized worldwide???.

and yes, i do need to be reassured!

Lionel_P_Hartley

Thirdson,

But Jehovah is a reader of hearts. True, coverage is sparse in the countries you mention - but who knows the mind of God? Will not Jehovah himself examine the heart? And cleave the very marrow from the bone? Is the Creator, who even notices even a sparrow that falls to the ground, incapable of weighing the heart condition of those "sons of men" who, by reason of circumstance, fail to be reached by the good news in these last days of the last days? What blasphemy it would be to impute to our loving Creator such acts. Rest assured, in the "Day of our Lord" the righteous man will be spared, shadowed as in Egypt when the angel of death slaughtered only those who would interfere with the working out of Jehovah's purpose. How glad we can be that we can cleave to God's loyal organization amidst a world in turmoil and disarray.

Lionel Hartley

Lionel_P_Hartley

Posts by Lionel_P_Hartley