Posts by Lionel_P

100

The Watchtower's Official Explanation of the Scand

by Kent in

[h3]here is the watchtower's official explanations on the un scandal![/h3.

the letter is, naturally - on the watchtower observer as well!.

yachyd da.

Lionel_P_Hartley

Not to be forgotten - and this should no we emphasized to journalists - is that an examination of the WTS's magazines _after_ 1991 showed that they did in fact spread information about the UN and markedly changed their tone about the UN, at least in Awake! magazine. This clearly shows that they understood the criteria.

Lionel

48

A WTS lie for UN "association"

by hawkaw in

full deposit: publications and masthead documents in english.

partial deposit: publications in english.

Lionel_P_Hartley

Youu Knoww,

It doesn't help at all; of course you are free to discount a long record of hypocrisy and lying by God's sole channel of communication with mankind but most wouldn't. As for the uniqueness of the WTS's relations with the UN, it isn't that special at all. Think of the currying of favor with the Nazis and, less directly, with the Mexican Military. However, primarily it is merely hypocrisy since the UN has no actual role in prophecy. The WTS may think it does, but it used to think that the World Court was the Scarlet-Coloured beastie until an update was called for. So, you see, the WTS only lies and acts the hypocrite because of its nutcase prophecies which have a 100% failure rate. The WTS, like you, continually updates (literally) its prophecies. "We have dates it cries. And if you don't like them, as you won't when we don't, then we have other dates ready to go."

By their fruits shall ye know them. Your casual dismissal of organized lying and hypocrisy by the Slave shows that you and they exhibit a common fruit - and it is rotten. In fact, it smells like an overripe durian to me.

Lionel

48

A WTS lie for UN "association"

by hawkaw in

full deposit: publications and masthead documents in english.

partial deposit: publications in english.

Lionel_P_Hartley

You Know,

Since you obviously didn't notice my post, let me ask again; explain how the Society's recent actions in regard to the UN affair (hypocrisy and then lying, in a somewhat juveline and You Know-esque fashion, to cover up their hypocrisy) differ from how the Society has operated in the past - since its inception in fact.

Can you do that? After all you must have time on yr hands now that your very latest October prediction has fizzled like the 6 - 7 that went before. So with yr Kingly ambitions reigned in, temporariliy of course, why not take a stab at actually proving yr assertions. That would be a first, I know, but you might even get to like it.

Sincerely,

Lionel

"The past is a foreign land - they do things differently there. But not when it comes to the WTS for which hypocrisy and lying is the same now as it was when these false prophets started."

48

A WTS lie for UN "association"

by hawkaw in

full deposit: publications and masthead documents in english.

partial deposit: publications in english.

Lionel_P_Hartley

You Know,

Your post would make some sense if one could trace the Society's history back to its origins and demonstrate (i) that recent actions are substantially at odds with past practice and (ii) that the WTS has only recently started to lie to cover up its mistakes, false prophetic speculations and its oscillatory doctrines.

Unfortunately, current WTS practice is fully consistent with the past. Ergo, the WTS has always been apostate since, obviously, God's true organization produces different fruits.

You yourself are also an example of the same type of dishonesty.

With best wishes,

Lionel

48

I've Had It - I Just Can't Do it Anymore

by troubled in

jw
friends

well, it seems we're back to the same "you're a troll; you're not a troll" thing.

it seems that my posts make too many of you "uncomfortable," you have an "intuition," you "can't put your finger on it," whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

i thought this was a place where people can post and be heard.

Lionel_P_Hartley

troubled,

You never struck me as a "troll" at all. You seem genuinely upset - something that trolls don't get. I also don't think you're leaving because you've been defeated. It takes a long time to figure this stuff out. You have raised some good points that merit discussion, not simply being labelled a "troll." Sometimes that's the lazy way out, although I am not targetting anyone here.

Good luck,

Lionel

21

Question about Accuracy & Persuasion

by troubled in

jw
friends

in my social psychology class, we are studying a chapter on persuasion.

here is an interesting excerpt from our study book, "social psychology: unraveling the mystery" by douglas kenrick, steven neuberg, and robert cialdini, page 171. please tell me if you think it applies to jws, ex-jws, and this board in general.. .

p. 170, "done deals".

Lionel_P_Hartley

troubled,

A logic class might help. The problem is that one has to be genuinely committed to unlearning the almost automatic thought processes that years in the org. inculcates. Sometimes a shock to one's reality is needed, otherwise it is just a really long process. Really, only the individual can do what is necessary to find the truth.

lionel

21

Question about Accuracy & Persuasion

by troubled in

jw
friends

in my social psychology class, we are studying a chapter on persuasion.

here is an interesting excerpt from our study book, "social psychology: unraveling the mystery" by douglas kenrick, steven neuberg, and robert cialdini, page 171. please tell me if you think it applies to jws, ex-jws, and this board in general.. .

p. 170, "done deals".

Lionel_P_Hartley

troubled,

You make some good points - however, it is possible to analyse information objectively once one has trained oneself to do that. For example, the scientific method can be used to analyse the validity of certain theories or hypotheses. It is simply not true that all information is equally valid and that its meaning depends on interpretation. There are well established logical devices that can be used to decide whether something is accurate, reasonable, verifiable, etc.

JWs may discount information that conflicts with the central dogma of their religion - that the GB speaks for God. However, objective analysis demonstrates that the GB does not speak for God and that they are in fact prepared to lie, as in the UN thing.

The WTS could, for example, simply publish all information relating to its application to the UN. Why doesn't it do that? Presumably it is because it understands only too well that doing so now would show them to be (i) hypocrites and (ii) liars. If what you said was correct, then it could simply publish everything and then argue that its interpretation of that material is such that the WTS did no wrong.

Lionel

46

UN involvement announced at Assembly?

by Simon in

i heard from someone that the wts was going to or had already announced something about the un involvement at an assembly.

anyone else heard of this or is it a local thing ?.

i would guess they may have only done this because of the coverage in the uk national newspaper which they know they have to counter.

Lionel_P_Hartley

Y,

:-)

46

UN involvement announced at Assembly?

by Simon in

i heard from someone that the wts was going to or had already announced something about the un involvement at an assembly.

anyone else heard of this or is it a local thing ?.

i would guess they may have only done this because of the coverage in the uk national newspaper which they know they have to counter.

Lionel_P_Hartley

thewiz,

Nobody is defending the Catholic Church. The Tablet is not an organ of the Catholic Church and can and will print whatever it likes, including articles that point to severe problems with the Catholic Church, as well as other religions. The WT magazine, otoh, contains demonstrable lies that the WTS refuses to correct.

That having been said, what eaxctly don't you like about Bates' article - other than that it was printed in the Tablet? Butthen again, what about his Guardian articles? Be specific and honestly tell us what's wrong with it. I'll start by noting that the article confuses the scarlet coloured beast with Babylon the Great. So, what else?

Lionel

26

Steve Bates Article on UN/WTS in Tablet newspaper

by hawkaw in

steve's article has just been released.. i have posted the particulars and links on the big un thread and linked below.. ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=13530&page=22&site=3.

the tablet is a clergy newspaper that is read by a lot of high up people in both main churches in britian.. congratulations steve.

his article is front and centre.. .

Lionel_P_Hartley

JanH,

You're right about what the Wild Beast and what the image of the beast are, according to the WTS. However, as MA points out, in Rev. 17 there is yet another beast, the scarlet-coloured one, which is different, according to the WTS from the orginal beast (yr beast!) and which the WTS maintains is the same as the image. See Babylon Book or Revelation Climax.

Lionel

Lionel_P_Hartley

Posts by Lionel_P_Hartley