Posts by LittleToe

37

JW Culture has Changed!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

in the late 1960s, i became a jw.

there was a sense of intellectual freedom and more openness to discuss various spiritual and even some social topics.

there was reliance on watch tower literature as an authority, but still the soiciety seem to confine its concerns and left the rest up to individual jws to decide.

Amazing:
You are so right!
This isn't the organization that I was brought up in, nor my parents before me. Frankly they just don't get it.
We're in an age of "Freedom of Information" and liberal thinking.
Even the governments realise that it's too late to put the genie back in the bottle.

Recent C.O. visit elders meetings have stressed the need to curtail Internet usage (following up on the bias in the literature).
Some poor saps have even confessed to having "seen a little porn on the web" (LOL).
Where will it all end? Where can it all end?
There may be large numbers coming in from the third world, but the Internet is everywhere.

To quote dungbeetle, "Run, Wt, run".

LT

Not my most lucid post, but then it's been a long day.

64

A few things I don't understand about the bible

by Leander in

jw
friends

there have always been things about the bible that never really made much sense to me.

not to say that i disagree with whats in the bible but i have wondered about the fairness of certain things.. 1. for example i've always even as a child thought that it was odd that so many people would die during armageddon.

now as an adult and i understand people better than i did years ago i really do feel puzzled about the fact that according to the scriptures the majority of mankind will perish.

LittleToe

Hi Jan,

As I posted previously, I'm not a proud man...
Kindly take this post as a full retraction.
Feel free to be smug about it, you have little to learn from me.

I'm neither infallable, nor would I expounding any "truth" other than the Christ.
I believe that the OT points to Christ, and the NT explains Him. Beyond that, the scriptures are merely a signpost. I'm not an inerrantist, simply a traveller who followed the signs and arrived at what I feel to be an appropriate waypoint.

To be frank, I don't enjoy threads with no banter - I'm just starting to enjoy life at last.
Neither do I enjoy aggressive, humourless, or condescending posts - I've been to too many dour elders meetings.
You may look down on me or take this as me running for cover, if you wish, but the truth is that this thread has become less enjoyable with each post. I've given up pursuing things that bring me no joy.
To be absolutely honest I found the most enjoyable post, for me, to be from Shelby.

I'm man enough to accept that there is plenty of evidence for nearly every viewpoint under the sun. We all take what we want from that rich tapestry and fashion our own world view.
If there is one thing that I believe is true it is that a stagnant and dogmatic world view is the saddest position of all.

I hope you find nothing to offend you, in this post, since that is not my intention. Thanks for the experience.
I bid you good day, kind sir.

LT

Wipes brow, throws another log on the fire, and reaches for Guinness

64

A few things I don't understand about the bible

by Leander in

jw
friends

there have always been things about the bible that never really made much sense to me.

not to say that i disagree with whats in the bible but i have wondered about the fairness of certain things.. 1. for example i've always even as a child thought that it was odd that so many people would die during armageddon.

now as an adult and i understand people better than i did years ago i really do feel puzzled about the fact that according to the scriptures the majority of mankind will perish.

LittleToe

Hi Jan,

You've attacked another straw man, since I never stated that Daniel was around in the 6th Cent. B.C., only that "there are many theories, dating all the way back to the 6th Cent. B.C.".

I have posted the reference works, just not chapter and verse.
If you really want, I'll get them for you.

You challenge me to justify my assertion about the Roman empire, so this I will attempt to do, since that was the only point that I suggested was "compelling".

Meanwhile, perhaps you'd like to further support your stance on 164 B.C., in light of the carbon dating data.

Finally, is there any way of moving this portion of the thread into "Biblical", since it has to be annoying the hell out of the "Main" forum?

LT

Go on - Tak a drink!!!

43

UN vs WT -It doesn't matter

by Dan B in

jw
friends

does anybody honestly think that all this exposure about the wtb&ts and the un really going to matter much in the jw community?

sure, it matters to us, since we already know the truth about the wt.

but it won't even make a dent in the jw population.

LittleToe

Tril:

once the toothpaste is out of the tube it cannot be put back

Sadly they have the habit of trying to do just that.
Unfortunately it is usually whilst everyone is otherwise distracted brushing their teeth.

I can't see how they can get out of explaining this recent course of action, in the midst of the "Information Age".
I think the waste paper baskets in the writing department will be overflowing with paper balls.
As for whether or not they do comment, time will tell.
I think it unlikely, personally.

LT

24

Help & What are the blessings in YOUR life?

by Billygoat in

jw
friends

these thoughts have been triggered by one of esmerelda's posts about the lesson she learned from her daughter.

if you haven't read it, please do.

it is beautifully written!

LittleToe

Strangely enough, just this morning I was reflecting on my blessings.
Beautiful wild flowers, birds in the sky, the sun glancing off of water.
I then imagined a childs laughter, to make the scene complete.

9/11 haunts me everyday.
Prayer has helped me through the hard times.
Some view it as a crutch...so be it, it has helped me.

LT

64

A few things I don't understand about the bible

by Leander in

jw
friends

there have always been things about the bible that never really made much sense to me.

not to say that i disagree with whats in the bible but i have wondered about the fairness of certain things.. 1. for example i've always even as a child thought that it was odd that so many people would die during armageddon.

now as an adult and i understand people better than i did years ago i really do feel puzzled about the fact that according to the scriptures the majority of mankind will perish.

LittleToe

Jan:
Sorry, my friend, you are creating straw men.

My main contention was that the rise of the Roman empire was predicted.
The Roman Empire did not seize control of Syro-Palestine until 63 B.C.

You're making this up now, aren't you?

You know that I'm not making it up.
If you don't like my sources, then say so, but don't accuse me of invention.
Your whole demeanor, on this thread, has been condescending. There really is no call for that. You are very naughty.

You have taken one theory regarding the date of the book's authoring and proposed it as fact. The main argument for this theory is that the comments in Daniel are too precise.
The truth is that there are many theories, dating all the way back to the 6th Cent. B.C., some of which seem to gain additional support in the light of the carbon dating of the Dead Sea Scrolls (placing a copy of Daniel in Qumran around 160 B.C.).

LT

Now bottoms up, there's drinking time aspoiling

64

A few things I don't understand about the bible

by Leander in

jw
friends

there have always been things about the bible that never really made much sense to me.

not to say that i disagree with whats in the bible but i have wondered about the fairness of certain things.. 1. for example i've always even as a child thought that it was odd that so many people would die during armageddon.

now as an adult and i understand people better than i did years ago i really do feel puzzled about the fact that according to the scriptures the majority of mankind will perish.

LittleToe

Jan:
Arrgghhhh!!!
I forgot to add that the LXX was completed about 200BC.
Where are your sources for Daniel being written after this date - you stated that it was written during the 2nd Cent. BC, not the 3rd.

LT

Clink "Chin, chin"

64

A few things I don't understand about the bible

by Leander in

jw
friends

there have always been things about the bible that never really made much sense to me.

not to say that i disagree with whats in the bible but i have wondered about the fairness of certain things.. 1. for example i've always even as a child thought that it was odd that so many people would die during armageddon.

now as an adult and i understand people better than i did years ago i really do feel puzzled about the fact that according to the scriptures the majority of mankind will perish.

LittleToe

Jan:
Okay, I'm not a proud man...

I retract the "tradition states that Alexander..." comment due to it's having an unauthenticated heritage.
The earliest mention that I can find of it is in Josephus Antiquities if the Jews Book XI Chapter 8.
Personally that is enough for me, since he was only 400 years from the date in question, however I do understand that some (after an additional 1900 years from Josephus record) feel this source inadequate.
I don't retract the statement "To be totally spurious you would have to prove them such", however, since you have interjected an absolute into the equation that I have serious problems with.

I don't retract the comment about "the LXX has stood", as I clarified the context to SixofNine.

Neither do I retract the comment about my allusion to the Roman dynasty, since I was refering to the "world empire" sections (Daniel 2 & 7). This is covered in ANY good commentary.
I personally reference:
Jamieson, Fausset and Brown's Commentary
Matthew Henry's Commentary
John Wesley's Explanatory Notes
In addition Josephus, recording Daniel's comments as history, in Antiquities book x.

I never mentioned emperors, you did.
You may be mixing me up with some other dude who commented on the King of the North/South.
I never made this clear, but then you never asked.

In all honesty you weren't particularly fair, since I had already stated that I wasn't in striking distance of my references.

Now in good Viking spirit, join me in a drink!!!
Then we'll do battle again another day

LT

45

Is the Path to Salvation Clear?

by JosephAlward in

inerrantists believe that every word in the bible is literally true; to believe otherwise, they say, is to remove the foundation upon which one may have a certain understanding of how one may achieve salvation and reach the kingdom of heaven.

that makes perfect sense, on one level.

if one could indeed know that everything in the bible is true, then one would just have to turn to the part where the method of salvation is described, do what the bible says, and live forever.

LittleToe

Joseph:

I tend to try not to be so conscious of the audience.

Your comment about "reference" is correct, but I assure you that is better to use direct address.
That having been said - what have the Romans ever done for us?

Back to the thread - You're making some interesting points.
I don't neccesarily agree with them, but that's my perogative.
At the end of the day, surely this is what this forum is all about - debate and discussion on the bible.

Pom:
Sorry to interrupt the flow of your debate, pal.
Keep up the good work.

LT

45

Is the Path to Salvation Clear?

by JosephAlward in

inerrantists believe that every word in the bible is literally true; to believe otherwise, they say, is to remove the foundation upon which one may have a certain understanding of how one may achieve salvation and reach the kingdom of heaven.

that makes perfect sense, on one level.

if one could indeed know that everything in the bible is true, then one would just have to turn to the part where the method of salvation is described, do what the bible says, and live forever.

LittleToe

Sorry, if it was my misunderstanding, however I've always followed the standard practice of lurking in a forum for a while to guage the temperament, form and usage of a given forum, before posting.
It was my understanding that this is an unusual form of address on this particular board, where direct address is more often applied.

On a more personal note, I just hate being refered to in the third person.

Just my 2p

LT