as a baptized jehovah's witness, i have been tested over the years by those very ones who claim they are entrusted with my soul.
i'll digress a moment to state that one strong theory that has deeply troubled me over the years, centers around their transformation over a century into a caricaturistic representation of christendom.
(refer definition of caricature at http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=caricature for clarification.).
I hate to see such an interesting thread go cold...
Derek:
The GB is anointed, so the comparison to Judas might not prove valid.By their fruits...
LT
this is nothing new but there seems to be a lot of advice on what to do when the elders call you to meet with them before a judicial committee.
at the risk of sounding arrogant, ill give you the perspective that i had as an elder sitting on a judicial committee.
it doesnt matter if youre before the committee for apostasy, fornication, smoking, drinking or anything else.
You can spin it out for weeks/months if you "arrange" a date far enough away, then persistantly don't attend for a legitimate reason.
It really depends on how much trouble you want to cause if you think it's a foregone conclusion.
Roy:
You're right - most guys go in with a preconception of the result.
LT
this is nothing new but there seems to be a lot of advice on what to do when the elders call you to meet with them before a judicial committee.
at the risk of sounding arrogant, ill give you the perspective that i had as an elder sitting on a judicial committee.
it doesnt matter if youre before the committee for apostasy, fornication, smoking, drinking or anything else.
Puff:
Was that in the days of the congregation servant. They used to go in heavy handed as a commitee of one.
Other than that, a DF'ing should only occur, without the individual, if they fail to attend having been given fair notice.
Even if they DNA, they should be given another chance if the reason for non-attendance is fair.
Sadly, many just want to dole out the punishment, without following any guideline barring the law of themselves!
LT
this is nothing new but there seems to be a lot of advice on what to do when the elders call you to meet with them before a judicial committee.
at the risk of sounding arrogant, ill give you the perspective that i had as an elder sitting on a judicial committee.
it doesnt matter if youre before the committee for apostasy, fornication, smoking, drinking or anything else.
Maybe many work that way, but I never have.
I always prefered to err on the side of mercy.
If someone wasn't repentant, the chances were they would be up before the JC again pretty soon.
I've always seen DF'ing as psychologically devastating. I hate the whole concept.
It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Just my 2p,
LT
as a baptized jehovah's witness, i have been tested over the years by those very ones who claim they are entrusted with my soul.
i'll digress a moment to state that one strong theory that has deeply troubled me over the years, centers around their transformation over a century into a caricaturistic representation of christendom.
(refer definition of caricature at http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=caricature for clarification.).
Hillary:
It is almost like a ‘rape’, an emotional rape, that looking back we could have prevented and it really pains us to realize this.
Some of us were born in, hence couldn't "have prevented it". The pain comes when we realise that we were abused and never knew anything differant when we grew into adults.
Derrick:
Judas wasn't anointed.
LT
many people leave the wts after a short period, often only measured in weeks, of theological discovery.
it is not an easy matter to recognize that the belief system upon which your whole emotional persona has been built has serious flaws, some sinister in nature, and often this leads to a rapid confrontation with the elders.
letters, most of them depressingly repetitive in content hit service desks in local branches worldwide, a few weeks later a sterile announcement is made in a congregation and the apostate conveyor belt shifts forward slightly, waiting for its next victim.. suddenly many find themselves outside in the cold, with little support, often without friends, sometimes with fatally wounded marriages and above all a crippling sense of confusion as to what one should now adhere to as a belief system.. my plea in this post if for all those caught in that no-mans-land, between the wts and the deep blue sea, not to play by the rules thrust upon you, but to plot your own passage over the seas of what is your life, and yours alone.
Like zev, I'm on schedule.
I would leave today if I didn't have family.
The "fatally wounded marriage" is my only fear.
As an elder it's even more difficult to leave swiftly, without DA'ing.
So we'll see what happens, but I'd like to make it a good one !
LT
yes, being changed into a spirit creature.
that is essentially what is implied in watch tower theology about the anointed!, 144,000. the "change" is mostly understood to be at death of an aointed jw.
but ... there is more to it than that .... if you read wts publications on anointing, start with the january 15th, 1952 watchtower, pages 63 and 64, i cited in my previous post some months ago, you will see the implication that part of the process starts while still in the flesh.. jw anointed are said to have their hopes 'changed' so that they no longer desire 'earthly' things, but now focus on heavenly, desiring to be in heaven with god, etc.
I'm only a babe, so I'll throw in my 2p in the hope that the big boys will clarify things for me. My understanding is evolving daily.
if they felt the 'change' to being a spirit - sort of - being trapped in the body of a human.
I feel weighed down, with an acute awareness of daily sinful tendancies that never even figured on my consciousness, before.
Further, a yearning to be with my Lord has arisen.
Trapped and wanting escape? Yup.
Give it up right now? Something is holding me back, which I interpret as a "quest" whilst still having this mortal coil.
I imagine that ignoring the calling might dull that down, but that's hardly making sure (solidifying?) the calling and choosing (2Pet.1:10).
The congregation is the body of Christ (Eph.1:22,23).
Seems to me that there's no mention of another class in the congregation, besides the basic distinction of Jews and Gentiles.
There were possibly hundreds of thousands of Christians killed in the "ten persecutions" starting in Nero's time.
There we go - I'm exposed for all the world to see and ridicule .
LT
if you were to check out www.charity-commission.gov.uk.
you would find if you typed in ibsa the following registration number would show: 216647. as far as we know, for we are now awaiting a response, it is illegal all over the country for charities to solicit from door to door unless they have a full identity card, something which the wtbts has flouted law on for many years.. in view of current events, surely they must be able to see the wisdom of such an approach.
i mean its not exactly unreasonable when you really think about it, what the state is asking them to do.
celtic:
Were you still in during '93 when they brought out "free" literature in Britain?
There were strict instructions not to bring up the subject of money.
If the householder suggested making a donation, that was okay.
This was to get around the soliciting laws, hence no permit is required.
There may be an angle to pursue regarding child abusers.
Congregations now make a "Child Protection" list containing the names of individuals who have been even accused of abuse (I believe).
This is a list that the congregation makes so there are no "official" Society forms for it. I guess that is to get around legal complications, too.
LT
in the late 1960s, i became a jw.
there was a sense of intellectual freedom and more openness to discuss various spiritual and even some social topics.
there was reliance on watch tower literature as an authority, but still the soiciety seem to confine its concerns and left the rest up to individual jws to decide.
Amazing:
A friend of mine was on as a District Assembly Talk Coordinator. He expressed interest that they weren't looking so much for spiritual men, or good speakers, as "voice quality".
None of the brothers, that he proposed, got on the Assembly that year.
Pork Chop:
I've seen Public Talk monitoring done before, too, although it is rare these days. It might have been a point made by C.O.'s.
On an aside, this once worked out badly for one brother :)
The brother in question had been under a great deal of mental stress, and blanked out about halfway through. He didn't know where in the outline he was, as he had given the talk so many times he barely used it anymore.
After he waffled for a few minutes, his monitor brought the fresh outline up.
The poor brother lifted an outline in each hand and said "Oh...now he's given me another outline...now I really don't know where I am!".
Sadly the brother tried to continue, waffled for another 30 minutes, and got off.
LT
someone tell me quick how wrong and stupid i am to even think about cheating on my husband.. i've met someone that has swept me off my feet and with my newfound freedom from leaving the borg, i feel like i'm going through a mid-life crisis or something.
i'm very tempted to have an affair.
i mean, extremely tempted.
I guess you'll be reading this on your return.
Just got to add to the volume of the response you got...
Don't do it PA!!!
If you don't screw it up for yourself and your hubby physically, the emotional and psychological damage will still remain and you will hurt for a looong time. I've seen it far too often.
Sounds as if life has taken a turn for the best with you pair.
Keep it growing...and growing...and growing...
No matter how romantic a guy is, he still growls and f*rts from time to time (sorry Prisca, it's true ).
Try to transfer the existing emotions onto your hubby. He'll love you for it!
Oh, and you might want to look for another coffee shop, while you're at it.
Just 2p, from another hopeless romantic.
LT
