Posts by Knowsnothing

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Knowsnothing

Why should we conclude"God" to have feelings like ours?Isn't this a pure assumption?

Not if you base yourself on the Bible. There, it shows all his range of emotions.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Knowsnothing

From the article:

Many scientists believe extinction of animal species is taking place at an accelerated rate.

All those creatures, from the smallest to the largest, had the Creator’s loving concern.

I wonder where he was when the dinosaurs went into extinction through a catastrophic event, such as either a meteor impact or volcanic winter?

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Knowsnothing

http://www.jw.org/index.html?option=QrYQCsVrGZNT

Awake December 2011.

Does God care about animals?

ANIMAL life is in peril. Many scientists believe extinction of animal species is taking place at an accelerated rate. Animals are suffering the devastating consequences of human encroachment. Industrial food production, cruel blood sports, and callous abandonment of pets add to this grim picture.

Some feel, however, that such a picture is the inevitable price of human progress. But is that what God intended? Has he abandoned
animal creation to suffer at the hands of humans? How do we know that God cares about animals?

Care Evident From the Start

After God’s creation of fish, birds, and land animals, God was pleased. The Bible says that he “got to see that it was good.” (Genesis 1:21, 25) All those creatures, from the smallest to the largest, had the Creator’s loving concern. God not only created them “instinctively wise” but also made provisions for them to flourish in their environment. As a Bible writer aptly stated: “All of them—for you they keep waiting to give them their food
in its season. What you give them they pick up. You open your hand—they get satisfied with good things.”—Proverbs 30:24; Psalm 104:24, 25, 27, 28.

True, God made animals subject to the first man, Adam. They were not designed with reasoning ability or the capacity for spirituality. (2 Peter 2:12; Jude 19) In contrast, Adam was a higher life-form, created “in God’s image.” He was able to reflect the personality
of his Creator, Jehovah. (Genesis 1:27; Psalm 83:18) But this did not give humans license to exercise authority over animals independent
of their Creator.

For example, Adam began naming the animals because Jehovah extended that privilege to him. Moreover, Jehovah assisted Adam by “bringing [the animals] to the man to see what he would call each one.” (Genesis 2:19) Only by working under his Creator’s direction
could man be successful in caring for the animals.

God Really Does Care!

Sadly, Adam rebelled against his Creator. His rebellion brought devastating consequences to the human family and to all life on earth. The Creator, however, made clear how animals were to be treated. Although man was eventually permitted to use them for food and other practical purposes, God never sanctioned cruel treatment of them. The Bible says: “The righteous one is caring for the soul of his domestic animal, but the merciesof the wicked ones are cruel.”—Proverbs 12:10.

God even gave the ancient nation of Israel laws that addressed the welfare of animals. The arrangement for a Sabbath, a day of complete rest each week, benefited the Israelites’ animals in that they too could rest. (Exodus 23:12) Significantly, although no work was allowed on this sacred day, people were to come to the aid of a distressed animal. (Luke 14:5) God further directed that cattle were not to be deprived of food while they worked, and animals were not to be put under an extreme burden. (Exodus 23:5; Deuteronomy 25:4) Yoking a bull and a donkey together was prohibited, preventing injury to either animal. (Deuteronomy 22:10) Clearly, the Bible teaches that animals were to be treated with propriety, respect, and compassion!

Though many people focus on their own concerns and ignore any consequences to animals, God compassionately considers them. When the prophet Jonah reacted unmercifully when the inhabitants of Nineveh repented and were spared God’s judgment, Jehovah stated: “For my part, ought I not to feel sorry for Nineveh the great city, in which there exist more than one hundred and twenty thousand men who do not at all know the difference between their right hand and their left, besides many domestic animals?” (Jonah 4:11) Yes, the Creator felt pity even for the animals!

Future Care Is Assured

Clearly, God is not insensitive to how animals are treated. His beloved Son, Jesus, even said that a single sparrow does not fall to the ground without his Father’s knowledge. (Matthew 10:29) In contrast, even with the best of intentions, humans do not fully understand how their actions influence the environment. Managing human society in a way that shows regard for wildlife requires a change in mankind’s
thinking.

Happily, the Bible describes the time when under God’s Kingdom rule, “the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah.” (Isaiah 11:9) Such knowledge will provide obedient humans with the education and training they need to manage the earth properly. The Creator’s influence will then ensure that harmony prevails between man and beast, thus restoring the conditions on earth that God originally purposed.

The Bible describes the transformation that will then take place, explaining: “The wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand.” What a glorious prospect to contemplate!—Isaiah 11:6-8.

HAVE YOU WONDERED?

? Does God care how animals are
treated?—Proverbs 12:10; Matthew 10:29.

? Is complete harmony between man and
animals possible?—Isaiah 11:6-9.

51

Theists - Please Explain This.......

by AK - Jeff in

and please don't do so with the standard "i don't know the answer - but there surely must be one.

" or some other lame attempt to defend god/bible without a real explanation.. here goes:.

i find it incredibly interesting how hard the mind works to prevent rational thought when it suits it's purpose.

Knowsnothing

Then chapter 12, just a few days later:

Exodus 12:1,13,29 On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD. The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt... At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

I bet you those sneaky Egyptians stole some Israelite livestock before this plague.

182

It makes no sense whatsoever that a" CREATOR" would only communicate with a minority of the population then put the onus on them to convey this life saving message to the WHOLE wide world

by smiddy in

i now find it idiotic that i could ever beleive the bible to be the inspired word of god.....,throughout the bible "god"has only dealt with a few of his favoured spokespersons to deliver his messages to a minority populace.individuals at first,..... then, patriarchs,nomads,a small nation,ignoring all other nations that had sprung up.......,abandoning his chosen nation,sending his "son"to a small nation, only giving them his pearls of wisdom,much of what was not even recorded for prosperity and remember he never wrote a word,it was left up to other imperfect humans to record what he was supposed to have said,just a smidgen......,again ignoring the bulk of humankind keeping them in ignorance of his plan for universal salvation,leaving it all up to imperfect humans to spread this message of salvation, whom he has already condemned for their sinfullness and disobedience.i just find it so unbeleivable.

in the 6000 years of recorded history only a fraction of the earths population,maybe less than a third have ever heard of the god of the bible, or his so called plan to redeem humankind ,thats millions and millions of people.

( india,arabic,afghanistan,pakistan etc.etc.).

Knowsnothing

I'll play JW advocate here. Haven't they simply explained this as being part of the answer of the question of Universal Sovereignty and also Hebrews 24:15, resurrection of righteous and unrighteous.

Of course, that still doesn't explain Armaggedon and the killing of billions for rejecting JW's message.

140

The Probabilty of there being an Intelligent Designer

by cantleave in

i have been thinking a great deal about where i stand at this moment in time in terms of a belief in a creator verses a belief in an evolutionary process.

i think the best way to describe it is an exploratory path.

i look at what is around me and i acknowledge it is remarkable.

Knowsnothing

I haven't read all of the posts, I'll just comment. I think probability fails in explaining certain things. While there are certain things that seem impossible, statistically speaking, they happen or have happened anyways.

I ask, is probabilty a good measurement for reality?

7

Any good explanations for 2 Chronicles 36:17-21?

by Knowsnothing in

from the niv:.

17 he brought up against them the king of the babylonians,[g] who killed their young men with the sword in the sanctuary, and did not spare young men or young women, the elderly or the infirm.

god gave them all into the hands of nebuchadnezzar.

Knowsnothing

Oy, thanks!

77

1914: Still Important to Watchtower in 2012

by leavingwt in

.

98 years later, the 1914 date is still important to the watchtower organization.. .

below is a screenshot of a portion of page 19 from the may 15, 2012 watchtower magazine.. .

Knowsnothing

Another interesting question would be - how are they going to explain about being wrong about the King of the North? Who is the new King of the North going to be?

Given they've already been bold and brash enough to revise the Revelation - Grand Climax book, it wouldn't be too troublesome to do the same for the King of the North. I doubt they would completely rework everything they've published. They will do it in bits and pieces, like 1984.

God, I just love referencing 1984.

32

jwfacts.com

by allyouneedislove in

i had a few comments to make regarding paul grundy's jwfact.com website.

these comments are in no way meant to defend jws, but only to point out illogical statements.

i have actually found his website to be quite informative.. .

Knowsnothing

The Governing Body or Elders were not physically holding them from doing so. I am a big proponent of people recognizing that they have free will, no matter how difficult the consequences may be that follow.

Mmmhmm. Do it, or be shunned. Not much of a choice. To top it off do it, or in GB's belief, transgress before God.

Grundy would have us believe that anyone should compromise on their personal beliefs, just so as not to become an object of hatred. This is not an idea I subscribe to.

No. The problem is these particular people's personal beliefs were shaped, molded, crafted by the GB so as to believe their actions were pleasing God. The ultimate responsibility lies at the hands of GB.

This statement is very questionable. Again, Grundy is minimizing the fact that every human should have the right to choose. I feel that he is implying that no Malawian JW agreed with the position on purchasing a party card.

Whether an individual agreed is not important. They were collectively forbidden from holding cards, under threat of DF. There in lies the problem.

7

Any good explanations for 2 Chronicles 36:17-21?

by Knowsnothing in

from the niv:.

17 he brought up against them the king of the babylonians,[g] who killed their young men with the sword in the sanctuary, and did not spare young men or young women, the elderly or the infirm.

god gave them all into the hands of nebuchadnezzar.

Knowsnothing

From the NIV:

17 He brought up against them the king of the Babylonians, [g] who killed their young men with the sword in the sanctuary, and did not spare young men or young women, the elderly or the infirm. God gave them all into the hands of Nebuchadnezzar. 18 He carried to Babylon all the articles from the temple of God, both large and small, and the treasures of the LORD’s temple and the treasures of the king and his officials. 19 They set fire to God’s temple and broke down the wall of Jerusalem; they burned all the palaces and destroyed everything of value there.

20 He carried into exile to Babylon the remnant, who escaped from the sword, and they became servants to him and his successors until the kingdom of Persia came to power. 21 The land enjoyed its sabbath rests; all the time of its desolation it rested, until the seventy years were completed in fulfillment of the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah.

Now, is this text saying what I think it's saying? That Jerusalem lay desolate for 70 years? I've seen Doug Mason's critique along with AnnOmaly's posts and I've used the search function but, I can't find anything that deals with this text well. Any help? I appreciate it.