was the snake or serpent created perfect, god saw it was.
good.
so if the serpent or snake(presumably innocent).
I just had to respond to Terry when he asks, "What possible advantage could so-called "Free" Will give something you create?".
Tell me something, me frien': Say you wanted a life companion. Would you rather have a real life flesh and blood woman, who might have headaches some evenings, or would you rather have a blow-up doll that never refuses? (Grin)
hi, peeplezs,.
down over the years i have experienced plenty of discouragement and cynicism about faith and the existence of a god who cares for us.
if i allowed myself to dwell on those things alone, i suppose that i too would be feeling hopeless and cynical and would be just waiting until my time is up.. however, i don't feel that way at all.
AGuest, N. Drew, & watersprout - Thanks! These things are experiences that have made life worth living and have kept me going when things looked impossible. I'm glad you enjoyed them!
TD & cofty - Far from my disagreeing on your observations, I agree with them. My point is not that something WILL take place in the future, but that we don't have the knowledge to rule out things just because our knowledge at the present time seems to rule them out. To illustrate: if we lived in Salem back in the 1690's and made the mistake of walking across the room and flipping a switch, so that light flooded the room, we would probably have been hung as witches. Witchcraft would have been the only explanation they would have understood back in those days.
Likewise, even 50 years ago the modern forms of communication would have been considered "impossible", and we would have been viewed as crackpots for suggesting that they could be here. However, it seems that the "impossible" has a disturbing habit of becoming possible, if not commonplace, especially in the last couple of hundred years.
So my observation and point is that we should keep an open mind. Yes, we have gained in knowledge, but I think in the long run we will find that our advancement is similar to Einstein's reputed description of his contribution to scientific knowledge, as being about the same as the man who was studying the moon but wanted a closer look at it, so he crawled up on the roof.
This would especially hold true if we are studying God's creations. Now, I'm not implying that God exists in this scenario (I do believe in Jehovah, but I am suspending that for the purpose of dealing with this question), but I am saying that if there is a God and we are examining his creations, then we need to operate from the standpoint of realizing that we would be dealing with intelligences that are superior to ours. That, in turn, should make us realize that some of the things we discover should confound our doubts and skepticism. Those things that seem totally nonsensical now could very easily become quite possible if other factors, ones that we may not even be aware of now, become known later.
After all, even 30 years ago, scientists would have laughed us under the table if we would have suggested that lakes could explode. Now we know they can. (Look up "limnic eruption" in the Wikipedia.) The things they learned from that is what scared the living bejabbers out of N.O.A.A. scientists during the Gulf oil spill. (One of them is a friend of mine, so I have inside information that never hit the news.)
So to illustrate my main point: who is to say that he who created DNA couldn't "tweak" it to change the very things that you bring up, when conditions are right? Ridiculous you say? Perhaps. But how do we rule it out?
Don't get me wrong here: I am not saying that we have to accept anything, including the Bible itself, without examination. I feel that such a demand is the concoction of man-made religion. Instead, if I read the Bible correctly, it recommends that we have a questioning mind on all subjects.
I would also say, though, that the wholesale rejection of whole areas of inquiry like most scientists do, just because they presume it is all superstition and therefore beneath them, is neither wise nor intellectually honest.
Clarity - I understand where you are coming from. True, I wrote the post, although the school report is exactly as he wrote it, including the spelling errors and improper English.
I wrote this a few months ago to be used in another application, and she was interviewed and given a copy of it at that time for her approval. She liked it.
I realize this may seem strange to you, but please keep in mind that how we view things can be quite different depending on the individual and their approach to life. Like I said in my last answer to you, "My life has been different than most for one simple reason: most allow fear to run their lives, and I haven't. The result is that I've gotten into many things that most people wouldn't dream of, and a lot feel are impossible. Danger has been a constant companion, and I like it that way.
Perhaps I should have added that being different like that meant that I received an endless string of condemnation for being "reckless", "irresponsible", etc., etc. However, I have been rewarded beyond all expectations for having the courage to buck the condemnation and proceed on that course. Thankfully, this attitude seems to have rubbed off on her too.
One of the areas this especially applies to is as I wrote in the original post: "The way that women have been reduced to second class citizens and taken advantage of down over the years has always grieved me. Therefore I tried my best to give them not only the knowledge of what they were, but a respect and appreciation for how they were created. That meant giving them a knowledge and understanding of the entire process."
Now how could I have that respect and appreciation, and how could they get it if we are so ashamed of it that we won't speak of it? These things were created by our heavenly father, and did he not say after they were created that they were "very good"? (Gen. 1:31) I tried my best to give them the understanding and strength necessary to resist the influences that would demean them, whether they come from inside the Organization or outside. I wanted them to be able to stand tall and be glad they were women, and to know in their heart that this creation is clean, healthy, and beautiful, and that only corrupted hearts will pretend otherwise. I wanted them to take pride in what they are, not the "I'm better than you!" type of false pride, but the quiet inner peace of knowing that they were exactly what they were meant to be, and that it was "very good".
Do you have any idea of how freeing that knowledge is? And how can such freedom exist if we cannot speak of it?
No, I am not saying that you have a corrupted heart. However, I suspect that the constant putdowns from so-called "authorities" towards womanhood may have had its effect upon you, and that being freed of such indoctrination would make your life far more enjoyable and productive.
Thanks, elderelite! That was an interesting site! As for the "weird" part, keep in mind that this wasn't her idea. It was the fawn's! She went along with it because it caught her by surprise and it was an emergency situation.
Also, I liked the question raised on the site. If we drink cow's milk, then why would it be wrong to feed a fawn people milk?
How does a fella go about posting pictures on here?
Tom
hi, peeplezs,.
down over the years i have experienced plenty of discouragement and cynicism about faith and the existence of a god who cares for us.
if i allowed myself to dwell on those things alone, i suppose that i too would be feeling hopeless and cynical and would be just waiting until my time is up.. however, i don't feel that way at all.
I'd like to add a few words to clarity.
I truly understand and sympathize about having "swallowed too many stories" in the past. Yes, a certain amount of skepticism is healthy, but too much of it can make for an awfully boring and lonely life, because the good things get rejected before they have a chance.
My life has been different than most for one simple reason: most allow fear to run their lives, and I haven't. The result is that I've gotten into many things that most people wouldn't dream of, and a lot feel are impossible. Danger has been a constant companion, and I like it that way.
You apparently read a few things wrong in what I wrote. That didn't happen to my wife. It was my daughter, and Sol is my grandson. Secondly, as Sol said in his story, the faun was so small that its body wasn't much bigger than a loaf of bread. The only thing that would take up much room would be those long spindly legs. Plus, the astonishing point of the story was that the faun was hungry and wouldn't be denied. One would indeed think that it would struggle to get away like you say, but it did the opposite.
And be careful about the "large lap" comments! LOL!!! My daughter is a beautiful woman who has a considerable amount of experience in modeling. She may have had four kids now, but she still has her school girl figure!
And yes, deer and human breasts are much different. However, I know babies. They don't care what shape the breast is. They just want a nipple. (Grin)
Comments like yours make me feel good though. If I have lived a life where people won't believe it when I tell them the truth of what happened, then it must have been a pretty good life! A lot of people do that, but when they get to know me it freaks them out when they come to the realization that my tales are usually understated!
Tom
hi, peeplezs,.
down over the years i have experienced plenty of discouragement and cynicism about faith and the existence of a god who cares for us.
if i allowed myself to dwell on those things alone, i suppose that i too would be feeling hopeless and cynical and would be just waiting until my time is up.. however, i don't feel that way at all.
Hi, Folks,
Thanks, Nancy! And may God bless you too!
Cofty - I appreciate your analysis and careful reasoning. Believe me though, I don't look at nature with rose colored glasses. I've spent years in collecting, freezing, and selling stinging insects (primarily yellowjackets and hornets) to pharmaceutical companies so that they can take the venom out of them to make the anti-allergy shots. I'd say a conservative estimate of the nests that I've taken would be about 10,000, and after the first one or two, all rose colored hues are gone, except of course, where they sat on me. (Grin)
The prime ones I know are the pensylvanica and vulgaris in the Vespula category (the common and western yellowjackets), and the arenaria and maculata of the Dolichovespula (the yellow and Bald-Faced hornets), of which the maculata are my favorite to work with. I got $550.00 and $720.00 per lb. respectively. I'm retired now, but my kids have taken over the contract. My son got a good sized nest of vulgaris about two weeks ago, and he took pictures during the process. If I can figure out how to post pictures on here, I'll post them on a new thread. They are rather spectacular.
I caught that report on the moths and bats! Fascinating!
The ichneumon wasp isn't the only one that follows that pattern. The common mud dauber here in Oregon (I forget the Latin name) does much the same thing with crab spiders. The main difference is that they build a tube of mud, fill it clear full of the paralyzed spiders, and lays an egg on the end one.
I'm not going to argue against your conclusions, but would suggest that we may not know all the factors here, and if that is the case, those conclusions might change. To illustrate, if indeed we had a chance to follow through on the original commandment of having all the animals in subjection, they may not have needed to eat each other in the rampant ways they do now.
However, I'm going to post an alternative hypothesis on the parasites. It's a bit out there, but I can't find any flaws in the logic, and I'd appreciate it if you would look it over. If you caught this post,
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/216795/1/Satan-The-little-piss-ant-panty-waist-god, you probably caught the questions from DTRT at the bottom. I wrote four articles in answer to him, and the part I'm talking about is in the second one. I'll post that in a couple of days.
Thanks, talesin! In all those years driving solo long-haul trucking, it was the thoughts of my little gal that kept me sane. Also, thanks for the videos! I haven't seen those before, and they certainly reinforce the question of what could have been the conditions between humans and the animals if Satan hadn't screwed thing up.
Clarity - LOL! Methinks your clarity is rather muddy. Tell you what. If you ever get near Cottage Grove, Oregon, look me up and I'll introduce you to that young lad and his mother. That way you can tell them to their face that they are phonies.
Soft+gentle - I whole-heartedly agree. Most people are too cynical to allow themselves to see the beautiful things in life and will see evil in everything whether it is there or not. They make their own beds.
Leolaia! It has been a long time! Yu betcha they take first place! I'm glad you're here. I may not always agree with your conclusions, but I do appreciate your intellect. I do a lot of exploring in the cerebral playground, and other viewpoints are valued. See my comment to Crofty above.
Devil_Fish - I make you sick?? That's wonderful! I wouldn't have it any other way! I've long made it my policy not to share good things with or try to educate a fool.
We will have been married 51 years as of next month, have 6 kids, 10 grand-kids, and 2 great-grandkids, and not a single one of them are smokers, druggies, or have a police record, and all of them are productive members of society. One granddaughter tours with the Eugene Ballet as a ballet dancer, and is paid $25.00 an hour to teach ballet, in spite of the fact she is only 17. Other members have a comparable record.
And you know how we accomplished such a record? I listened carefully to knotheads like you - and did the opposite. Hehehehe!!!
By the way, what have you accomplished?
Tom
LOL! You're right. I meant to say static electricity.
hi, peeplezs,.
down over the years i have experienced plenty of discouragement and cynicism about faith and the existence of a god who cares for us.
if i allowed myself to dwell on those things alone, i suppose that i too would be feeling hopeless and cynical and would be just waiting until my time is up.. however, i don't feel that way at all.
Hi, Peeplezs,
Down over the years I have experienced plenty of discouragement and cynicism about faith and the existence of a God who cares for us. If I allowed myself to dwell on those things alone, I suppose that I too would be feeling hopeless and cynical and would be just waiting until my time is up.
However, I don't feel that way at all. I'd like to tell you just one of the reasons why. You probably get emails like I do showing the wonders of the natural world, but I feel that I have seen such beauty in nature that I can't bring myself to doubt that there is a Creator that loves us. What most people forget is that we are part of that nature too.
To that end, I would like to recount something that I became aware of some years ago, but only lately learned the details behind. It left me with my mouth hanging open in astonishment and is in my mind, a candidate for the record book. Moreover, and even more astonishing, it happened right here in my own family.
A little background first, though. We married very young. I was 20, and she was 15. One of my primary goals when I married this little freckle-faced girl was to do all I knew how to be sure that she could find joy and happiness in her role of wife and mother. I wanted her to be glad she was a woman (especially my woman) and found fulfillment in her role in life. Needless to say, that is not something that a man can force on a woman, and for it to happen he has to control the environment in such a way that those qualities can grow on their own. I compared it to planting a garden. All one can do is plant the seeds, cultivate them, water them, make sure the ground has the nutrients needed, and the proper amount of sunlight is available. God will do the rest.
She blossomed far beyond anything that I expected, and I was enthralled with the results. Everyone that knows her loves her. We will be celebrating our 51 st wedding anniversary next month and look forward to many more.
We soon had five daughters who had the potential of becoming the same thing she was. The way that women have been reduced to second class citizens and taken advantage of down over the years has always grieved me. Therefore I tried my best to give them not only the knowledge of what they were, but a respect and appreciation for how they were created. That meant giving them a knowledge and understanding of the entire process.
They understood the monthly menses and their purpose just as soon as they were old enough to comprehend, and in fact, I still laugh about one occurrence that happened when the oldest were only two and three years old. They came in the house one hot summer afternoon in Southern California and ran up to the arm of the recliner where I was sipping a glass of ice water and reading the newspaper, while trying to cool down after a hot day's work. "Daddy, will you tell us about the birds and the bees?"
Startled, for I was wondering where they had heard the term, I picked them up, sat them in my lap, and gave them a general run-down on where they came from. They were fascinated and had many questions, but after a time they became satisfied and ran back out to play.
A week later, in exactly the same setting, they ran in again. "Daddy, will you tell us about the birds and the bees?"
I did a double take. "I did!" I exclaimed.
"No, Daddy. You told us about people. We want to know about the birds and the bees!"
I figured the best way for them to find joy and fulfillment in how they were created would be to show them the beauty and wonder there is in nature, and then help them to realize that they too were a part of that same nature. I think it worked. One big way it helped is that there are very few subjects that we can't speak about in an open and honest manner, even today.
Our fourth daughter Jeanne (Pony's wife) seemed to take this to heart as much or more as the others. She has always loved nature in all of its manifestations, so much so that her Grandfather had a fit when he caught her hand-feeding wild skunks in his basement! LOL!! She would just glow whenever I called her "My Little Wood Nymph".
Marrying an Apache Indian seemed a perfect fit, and she took to the culture like a duck to water. I went to one Powwow where Pony was teaching the newcomers about many of the Indian customs and ways of doing things. He turned to Jeanne and asked her to demonstrate how to make fire without matches. She cheerfully agreed and reached for her fire making equipment (a straight rod and the bow and string to spin it with, plus the tinder for the spark to land in) and knelt down in front of everyone so that they could see. There must have been 50 people there, all craning their necks in fascination.
What she hadn't counted on were her kids (3 at the time) who were 2, 3, and 7 years old. They knew exactly what she was going to do, and they were going to help! Their unbridled enthusiasm and the resulting chaos were simply hilarious! I think she could have done it in 30 seconds, but with all their "help" it took about 5 minutes, even with Pony grabbing the youngest at about the 4 minute mark. We all had belly aches and tears running down our cheeks from laughing so hard!
I recount this, as it will throw some light on the mindset behind this tale. I'll let their oldest son, Sol, tell it. He was 2 at the time and remembers it well. In fact, the following is the report he wrote this last school year. He is 10 now.
My "Deer" Brother
My name is Sol and I have a very special relationship with the deer. How is this so you may ask? Well it all started on June of 2002. [I was only two years old]. Me and my mom were on a hike when we noticed a strange lump on the ground, why it was a baby deer! My mom carefully picked it up. When she held it in her arms it was smaller than a loaf of bread.
After we brought it home we offered it some water, but it would not drink. Then my mom went out of the room to make some calls. When she came back we went to the store and bought a bottle and some kitten formula. My mom tried to feed it but it still would not eat. My mom then called some more people to see if they would help. After no luck we put the deer in the garden to see if it would eat the plants in it.
It still would not stand, it just curled up in the corner and stayed there for a long time. It broke are heart to see such a cute little child so weak. Me and my mom were in the garden watching it when I wanted to nurse. My mom lifted up her shirt and I clutched on to her breast. The deer suddenly sprang to life. It started to run towards us and then it started to head butt me and scratch me with its hooves.
Without thinking twice my mom lifted up the other side of her shirt and before I could start crying the deer latched on. Now, because I have nursed with the deer, I am his brother. This to me is a very special privilege and I am very proud of it.
Sol Howell-Gilbert, age 10
It was through Sol's report that I learned some of the details. What surprised me so much was that the fawn would recognize her as a source of food and would be willing to fight for it. Therefore, when the family came over a few days later, I asked Jeanne about some of the details.
For instance, did the fawn really react so quickly? Her eyes got big. "Yes!" It was so fast that I couldn't react quickly enough to stop it!" Part of that was because she was frozen in surprise for a second or two, but was immediately galvanized into action due to the need to protect Sol. Even then, she was stunned at what was happening, and could only react by instinct. "Wait!" She cried out. "I have two of them!" She quickly lifted the other side of her shirt. The fawn took it without hesitation.
"But didn't it hurt?" I asked.
A tender look crossed her face and her eyes got soft. "No. Its sucking was strong, yes, but it was about the same as a baby. It didn't even try to bite." She hesitated, then continued, "The only thing that was uncomfortable was that while it was definitely hungry and wanted food, it was still scared of me. Therefore after it latched on, it would back off as far as it could get without losing its grip. That stretched my breast out a little too much. I put my left arm around it and pulled it closer so that it wouldn't be uncomfortable."
She was silent for a few seconds, smiling at the memory, then continued. "I was sitting with my back to the fence while this was happening and I couldn't move. I remember hoping that someone would look over it and see what was going on, so that I would have a witness to the fact that this actually happened."
A lady from Wild Animal Rescue showed up a few hours later. She was really concerned because many people who find fawns try to feed them, and as many times as not they feed them something that makes them sick or worse, so she carefully questioned Jeanne about that. At first, Jeanne was a little embarrassed about telling her, but when it came out, the lady was thrilled and excited.
Who would have ever imagined that a fawn would react so instantly and emphatically to the sight of a human mother nursing her child? It simply blew my mind, but it raised a couple of huge questions too. How little we know. The scripture at Isaiah 11:6-9 is beautiful, but it's like an impossible dream that could never occur:
"And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together, and a mere little boy will be leader over them. And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra, and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand. They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea."
But, we see things like what happened above, and look at the startling harmony that can exist between species as is passed around in emails, and view videos that would be laughable if they weren't recorded for us to see, like these three:
a. Last week there was an article on a man in the far north who lives with, plays with and even wrestles wolverines. They are his pets.
b. The man in Venezuela (as I remember) who found a young injured crocodile and nursed it back to health, and it has been his pet ever since. It is now huge, yet he swims, wrestles, and rides on its back in the river where it lives. He even sticks his head in its mouth.
c. The young boy of about 10 in Burma, whose pet snake is a python about 20 ft. long. It runs loose in the house and is so huge that the boy will lie down on its back and ride around on it.
And we wonder - is that scripture really all that far-fetched?
In turn, that raises a second question. How much have the rest of the living things here on the earth suffered because Satan decided to deprive us of the knowledge of how to obey the original commandment: "Further, God blessed them and God said to them: 'Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.'" (Genesis 1:28)?
I would suspect that last sentence in Isaiah 11:9 has special meaning for them.
I have seen many things like this, so the real question is how could I NOT believe in and love a God who would create such beautiful things? I am grateful beyond words just for the privilege to live on the same planet with these exquisite creatures, and women lead that list.
Tom
i just finished reading this article... http://ca.news.yahoo.com/kids-were-no-angels-mom-whos-suing-parental-141531701.html.
the lady is 73 years old and is "estranged" from her 4 living children and 10 grandchildren.. i can see the wts glomming on to legal cases like this for its older members who have had to shun their dfd children, and then when the kids want nothing to do with the parents when they fall ill [and the wts tells them to ask those dfd adult children for financial support] they've found a way to punish the dfd kids even further by getting court orders to pay for parental support.
in fact, i've highlighted some parts of the article that have a distinct jw "aroma" to them.. .
Hey, Scully!
Yu still around?? I figgured you would marry some good-lookin' 20 year old a long time ago!
Tom
LOL, still thinking!
So thet's whot a nekkid jaybird looks like??? ROTFLOL!!
The Fence -- I'll try! (Grin)
talisin -- The reasons why such phenomena occur have always fascinated me. It occured to me that the jolt could do that, although I would think that the fir was a little better attached than that. There may be another explanation, though. The fur could loosen as time passed, and with the electricity passing through it's body, I would think that a magnetic field would be set up. Fur and magnetic fields are rather fond of one another, as anyone who has petted a cat on a day with low humidity knows, and I suspect this is at least part of the explanation.
Your avatar bugs me. You've been around for some time, as I recollect, and I think you were using that one 8 years ago when I was last posting here on the board. I hope that you will soon be in a bright place, with your head lifted and a light of eager anticipation in your eyes.
Tom
as many of us realize- times are hard for the wt society getting men to " reach out " for an elders or ministerial servants position as young men aged ( 18-35 ) are opting out of doing that due to the pressure they are under from the wt society leaders and just that it takes up too much valuable time where men could be earning a living and helping their own families instead of a thankless magazine printing corporation.
in the article " train others to reach out " in this issue it has lots of strange, controlling, yet perplexing statements which i'm sure will confuse jw men who are considering " reaching out ".
in fact, i think this article will discourage more than encourage them from doing so.. on pg.
Couldn't help chuckling about the comments concerning looking for elders who have the spiritual qualities found in Galatians 5:22, 23.
I happened to give an elder a ride home one day right after he had attended a judicial committee meeting. The problem wasn't severe, but was primarity a thing where the one before them needed some guidance and was looking for help. His distain was obvious, and he concluded: "I feel like I've been eating dirt!"
I pointed out that his position was much like a doctor being approached by a patient who was sick and needed medical attention. Then I asked, "Would you prefer going to a doctor who was primarily concerned about your health, or one whose prime concern was that they not get their fingers dirty?"
I wasn't too long after that that I was disfellowshipped.
Tom
