When I was associated with the JWs I never really felt spiritual. The things they term spiritual are tasks, behavior, acts, doctrine... I've been reading eastern philosophy like Buddhism and Taoism. In these paths spiritual is defined by the transcendent & numinous - elements that surpass our mundane physical existence - compassion, love, empathy, connection to nature and the universe. The things JWs term 'spiritual' are part of our mundane existence, like turning in a frick'n time card, and underlining a frick'n magazine.
mindseye
JoinedPosts by mindseye
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16
I'm Not Spiritual
by FrankWTower ini remember listening and thinking about other people and how spiritual they are.
some jw's eat, sleep and breathe watchtower.
and i used to think, "why can't i be like them?
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What is Your Experience with Non-Christian Religions and Philosophy ONLY?
by MrDarkKnight ini have been slow to start a thread because i wanted to see what topics were already being discussed.
having left wt i have a disdain for organized christian religion at the moment.
i am interested in your experience, research or observations about non-christian religions and philosophy only.
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mindseye
Gnosticism is pretty cool. It turns the whole Judeo-Christian myth on its head. As far as a personal philosophy, philosophical Taoism resonates with me the most. Taoism emphasizes a connection to nature, opposites (yin and yang), and being in the 'now'. It's very compatible with science, and with practical reality (no waiting around for heaven or some utopia). If you haven't read much philosophy, Nietzsche and the later existentialists are a good way to go.
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Am I wrong for being angry at my dads funeral last year?
by shakyground inthat's the question that i have been thinking about all day for some reason.
it's 5:30 am and i been in and out of sleep all night.
let me go into further detail to explain.
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mindseye
Shakyground, my mother passed away just over a year ago. It was the exact same thing, a few minutes about my mom, and then a long JW advertisement. I was also angry, but can't say that I was surprised. The non-JWs and ones who grew up "around the truth" were a bit puzzled by the whole affair, and left with a bad impression of the JWs. You have to wonder what they're thinking with this funeral outline.
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What do People Mean Exactly By "Spirit" and "Spiritual"
by cofty inmany people distance themselves from formal religion but say that they are a "spiritual" person.. .
similarly theists talk about the "spirit" as if it is something that is self-evidently true.. .
i wonder if anybody would like to have a go at defining what they mean by these words?
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mindseye
In a discussion like this, there's always a huge philosophical chasm between materialists and an idealists. Materialists value observation, things that are quantifiable, metrics, etc. Idealists often value ideas, intuition, subjective experience. How can you measure the experience of hearing Beethoven for the first time, seeing a Kandinsky painting, being moved in church? There may be certain psychological explanations, and neuroscience is shedding new light (a-hem, never used that phrase in a while) on consciousness. But overall, quantifying a subjective experience defies the scientific method.
Basically, if you want it boiled down to rational terminology, spirit is life. All living things are animated with life. Spirituality comes from consciousness - in our evolutionary history homo sapiens developed this high level of awareness of the universe and their own mortality. Humans began to express this awareness through language, art and religion/spirituality.
But I'd argue that we're not all that different from the animals, we are all connected. There are scientific arguments that most animals have some level of consciousness - but humans do have a high level of consciousness that allows them to appreciate a highly aesthetic/philosophical/spiritual experience.
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What do People Mean Exactly By "Spirit" and "Spiritual"
by cofty inmany people distance themselves from formal religion but say that they are a "spiritual" person.. .
similarly theists talk about the "spirit" as if it is something that is self-evidently true.. .
i wonder if anybody would like to have a go at defining what they mean by these words?
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mindseye
I'm not exactly a theist, but I consider myself spiritual, so I'll take a shot at it.
To me, spirituality is having a connection to something bigger than yourself, beyond your own ego. Eastern philosophy appeals to me in this regard, as it points to transcending your ego/self. IMO, spirituality is primarily an internal affair, what the Gnostics called "gnosis". Gnosis refers to enlightenment, rather than knowledge. Unlike rational knowledge, putting this state into words is difficult - as the Taoists put it, "the way" is beyond words, it is experiential. I often feel this way in nature, this "connectedness" - which causes me to relate to pantheism as well.
Spirituality ISN'T "works" and doctrine. One of the problems I always had with the witnesses is that they associated spirituality with mundane tasks like meetings, service, etc. To me, spirituality is about transcending these petty, ordinary tasks.
Spirituality isn't a laundry list.
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"this system is in such a financial crisis now! You can see the time is ripe for the end to come!"
by highdose inso said a jw to me recently.
they claimed that:.
1)never before in the history of the world has there been another financial crisis like this!.
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mindseye
Good points sir82, I think the same things when I hear JWs complain about "things getting so bad in this system...". They need to crack open a history book, and then decide if they would rather live in this present "system" with abundant religious freedom and comfort (in the western world anyway), or during the Crusades, Black Plague, Civil War, Witch Hunts, the REAL Great Depression, etc.
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mindseye
Yeah, there's no winning, that's for sure. One of my family members told me "Come to the meetings, so you can be happy." I honestly told him "I am happier than I've ever been in my life." He responded "You can be happier." Meanwhile, I see all of them looking tired and worn out from service, meetings, etc.
Really, JWs will do whatever mental gymnastics to justify their lifestyle. They misread a story like Job, which clearly wasn't meant as an excuse for self-inflicted masochism. Any criticism is looked at as "persecution." Any plea to reason or science - or other spiritual thought for that matter - is looked at as "worldly thinking".
I've learned to let it go. Really, in the end people have the right to do what they want with their lives. But yeah, it's hard to watch, especially when its ones you love.
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Am I missing something here
by therevealer inthis illustration is found on page 23 of the sept tower.
i see a guy with a wheelbarrow full of stuff who seems to be smiling, not sweating, while the others are all sweatiing and looking like they are ready to collapse.. .
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mindseye
What the---? Their imagery is getting stranger and stranger. This is almost bad as the one in the March WT of the sister testifying in court.
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Is there a correlation between personality type and leaving the WT?...
by Tuesday inon facebook tonight there was a post asking to take a personality test, in posting the personality tests a trend started emerging that certain personality types seem to leave around the same time.. i came out as an intj which is introverted intuitive thinking judging.
which a good paragraph describing it was:.
intjs apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion "does it work?
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mindseye
INFP here with a strong T. Was born in, left unbaptized in late teens (don't remember exact age, just slowly drew away). Reason: My type tends to value authenticity. Once I learned the truth about the truth, I never felt at ease with the Witnesses. Also, I could never reconcile my 'independent thinking/feeling' personality with the nature of the religion. The religion clashed with my ideals.
I find the Witnesses cater to SJ type temperament. The doctrinal, rigid nature of the religion tends to attract those who value structure above all else.
Of course there's plenty of NTs and NFs that stay in and SJs and SPs that leave. I think the motivations are different. Intuitives are theoretical thinkers, and are more likely to question doctrine. But many may suppress these thoughts due to the org's guilt tripping, and ties to family. SJs and SPs tend to feel more at home in an 'organization', but may leave due to a certain event that triggers doubt. It may be an experience with an elder, a shunning, etc.
Of course these are all generalizations from my own experience, and may vary in individual circumstances. I find my relatives who are SJ/SP function better in the org to an extent (though they don't seem truly happy), while my relatives that are N tend to fight their temperament. I think there's a great deal of cognitive dissonance among Ns who begin to analyze and dissect the doctrine.
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What if you admitted you don't mind being destroyed @ Armaggedon?
by Knowsnothing inisn't that pretty much the end of a conversation with a jw?.
honestly, now that i think about it, what is the difference between judgment day(armaggedon) and death?.
just curious to see how my friends and relatives would react if i responded that way... .
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mindseye
I've told this to my family, to their bemusement. If death is only eternal sleep, the thought never really bothered me.