Being a big R. Crumb fan, I bought this recently. Never read the whole thing yet, but looked through it a good bit. The art is excellent (goes without saying with Crumb). I find it interesting that it appears that he's done a straight up illustrated narrative of the Genesis text, with little irony or editorializing. It seems to ruffle a few fundamentalist feathers, odd considering it's a literal representation. It's telling that they have a hard time facing the reality that a 'literal' interpretation entails
mindseye
JoinedPosts by mindseye
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R. Crumb's "The Book of Genesis". Wow!
by metatron ini greatly enjoyed this book - which as the cover tells you, is not for minors!
robert crumb ( "keep on trucking", etc) illustrated it - so the women reflect his famous style of big, thick legged , strong-looking females with firm breasts and big booties.. beyond those amusements, it's really very interesting to read genesis this way.
you start to see the patriarchs as similar to arab tribes or even afghani types - severely traditional, horny and no one to mess with.
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So......Obama IS a US citizen after all?!
by Black Man inapril 27th, 201110:06 am etobama releases long-form birth certificateposted by:cnn white house producer shawna shepherd.
by cnn's alan silverleib.
washington (cnn) the white house released copies of president barack obama's original long-form birth certificate wednesday, seeking to put an end to persistent rumors that he was not born in theunited states.. "we do not have time for this kind of silliness," obama told reporters at the white house.. obama's long-form birth certificate [pdf].
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mindseye
It's absurd this ever became a major issue in the first place. I can't remember any other president that has had his US citizenship questioned in this way before. It's a no-brainer why there's a significant segment of the population who are committed to this nonsense.
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June 15th WT ( again ) WT Society Bashes College & Earning a Living
by flipper insorry for the redundancy of this being the 3rd article out of this magazine i've made a thread on- but i felt it was important to share these quotes from the aricle titled " make your way successful - how ?
" i think you'll see the extreme dissing of higher education here and guilt tactics used to discourage jw members from getting a college education or earning a decent living.. under the subheading " higher education " ?
it states, " a christian has a scriptural obligation to care for his family, and that includes providing for their material needs.
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mindseye
It's simple: dogmatic religions teach you WHAT to think. A solid college education teaches you HOW to think. This is why they discourage higher education.
From what I've heard, they mellowed out for a while on this subject. It appears they may be seeing certain patterns, like young ones leaving as soon as they learn how to use their brains. So it's time to demonize higher education once again!
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Are You Raising An Introvert?
by darth frosty inits not easy being an introvert in an extrovert worldespecially when youre a kid.
it is even more difficult if none of the adults in the kids life recognize that the child is an introvert.
this doesnt happen only when the childs parents are extroverts, but also with introverted parents who have never understood their own introverted nature.. .
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mindseye
Good article. I am not a parent of an introvert, but I am an introvert, and understand how it is to grow up in a mostly extrovert family. Much of this advice can applied by extroverted friends and spouses of introverts as well. The need for downtime is the most important thing. Extroverts seldom understand this as they get energy from being around people. They may see the introvert as aloof or snobby by wanting to be alone for extended periods of time. I enjoy being around people, but need to recharge after, especially if it is a large party. Fortunately my girlfriend is also an introvert, so there is little conflict there.
Despite introverts being misunderstood by the majority (extroverts) I would never trade my introversion for extroversion. One of the best things is working on a solitary project like a writing a paper, reading a book, or cleaning the house. I can work on it for hours without saying a word, and actually enjoy it.
It's always interesting to read lists of famous introverts like the one above. I agree with most of the choices. But Oprah Winfrey? I know introverts have the ability to be quite extroverted, but Oprah always came off as a raging extrovert to me. Maybe it's just her television persona.
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Changes are coming
by startingover ini see it happening.
any comments on our future here in the us?http://www.evolver.net/user/soultraveller/blog/america_changes_are_cominga_lot_them_are_herechanges are coming ----.
that will blow your mind..... #1 the united states has lost approximately 42,400 factories since.
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mindseye
Wow, the top article seems like it was written by an..uh...Jehovah Witness. The sky is falling, LOL. Yeah, but seriously, changes are happening. Many seem (and are) bad. But technology changes. Economies change. For US to survive it needs to embrace technology. Post WW2 industry is dead. Kaput. It isn't coming back. The answer? Education. Embrace of technological innovation. Think Silicon Valley, not rust belt.
And as far as losing physical objects - CDs, books, big screen TVs, big gas guzzlers - is this really a bad thing? My parents generation, the baby boomers, usually had suburban houses full of crap they didn't even use. I have my macbook, and a shelf of books in a small apartment. And you know what? I'm happy. Who needs all this stuff anyway?
Humanity's hitting a rough patch, but is it really worse than anytime in history? In my great grandparents' time half the kids in their family died of tuberculosis or some other disease. And imagine walking into a bar in the Wild West, chances are you wouldn't walk out alive. Ever read the Iliad? Or the Bible?
I'll take high gas prices any day.
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mindseye
College seems a mixed bag when it comes to de-conversion. With ones that I grew up with (went to college in early 00s), college was the final step in leaving the religion. We were a group taking classes in the arts & humanities, being exposed to all kinds of 'worldly' thinkers like Nietzsche. One fading JW I knew wrote a scathing DA letter to the governing body. Being unbaptized, I just made the final choice to leave the religion for good. We were all fading before college, it's just the ideas and intellectual framework of college gave us the 'freedom' to make that final step. Good times!
Now there's younger JWs in Generation Y going to college. It's generally more accepted, because of the practicality of needing a degree for most jobs. It could just be the group that I know, but I find a lot of these kids end up staying in the religion. I know some studying to be doctors, and I can't imagine learning Biology in depth and still believing the nonsense the org teaches about evolution. There must be a lot of compartmentalizing going on.
In the end I think leaving the religion comes down to temperament more than anything. Those with an independent streak, with intellectual inclinations, tend to use college as a springboard to leave the JWs. Others with more conformist, conservative personalities stay. To them college is little more than vocational training.
But if anything is a headache for the governing body right now, it's the internet (and by default, 'apostates'). Thanks to the internet, they cannot manage the flow of information anymore. And this information is available to anyone who googles 'Jehovah Witnesses'.
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Alert: Witch hunt begins Watchtower 15 july 2011
by Gorbatchov inreading the posts about the 2011-7-15 watchtower about mentally retarded apostates i foresee the following scenario:.
1. congregational elders trying to get grip on non regular publishers and inactive witnesses.. 2. the good ones read in the watchtower that apostates are to find in the local congregation.
3. inactives like me (i hate this name, but i use their language), and liberal witness like me, will be hunted, .
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mindseye
I think nugget is right on. Initially I was disturbed by the July 15th WT, which conjured up images of witch trials. But from my experience the rank & file don't even notice this stuff on a surface level. When I bring up the loonier stuff to my dad, like the 'overlapping generation' nonsense, he acts as if it's a non-issue. Likewise this watchtower will be glossed over. The worst effect will be on the true believers, the cognitive dissonance will continue to set in. If anything I think you will see an even more socially isolated and detached subculture.
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Its official, call me Mr Apostate from now on
by Joey Jo-Jo ini overheard a conversation from my family, jw's are shunning me, but the best part is i am not a jw, never been bathtised, just a born in who woke up in his early thirties.
the reasoning behind it was something i did, it wasn't fornication because im still a virgen, it wasn't stealing, killing or praying to false gods, drinking or anything that the bible defines as sin, im not even the going out type, i dont have many friends, never been reprove or did anything to set a bad example (i was your typical jw) no no no, it was a book, it was sending an email to a family member who happens to be jw with the shephearding the flock ppf.. this book was a huge shock to the person, eventually it raised questions and spread around, eventually this went full circle back at me, my parents already concerned for some time has asked brothers to see if they can fix my reasoning so i can be brainwashed again and give them money to some rich guys in brooklyn who dont have any ethical responsibilities towards others.
i wanted my parents to do this, i want them to see what the brothers will do and say about me, thinking and hopping, that some day they will wake up from their long sleep.
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mindseye
Joey: You say you aren't baptized? I'm not either, my situation differs in that I left in my late teens. I find that since I didn't get dunked most witnesses don't mind talking to me. Of course your situation is also a bit different in that you were attending and got caught reading 'apostate' material'. When I left only my parents knew that I read 'Apocalypse Delayed', but just turned the other way (I think they did not even want to acknowledge it).
My advice is to keep going your own way, the further you get away from the religion the easier it gets. Others are saying for you to lose your V card, LOL, I'd say that's a personal choice. The key is that it's YOUR choice to make, as it become YOUR LIFE.
The biggest help for me was reading philosophy and going to college. It opens up a whole new world for a person. When challenged to leave I've heard witnesses say "Where else will we go?", which makes me laugh because the options are endless.
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YHWH a minor pagan god: Ugaritic Texts and the Sons of El
by DoomVoyager ininteresting.. here is the first thing i've found on the subject, though i haven't read much of it yet.. http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebrandt/otesources/05-deuteronomy/text/articles/heiser-deut32-bs.htm.
pseudo.
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mindseye
Thanks for resurrecting this excellent thread. Bookmarked it, this stuff is fascinating.
ProdigalSon, I think you're right, though I just began to learn about Gnosticism. It would have been interesting to see what trajectory Christianity would have taken if the Gnostics weren't suppressed.
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June 15 W/T - "Should Youths Get Baptised?"
by sizemik inthe above mentioned article caught my eye for a couple of reasons .
.. it is obvious to most observers that the children of active jw's provide a potential "large army" and in spite of the attrition rate of jw youths (around 2/3's i believe), it's a resource the borg are keen to maximise.
there tactics appear to be encouraging baptism at an ever younger age.
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mindseye
Too many are making it into their late teens without getting baptized, then walking away without the full shunning consequence.
That would be me. I was about to get baptized around 15 (all the other kids in my family were doing it!). I had second thoughts and a recommendation from my dad to wait until I was more mature (he had some sense, despite being a true believer).
Not getting baptized was the best decision I've ever made. Several of those kids I wanted to join in baptism grew up and left the religion, and faced the inevitable. Though I've had some awkward situations and psychological dilemmas, I would never say I've gone through the harsh stuff baptized ones have gone through! My heart goes out to you.
If there are any young'uns lurking out there who aren't baptized yet, my advice is DON'T. Your perspective will undergo a dramatic shift in your late teens and early twenties.
As for the WT in question, downright criminal and absurd, as usual.