sizemik

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Posts by sizemik

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  120

  I am starting to understand that creationists dont understand Evolution

  by cyberjesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  and thats it :-) self explanatory.

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  sizemik

  
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  120

  I am starting to understand that creationists dont understand Evolution

  by cyberjesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  and thats it :-) self explanatory.

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  sizemik

  I should change my title to... they are not even interested in understanding it.

  CJ . . . maybe the title should have read: I am starting to understand that creationists wont understand Evolution.

  The preconcieved bias is just too strong . . . to the point of self-inflicted intellectual blindness.

  Personally, I have no conflict between evolution and the existence of God . . . with an allowance made for the "unknown" on both sides of the fence no conflict exists. What I have concluded is that the book of Genesis is not literal in either it's chronology or it's science . . . but is still allegorical rather than misleading or a lie . . . a critical difference.

  We believe what we will . . . it's best, however, to make it in harmony with the known facts as much as possible . . . makes it easier to defend and thereby justify to ourselves also.

  Luvonyall - MS
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  43

  So here I am!

  by jwmanager in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello to everyone!

  i guess the easiest way to introduce myself is by letting you know i'm headisspinning's husband.

  it might take a little bit for me to open up, but i enjoy reading the posts and responses on here.

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  sizemik

  Welcome to the site jwmanager . . . I have read your wife's posts with interest and look forward to having you both here.

  Luvonyall - MS
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  31

  June 15 W/T - "Should Youths Get Baptised?"

  by sizemik in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the above mentioned article caught my eye for a couple of reasons .

  .. it is obvious to most observers that the children of active jw's provide a potential "large army" and in spite of the attrition rate of jw youths (around 2/3's i believe), it's a resource the borg are keen to maximise.

  there tactics appear to be encouraging baptism at an ever younger age.

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  sizemik

  The above mentioned article caught my eye for a couple of reasons . . .

  It is obvious to most observers that the children of active JW's provide a potential "large army" and in spite of the attrition rate of JW youths (around 2/3's I believe), it's a resource the bOrg are keen to maximise. There tactics appear to be encouraging baptism at an ever younger age. I encourage you to have a read of the entire article.http://www.jw.org/index.html?option=QrYQCsVrGZNT I have highlighted here a couple of paragraphs words/phrases for comment . . .

  Is it reasonable to believe that a young person who puts off baptism will not be accountable to God for his conduct? Solomon directed the following words to young ones: “Know that on account of [your actions] the true God will bring you into judgment.” (Eccl. 11:9)

  And with no exception as to age, Paul gave this reminder: “Each of us will render an account for himself toGod.” —Rom. 14:12. Both baptized and unbaptized worshippers are accountable to God. Do not forget, Jehovah protects his servants by ‘not letting them be tempted beyond what they can bear.’ (1 Cor. 10:13) As long as they ‘keep their senses’ and fight temptation, such ones can count on God’s support. (1 Pet. 5:6-9) A Christian mother writes: “Children who are baptized have more reasons to stay away from the bad things of the world. My son, baptized at 15, feels that baptism is a protection. ‘You don’t think about doing something contrary to Jehovah’s law,’ he said. Baptism is a strong motivation for righteousness.”

  The highlighted words show how the biblical counsel cited directed at YOUNG ADULTS is cleverly presented to include CHILDREN. I took the time to read the scriptures cited and developed the feeling from the context that this advice (Solomon and Paul's) is directed to ADULTS (albeit young) as they both speak of concepts fully understandable only to the ADULT mind.

  As if to almost acknowledge this, the tone of the article in the W/T is directed mainly to ADULTS . . . yes the parents! . . . not to the "young ones" themselves.

  The other point which came to mind is this one . . . If "children" are in fact "accountable to God", does this legitimise in the average JW mind, the future slaughter (at Armageddon) of over a billion "children"?

  I'd be intersted in hearing others comments . . . feel free to disagree

  Luvonyall - MS
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  16

  Weekly Watchtower Study, March 28 - April 3, "Empowered to Overcome Any Trial"

  by possible-san in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  well, in my japanese forum, i often introduce weekly study articles to everybody, and everybody comments freely.. also in this forum, i'd like to do the same thing every week.. (if you wish, i would also post the schedule of other meetings every week.).

  in my case, i do unsparing criticism mostly.. .

  march 28 - april 3. the watchtower, january 15, 2011, study article 5.

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  sizemik

  Yes Possible . . . I do get angry.

  The mind-controlling feature of their WT dribble is so apparent! . . . basically, "the whole world is evil and only we, "true christians", are righteous.

  Paragraph 9 which infers "most people" are too apathetic to even "make a stand for what is right" is simply insulting, not to mention plain WRONG. It is they who have lost the ability to "make a stand for what is right"

  Thanks for your posts wannabefree . . . I enjoyed your observations.

  Luvonyall - MS
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  12

  About Cults - defining based on an individual leader - a better description

  by Mad Sweeney in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  most definitions of cults one finds will state something like "most cults are characterized by group devotion to a single charismatic leader.".

  of course, the jws take that to mean the borg is not a cult because they are run by the governing body who sit in as proxies for the faithful and discreet slave, who are sitting in for jesus christ, who has been appointed to rule by god.

  they ignore the word "most" to reduce their cognitive dissonance and then skip merrily away in smug self-righteousness.. the problem is in the definition of cults.

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  sizemik

  Some very good points have been made here . . . but things still aren't sitting well with me.

  Firstly, in all the definitions of what constitutes a cult that I've looked at, it is only the single charismatic leader part of the definition that consistently "exempts" certain groups (eg JW's) . . . yet the definition, with this feature aside, clearly shows they are in fact a Cult (I think this is what Mad was getting at).

  It has to be acknowledged that the general perception of a cult is weighted to the more extreme examples (Jones/Koresh) where a single charismatic leader is the focus of attention. And this gives rise to the preconception, whereby less high profile groups can effectively use their "wriggle room".

  Personally, I feel the definition is quite clear and distinct in itself as to what defines a cult in spite of the preconceptions.

  What gives me a sense of disquiet, is that by referring to a cult that lacks a single charismatic leader by another term such as "high control group" . . . as if they're something other than a cult . . . then we effectively let them off the hook by default. They no longer need their "wriggle room" to escape the definition . . . we've allowed them to escape . . . effectively agreeing "you are not a cult".

  I know a committed JW will always reject the definition using some kind of specious reasoning . . . even if the definition fits perfectly. But it is those who are unaware of the tactics used and true nature of these other groups that need this awareness more than the winning of an argument with a JW.

  I can only conclude that the definition of a cult SHOULD accommodate the multiple leaders feature more readily than it does, if only for the sake of accuracy. A more accurate definition in this way, would serve better the interests of the vulnerable and unwary.

  Luvonyall - MS
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  12

  About Cults - defining based on an individual leader - a better description

  by Mad Sweeney in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  most definitions of cults one finds will state something like "most cults are characterized by group devotion to a single charismatic leader.".

  of course, the jws take that to mean the borg is not a cult because they are run by the governing body who sit in as proxies for the faithful and discreet slave, who are sitting in for jesus christ, who has been appointed to rule by god.

  they ignore the word "most" to reduce their cognitive dissonance and then skip merrily away in smug self-righteousness.. the problem is in the definition of cults.

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  sizemik

  MAD . . . I agree with your analysis. The problem I guess is if you change the definition to accommodate the existence of a ruling body as well, does it alter the definition too much? . . . ie; does it bring some groups into the definition unfairly . . .

  I lifted a definition from the Discovery Channel website and posted it under "CULT definition - Discovery Channel" a couple of day's ago.

  What's below is the same summary only this time edited to allow for multiple individuals in the leadership . . . The definition is slightly abridged (examples removed) and altered ONLY to accommodate the existence of a ruling body . . . edits are bracketed. As you can see, not much editing was required

  Just thought it might add to the discussion . . . everyone can draw their own conclusions.

  What characterizes a destructive cult?

  A destructive cult, or a doomsday cult, has all the elements of a general cult but to a greater degree. It's headed by a charismatic single leader (or ruling body), who demands complete loyalty. It uses deceptive recruiting tactics and is isolationist, with strict supervision over the daily lives of its members. The members speak an inside language that only they know, and draw sharp distinctions between good (us) and evil (them).

  What is meant by the phrase "cult of personality"?

  The term cult of personality refers to a certain dynamic whereby the cult members worship their leader (or ruling body), totally, unquestionably, not just because of his/their ideas or philosophy. Accordingly, the leader (or ruling body), has total control over his devotees. Cult members in this scenario believe that only their leader (or ruling body), can save them from the gates of hell and lead them to salvation.

  Why is money an important factor in cults?

  The nature of cults is such that individuals lose their sense of self and relinquish their independence. And the cult needs money for accommodation, food, clothing and sometimes the leader (or ruling body's) pocket. While some cults access cash through legitimate means, others will use illegal means to do so. This may entail fraud or tax evasion, but it often entails deceptive fundraising techniques or demands upon new members to make significant financial contributions.

  Are all cults religious by nature?

  Most but not all cults - - especially destructive cults - - are religious in nature. Some cults have financial or political roots. They are all similar in controlling individuals to the extent that the leader (or ruling body) achieves it’s religious or political ends, or lines their own pocket. All of these cults play on the vulnerabilities of the recruits and seek to draw in converts. These converts end up prepared to give up their lives or kill others in order to obey their leader(s) and serve their will. Some cults run seminars and retreats, enticing people with the promise of psychological and spiritual healing. Many of them also drain people's pockets in the process.

  Is it easy to leave a cult?

  In most cases, it's far easier to get into a cult than out. A few cults will allow members to leave of their own volition, though they will apply pressure to stay. In the majority of cases, a member is either too brainwashed to leave or is threatened if he does so.

  How is cult recruitment executed?

  Recruitment to a cult usually takes place at college campuses, spiritual retreats, unemployment offices, support groups or religious gatherings. Recruitment techniques typically involve deception and manipulation. Recruiters often play to the stress and vulnerability of the candidates, masking the true nature of the group's intentions or promising spiritual rewards. Often, the recruits know the recruiters personally. Once the recruit has bitten the bait, the cult will use isolationist tactics to keep him from sharing his doubts, if any, with others.

  How is thought reform used by cults?

  Thought reform has many names: mind control, brainwashing, indoctrination, coercive persuasion. These terms all refer to the systematic breakdown of an individual's sense of self. Thought reform is the primary technique of cult dynamics, to the extent that a cult member will do what he might otherwise not do. This is accomplished through induced dependency, dread of disobeying the god-like leader(s) and isolation from mainstream culture. The indoctrinated cult member will embrace the group and its leader(s) by subjugating his own thinking and allow himself to remain under the total control of the cult.

  What personality traits is a cult recruit likely to have?

  Research has shown that people who are recruited into a cult are likely to have a higher-than-normal incidence of psychiatric disorder and are probably undergoing some form of stress at the time of recruitment. Psychologist Michael Langone identified additional traits of likely recruits: dependency stemming from low self-confidence; gullibility; unassertiveness, with a reluctance to question authority; disillusionment with the status quo; low tolerance for uncertainty; blind belief or naïve idealism; and a desire for spiritual meaning.

  What's the difference between a cult and a religion?

  The American Heritage Dictionary has defined a cult as "a religion or religious sect generally considered extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader or leaders." A cult and a religion are comparable in terms of spirituality, faith and ritual. Where a cult differs is in its deviation from the mainstream, its typical requirement of a commitment to the group and its worshipful behavior by the devotees toward a single, charismatic leader (or authority). A religion, by contrast, is often considered mainstream, will have different levels of commitment on the part of its adherents and will have a hierarchy of leadership.

  Do deprogramming and exit counseling work for former cultists?

  Deprogramming takes place after the forcible removal of a member of a cult. Tremendous investments of time and money must be made to deprogram him so that he can readjust to society. The ex-cult member is led through a debriefing regimen aimed to get him to think for himself. Deprogramming techniques were more common in the 1970s but the necessary kidnapping, expense for a security detail, and controversial lawsuits led to a rethinking of this technique. Nowadays, exit counseling is the preferred form of action and aims at attracting the cult member to voluntarily undergo debriefing. Family members are involved and psychological means are applied to encourage the cult member to seek an out. In any case, an ex-cult member will often experience psychological scarring for many years after escape.

  Luvonyall - MS
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  42

  They found crosses!

  by bottleofwater in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12888421.

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  sizemik

  Incidentally, I never understood why the WTS made such a big deal of whether Jesus was killed on a Cross or a "Torture Stake"

  I suspect it was simply to distance themselves from BTG . . . so they could stand aside and berate them for their "idolatry"

  Like the "New World Translation" . . . these guy's at WT haven't allowed for the fact that the "information age" is now subjecting them to intense scrutiny . . . instead lodging specious claims they didn't have the foresight to realise would someday be subject to "new light"

  Perhaps it was the same bunch responsible for both . . .

  

  Luvonyall - MS
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  106

  I'm Starting To Understand Atheist and Evolution

  by Philadelphia Ponos in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for many years i was sincerely perplexed when someone told me they believed in the evolution theory or were an atheist.

  i never understood how someone could ignore all the evidence for intelligent design and overlook all the holes in the evolution theory.

  for example, the human biology clock is synced with the rotation of the earth, the earth is the perfect distance away from the sun to sustain life, the earth has an ozone layer to protect us from the sun's radiation, the earth naturally produces fruits and vegetables to be used for food, our bodies produce enzymes to break down the fruits and vegetables so it can nourish us, the earth produces water and oxygen, etc.

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  sizemik

  PP . . . you've had a lot of good advice here . . . even some good examples to point you in the right direction . . . and yet by choice your still sitting in the "dunces" chair.

  Why don't you be honest . . . you want people here to "justify" what they believe or do you want to learn something?

  I suspect the former . . . what you don't seem to realise is . . . we don't have to . . . you want to remain ignorant that's your problem.

  Luvonya - MS
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  13

  Anonymity and Mind Control

  by Ding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ted dencher wrote a book in 1966 entitled, "why i left jehovah's witnesses.".

  one of his chapters is entitled: "effect of anonymity on the mind.".

  he points out that the wts goes out of its way to take away jws' individual identities:.

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  sizemik

  The damage of conformity and anonymity occurred to me not too long ago. It was my own mental health that finally forced me to reconsider further association.

  Ditto for me Lunatic faith . . . I read an article some time ago that the "damage" to mental health is mostly inflicted during the indoctrination process . . . it can take some years (and further damage) before it begins to create problems. But it is the "stripping away" of individuality that causes the greatest harm.

  Luvonyall - MS