Posts by LucidSky

47

Complete reversal: from Witness to atheist

by Ephanyminitas in

i'm pretty new here (five minutes old!

) and i'm curious: how many have left the organization and, in time, become athiests.

i was raised in the organization, so growing up, my thinking was -- of course -- stifled.

LucidSky

I will give you the fact that it takes a pretty long shot for all of this stuff to just come about on its own and without the help of any god creature. Its actually this belief that made me throw out the idea of god. If its so hard to imagine that all of this stuff happened on its own its even harder to imagine that god somehow came into existence and was so powerful that he could create the universe and its complexity.

Rhett - Makes some sense. I think this goes into the Christian idea of first causes. They state that everything had a cause but God. I remember reading an argument one time that proceeded from the following:

Does the universe exist?
If so, did it have a beginning?
If so, was the beginning caused or uncaused?
If so, was the cause personal or impersonal?

27

Relating to Non-JW's

by LucidSky in

i read the "ex-witness singles" thread and it seems like a good idea.

the thought has crossed my mind many times before since non-jw's often don't seem to care or understand.

i would love being able to relate on something that has played such an important part of your lives (uh, understated - something your world is supposed to revolve around.

LucidSky

Alana I know exactly what you mean about holidays and birthdays. I remember a guy telling a story of these parents he saw in Toys-R-Us, buying up tons of presents. He asked what they were doing buying so much and they replied that they had forgotten their son's birthday and were going to make it up to him! Everyone was like, "Oh, that's so sad," and meanwhile I'm about ready to gag - my parents never had one for me.

Carmel Yep. (I'm an ex, BTW.)

10

How embarrassing!

by RR in

jw
friends

ok, so today.

i'm going over a discussion in my head i had with a jw online, at the same time, i'm on line waitring to have my order taken at the mcdonald's, "can i take your order?

" she says, and i say, "can i have a watchtower meal.

LucidSky

RR C'mon guys, you know you all miss those Watchtower hoagies!

Have to admit I liked those danishes they served at the conventions more than anything.

27

Relating to Non-JW's

by LucidSky in

i read the "ex-witness singles" thread and it seems like a good idea.

the thought has crossed my mind many times before since non-jw's often don't seem to care or understand.

i would love being able to relate on something that has played such an important part of your lives (uh, understated - something your world is supposed to revolve around.

LucidSky

I read the "Ex-Witness singles" thread and it seems like a good idea. The thought has crossed my mind many times before since non-JW's often don't seem to care or understand. I would love being able to relate on something that has played such an important part of your lives (uh, understated - something your world is supposed to revolve around.) I still have yet to decide if that instant emotional bond is a good or bad thing though.

My last relationship with a non-JW was not perfect, but it was wonderful nonetheless. However, even though we had a solid emotional connection, I always felt a gap between us that never seemed to close. My biggest turn-off? I really wanted her to try and understand who I am and why, but she showed only marginal interest in discussing religion (she was highly intolerant toward religion in general) and had almost zero interest in things JW-related. She never once took the initiative to learn more about me there, even after blatant prodding attempts on my part. It made me often recall this high school teenager that had a crush on me and then discovered I was a JW. She impressed and flattered me immensely when I learned she was going to the library and looking up information on the Witnesses.

It should go without saying: At least try to take sincere interest in those things that are most important to your significant other!

13

Restrictive vs Permissive

by LucidSky in

jw
friends

hardcore dubs can be quite restrictive on their kids.

they are simply following organization rules but try to impose them on their children: no school sports or activities for you and absolutely no parties with those evil, worldly corruptibles in your class.

oh, and you must never, ever be alone with someone of the opposite sex because the instant you are, you'll just be ripping each other's clothes off... i'm not sure if it was because they were in the spotlight more, but it seemed to me that the kids with the hardcore parents were the ones getting baptized early and then getting disfellowshiped or reproved a couple years later.. jw parents have huge issues of mistrust and they close the channel of communication because their children fear reproof.

LucidSky

Hardcore Dubs can be quite restrictive on their kids. They are simply following organization rules but try to impose them on their children: No school sports or activities for you and absolutely no parties with those evil, worldly corruptibles in your class. Oh, and you must never, ever be alone with someone of the opposite sex because the instant you are, you'll just be ripping each other's clothes off... I'm not sure if it was because they were in the spotlight more, but it seemed to me that the kids with the hardcore parents were the ones getting baptized early and then getting disfellowshiped or reproved a couple years later.

JW parents have huge issues of mistrust and they close the channel of communication because their children fear reproof. Why would you ever want to talk to your parents? They aren’t going to try to care and understand or even help you. They are simply upset with you and want to spit out council from the Society and take steps to make sure it never happens again. So the children often lead double lives and try to hide everything and then feel guilt-ridden and depressed about it.

Any personal observations or insights?

47

Complete reversal: from Witness to atheist

by Ephanyminitas in

i'm pretty new here (five minutes old!

) and i'm curious: how many have left the organization and, in time, become athiests.

i was raised in the organization, so growing up, my thinking was -- of course -- stifled.

LucidSky

I am borderline Christian at the moment, but am leaning more and more toward agnosticism. I simply can't explain how a perfectly just, wise, and loving God has created a world that for billions of years has fed on conscious suffering and death (right next to life and pleasure, of course). I also feel that evolution does indeed account for simple form changes, but it lacks a certain explanatory power when it comes to powerful innovation and complexity. It all seems too convenient that the universe succeeded in bringing us into existence. I have recently thought more about pantheism ( http://www.pantheism.net) as a solution to both dilemmas.

17

Bible Students

by LucidSky in

jw
friends

i explored a few options as i was coming out of the organization.

nominal christianity had no appeal except that it was without the policing and punishment of the jw's.

there was no open discussion still and i didn't agree with most of it.

LucidSky

RR - Are you Rolando? I've had discussions with you in the past on other forums or newsgroups, like Watchtower Review, I believe. Always a good read even when I didn't agree!

butal - Too late... I've already read enough of your posts to know you are a flirt!

hoo - Like Scorp said, I would talk to RR. Try the Bible Student's homepage at www.biblestudents.net

17

Bible Students

by LucidSky in

jw
friends

i explored a few options as i was coming out of the organization.

nominal christianity had no appeal except that it was without the policing and punishment of the jw's.

there was no open discussion still and i didn't agree with most of it.

LucidSky

Hey Spaz. What area was she from?

I feel you should marry someone who is approximately close to your own religious beliefs and level of enthusiam. Not because "that's how it should be" but because it will cause fewer problems down the road. Not sure what their marriage views are. I'm guessing they wouldn't disfellowship and shun you though.

17

Bible Students

by LucidSky in

jw
friends

i explored a few options as i was coming out of the organization.

nominal christianity had no appeal except that it was without the policing and punishment of the jw's.

there was no open discussion still and i didn't agree with most of it.

LucidSky

I explored a few options as I was coming out of the organization. Nominal Christianity had no appeal except that it was without the policing and punishment of the JW's. There was no open discussion still and I didn't agree with most of it. But I did discover the Bible Students and started attending some of their meetings. Yep, those same guys who began with the Russell are still around; they never joined the formal JW organization. In fact they don't even like it when they are associated with the JW's ( http://www.food4jws.org/faq/bsjw.htm).

So what was it like? I can only vouch for the one congregation that I was with. They are different in more than just doctrine, however. Obviously they haven't had the phenomenal success that the Dubs have enjoyed because there is no mandatory preaching requirement. Each church is independent of the other congregations, but they still have conventions. They don't have Kingdom Halls and meet in homes. Women read and pray. They still sing, but could use some lessons. They sometimes brought snacks (it reminded me of Book Study snack nights) and they often went out for lunch on Sundays. Most of them were up in years as well. But in all I found them to be a sincerely loving, more open-minded and intelligent group of people.

I also found that many of them still accept a lot of Russell's quirky spin on things, although their were disagreements. Here's the kicker: they actually read entire books of the Bible at meetings and discuss them openly! My God! An exchange of ideas?? The thought seemed so repulsive to me! There were differing viewpoints on several occasions. They studied other books and gave sermons too. In all honesty, if I had to attend church with anyone I would pick them.

Has anyone else had an experience with them?

56

Do you Remember the Moment you Stopped Being a JW?

by Smoldering Wick in

jw
friends

"it only takes a moment.

a moment of sanity.

clarity.

LucidSky

Although I've lurked here for the past few weeks this will be my first post at JW.com! There are so many sad stories of liberation to hear. My own lacks the great drama of some but that probably means I have been spared much grief. There was no clear life-altering event that resulted in a complete turn-around in my life, but there were a few significant occasions.

The first was the destruction of the "exclusive truth" doctrine. During my participation on internet discussion forums in the late 90's, I met an unusual individual. He opposed the organization but still believed many JW doctrines (I could never buy into the reasoning of nominal Christianity.) After reading his article regarding eternal death in Armageddon (at http://reslight.addr.com/l-jws.html), for first time realized that the Witnesses could not have exclusive truth rights because they were wrong, and he was right. But I didn't abandon them yet.

The next big change came when I invited my parents to my place for dinner and they saw some books in full view. The books were older publications written by a companion of Russell after Rutherford seized control of the Watchtower. They wrote me a letter inquiring about them and I replied and told them what I found. By then I had done a lot more research: "other sheep" were gentile Christians, Jesus was at God's "right hand" immediately after he ascended, disfellowshiping procedures should include "going before the church", birthdays are okay if anniversaries are okay, etc, etc.

We communicated back and forth, usually via letters since that let each of us formulate our words and arguments carefully. But convincing them was of no avail. Each time they were cornered they simply stopped responding to the point I was making or shifted to the next one. Eventually even that stopped. My guess is that they felt guilt or pressure from spiritual discussions that were not "upbuilding" to their faith. Thankfully because I never baptized and thus was never disfellowshiped, I still have a good relationship with them.

Over the next couple of years my beliefs teetered toward mild agnosticism. My last girlfriend acted as a catalyst for this but she failed to try to understand me. I was left thinking how a wise, just and loving God could make a world that for billions of years has fed on death and conscious suffering (along with life and pleasure). It was comforting being in the organization and having all the answers. Now I am left with none. It is my price for freedom.