Posts by lurk

15

why? water baptism

by lurk in

been thinking about baptisum (and decided to look it up .

does anyone know why we carry on having water baptism?

im wondering because after reading up on baptisum johns water baptisum does seem to have been replaced by the holy spirit and fire baptism that john said would come.

lurk

jgnat yep ..forgot about the ethiopian.and found a few other mentions of water.

though i disagree that there was a set pattern clear in the bible.as you said " The bible pattern is quite clear; repentance, baptism in water, then baptism with the Holy Spirit" .i found passages where ppl recieved holy spirit before baptism. with paul for instance that repentance came after he recieved holy spirit. .and again with cornelius spirit first then although baptisum isnt done it is indicated as being on the cards.

paul and corneiulus were it seems special bt it doesnt mean they are the only ones ever, if we insist on some biblical pattern then it would be possible to deny some person who also recives holy spirit first before baptisum and attempt to correct them in ignorance. the old testement has plenty of people who received holy spirit before john and him being full of holy spirit from birth.

holy spirit isnt automatic it seems from what ive read some ppl didnt get i till they were prayed for.other till hands were layed on..and others still recieved it before baptisum from god himself or by disciples.

also you said"I don't think there is a single bible example of water being replaced by fire."

i found 2 instances where belivers who had previoulsy had the baptism of john then had to be baptised again because the baptism was not " in the lord" then recieved holy spirit when hands were layed on them.acts 8:14-16 and 19:4 .if johns hasnt been replaced or discontinued then weshould have 2 baptisms and then holy spirit.

lasty no matter how many ppl ive met who have been baptised there is no sign of holy spirit.

infact holy spirit seems to be something no one experiences any more.

in the bible the holy spirit is obvious but today theres nothing ... in the org holyspirit is suppose to choose the elected elder......yet im told they say a prayer before voting then vote..shorley all the votes would be for the same person...but thats not the case im told..so the holy spirit must have a split personality .

no similarity between holy spirit today and the biblical holy spirit..so there doesnt seem to be much of a pattern.

ppl get baptised and thats it.........unless you counted ppl falling on the floor and jabbering in supposed tounges that no one ever understands.

peacfull pete interesting thanks. ive read about the temple in the kurdish mountains that is the Zoroastrianism temple of old...very sacred place supposedly has a large pool of water thats some sacred thing.

water being a thing we all washing with im not surprised its used ritually for other religions .but you notice in judaisum that washing and cleansing is assosiated with judaic worship before john the baptists time.its not a huge leap.

15

why? water baptism

by lurk in

been thinking about baptisum (and decided to look it up .

does anyone know why we carry on having water baptism?

im wondering because after reading up on baptisum johns water baptisum does seem to have been replaced by the holy spirit and fire baptism that john said would come.

lurk

been thinking about baptisum (and decided to look it up

does anyone know why we carry on having water baptism? im wondering because after reading up on baptisum johns water baptisum does seem to have been replaced by the holy spirit and fire baptism that john said would come.

so wheres all the flames on ppls heads??

this quote seems to me to be a bit odd

*** it-1 250 Baptism ***
John's baptism was due to be replaced by the baptism commanded by
Jesus: "Make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit."
(Mt 28:19) This was the only water baptism having God's approval
from Pentecost, 33 C.E.,

First it says the water baptism of john was replaced by the baptisum of holy spirt on ..which we know came with fire not water...then it says this is the only water baptisum acceptable.

that doesnt make sense does it..fire and water are opposites...and there is no mention of water in the holy spitirt baptisums ive looked up so far.

So why are christians still using water??

24

"Library Card" Defense refuted

by hooberus in

watchtower 1976 10/15 632-6. .

the "mark" of the beast would identify the one having it as belonging to that "wild beast," giving it full support.

ellicott's bible commentary notes that the mark 'surely means the acquiescence to the principals of this tyrannical world-power.'.

lurk

hawkaw

typical ..and the secrecy is in our best interest ive no doubt ....hahahahaha

what was the general attitude of tthe JW that called you?

24

"Library Card" Defense refuted

by hooberus in

watchtower 1976 10/15 632-6. .

the "mark" of the beast would identify the one having it as belonging to that "wild beast," giving it full support.

ellicott's bible commentary notes that the mark 'surely means the acquiescence to the principals of this tyrannical world-power.'.

lurk

hi ive been following this un thing on the forum. ive got some questions ...hope you havent heard these to much before.

1) it would be great to get a copy of the 1991 application forms. has this every been achieved??

the WTS must have a copy surely this sort of stuff means each party has a copy of application nd exceptance.

.so this would mean that other NGO's would have copys of there application or acceptance.

I wonder what other NGO's like say the catholic church would allow there copies to be seen ?? after all it cant be a problem for them can it im sure theyd be more than happy to oblidge.

2) the "PREVENTION OF DISCRIMINATION AGAINST AND THE PROTECTION OF MINORITIES" posted on another thread.where did that come from??? if theres stuff like this out there there to view id like to know ..has anyone seen documents discussing say the goals of NGO members? they must have got to gether at some point to discuss goals .

maybe other NGO's would have this stuff.

3) how realistic is the idea of approaching other friendly NGO'S ?

lurk

thanks for the massive work put into all this

11

Does god need

by trinity4life in

what did god love before he created?

does god need man to love?

god is love.

lurk

ask them

http://www.watchtower.org/

or were you wanting to teach ppl here ?

90

Spells, Wiccans, and Witchcraft

by SpunkyChick in

i just returned home from a nightmarish trip to chicago.

i came in peace, and was shit on by my aunts and a cousin.

what they did was unforgivable.

lurk

i think we live to delude our selves ,life seems to be creating a bubble in which you can survive the realities of life

19

Do you believe Christ returned invisibly ? Did Russell make everything up ?

by run dont walk in

in january, 1876, when he was 23 years old, russell received a copy of the herald of the morning, an adventist magazine published by nelson h. barbour of rochester, new york.

one of the distinguishing features of barbour's group at that time was their belief that christ returned invisibly in 1874, and this concept presented in the herald captured russell's attention.

it meant that this adventist splinter group had not remained defeated, as others had, when christ failed to appear in 1874 as adventist leaders had predicted; somehow this small group had managed to hold onto the date by affirming that the lord had indeed returned at the appointed time, only invisibly.

lurk

if you search at the british library and other library catalogues you will find other books about the 7,000 years theory....they werent the first to get these ideas. i found them through seaching watch tower titles

7

The cross -- new light?

by robhic in

i could swear that i read here a while back that the wts was softening their position on the cross.

i searched the different forums but either i am completely mistaken or my search technique sucked.

i found nothing relative.. anyway, can anyone shed some light (new or otherwise.... thanks,.

lurk

heheh buffy the vampire slayer introduces the WTS to Mr pointy .I wanna be in the scooby gang.

The cross argument has been used to infer the catholic church and prodestants are lost in paganisum and are not directed by god . They could never go back on it if they did it would have to many reprocutions.

in the article quoted by german its all very reasonable but still manages to hint at the incorrectness of anyone agreeing with a cross theory right at then end even though its just said it doesnt matter.the message is almost subliminal ..very clever.

90

Spells, Wiccans, and Witchcraft

by SpunkyChick in

i just returned home from a nightmarish trip to chicago.

i came in peace, and was shit on by my aunts and a cousin.

what they did was unforgivable.

lurk

as far as i understood history an stuff ive seen on witches

the name wicca/wicce (m/f) was pronouced witcha in anglo saxon not wikka which is the modern way of saying it. from anglo saxon witcha you get the word witch ...the name witch was generally used by the church ,the holy rollers and even the early and later medical proffesion , to label any herbal practioner ,midwife and any prosumptious woman evil etc etc because

1) they were jealous ,

2) they were in charge abit like the WTS

3) illness was suppose to be a judgement from god so to heal it ment you must be on satans side which is where it got its black satanic link from.

4) to be anything but a groveling christian must mean your on satans side

i dont know anything else.as for satanic witch craft i think thats just buying in to the churchy later historical perspective ,hollywood ,anton levey,and that other bloke known as the beast (i cant remeber his name ) and all that codswollap . the beast who really did do some bad stuff including killing ppl bought in to the same codswallop and wrecked his own life as he later admitted not long before he died didnt stop him though.

if theres any power out there im pretty sure its not at the beck and call of disaffected ppl looking for excitement in their life.

the only ppl that do bother me is a group whose name i dont know but ive heard of them via a bloke who did a radio interview trying to warn ppl .

they belive in satan not as devil worshippers do but as a real being who only has a short time to do as much damage as possible . to have revenge on humnas while he has time.(thats about the gist of it, i take it its a satan thing )

thier job apparently is to cut of as many ppl as possible from the light.ive heard they live like you and me nice ordinary everyday ppl with kids who get into your life and do what ever it takes to cause you to commit gross sins.so that you cause your own down fall.

the reason they are scary is .there are ppl out there worming thier way in to ppls homes ..holding childrens parties inviting your kids over becoming your best friends etc etc etc.now that is weird. to me and scary .you dont need magic with those ppl just a will to wreck lives,that to me is real evil.

5

ive been thinking again

by lurk in

i was thinking isnt it strange how everything in the bible like prophecys and god telling ppl what to do etc was always relayed by dreams ,visions and real things seen and heard .but today theres is nothing.

just flashes of light new teachings that dont come via any usual way god does things.

when he told ppl stuff in the bible he got into a dream or they heard his voice.so how do they come about for the wts?

lurk

L@ unique1 ,freein89 , hamas.

i wish id said it sooner.so im not the only one thinking theres no real proof.phewwwwwwww deep breath

grumby.you dont belive in it anymore?

i was hoping there was something in it, it would be nice to have something better to come.somthing better than this world to put i right.

young men having visions and stuff? m that would upset the WTS if its members started having visons not sanctioned by the WTS.it would almost be an act of independance.