Posts by MadApostate

35

Speculation on special October 7th meeting

by Seeker in

jw
friends

we have been discussing the special meeting being held in various locations on october 7th.

note, this is the day after the annual meeting, not part of the annual meeting itself.

reports have come in that certain individual congregations have been invited to attend.

MadApostate

Seeker:

I know this subject has been discussed in several previous threads, but could you summarize the "facts" that are known about this event.

For instance, I seem to recall that certain meeting locations have been identified? Also, which Congs (and their Circ) have been id'ed? I believe someone stated that buses were being chartered instead of folks driving?

I also believe someone indicated that a GB member would be at each location. Is this confirmed? That seem unlikely the day after the annual meeting.

How long is the meeting? Morning? Afternoon? Taking meals?

Common factors may enlighten us.

For instance, are "representative" Congs from each Circ being invited?
Pep rally?

Do all the selected locations have video facilities? Maybe the US dropoff has forced the GB to reconsider use of television, and they want to preview their first info-commercial???

Maybe the WTS is releasing a Kingdom News on the abuse issue, which will be distributed prior to the Dateline program?

With "unbaptised pubs" being invited, that might not indicate necessariy indicate "no big news", but rather that the "big news" is not "doctrinal" in nature, but possibly another type of "big news".

The fact that the GB has had a full year "of concentrating on spiritual matters", without the burden of overseeing the grunt work, creates an opportunity of introducing "new doctrinal light", since Jah would be blessing the new arrangement!

Who knows, the meeting could be earthshaddering, or it could just be another ho-hum pep rally???

39

Do Not Call List

by anglise in

jw
friends

do not call list.

an ex-jw in the uk has come up with a brainwave!!.

he canvassed his local area and came up with a signed list of several thousand householders who did not wish to be called on again by jehovahs witnesses.. this list was then handed to the local congregations and the london bethel who were then obliged to list all those households as do not calls.. has anyone else tried this?

MadApostate

Ranchette:

I've been inactive too long to know whether there is a SOP to occasionally re-check "no-call" requests, but I do know that once a formal notice is sent by a homeowner that withdrawns permission for JWs to enter their property for proselytising purposes, that any future call would constitute "trespass" (both criminal and civil), regardless of the "guise" of re-checking the homeowner's current desire.

As Nelly points out, this would result in "non-signers" receiving an increased number of calls, which will piss them off, and will further result in them "signing up", and/or being more antagonistic to knocking JWs.

All of this would accumulate into one big morale drain on the r&f.

Then, think what would happen if a few local hotheads also filed criminal charges and/or civil lawsuits against a few JWs...

My fantasies run wild...

39

Do Not Call List

by anglise in

jw
friends

do not call list.

an ex-jw in the uk has come up with a brainwave!!.

he canvassed his local area and came up with a signed list of several thousand householders who did not wish to be called on again by jehovahs witnesses.. this list was then handed to the local congregations and the london bethel who were then obliged to list all those households as do not calls.. has anyone else tried this?

MadApostate

Anglise:

This would be an excellent project for XJWs, Church groups, etc. It would be no more difficult than any other door-to-door petition drive.
Simply knock on a door, explain that JWs have a "secret" policy of discontinuing visitations if so requested in writing, with further explanation that signing your petition is all that it takes, and that such petition will be formally filed with both the local Cong and national headquarters.

About 6 weeks ago, there was a US news article posted here which related that a US citizen had successfully sued a JW publisher for "trespass" because that JW called at their door after a "no-call" request had been filed.

A photocopy of that news article could be given to everyone who signs the petition.

Something like this would be 1000% more effective than "demonstrating" outside an assembly.

It would likely eventually be mentioned in the local media, and possibly would snowball once people learned how simple it is to stop JWs from knocking at their doors.

12

DOES WTS own Kingdom Halls?- Challenge

by Amazing in

jw
friends

recently, the bonham, texas issue was discussed and comments were made that when the jws lost the hall in 1986 that the society then took deed ownership of kingdom halls to prevent another case like bonham from happening.. i challenged this as not being universally true, because long after the bonham case, i kept congregation files and we never made any deed transfers to the society, nor change our non-profit association charter to make the society a beneficiary in trust.. what i did yesterday: i am frequently involved with courts, judges, and legal matters, property titles, etc.

i checked on a kingdom hall at random near my office.

i ran a deed search and the title came up as being owned by the local congregation of jehovah's witnesses, and no mention was made of the watch tower society or any subsidiary corporations.. further, the kingdom hall in my analysis was purchased not long ago, but long after the bonham case.

MadApostate

ANuttyPerson:

You are totally clueless on this subject, just like on most other subjects.

Its a damn shame that some of the other people on this DB don't have the guts as E.H. and I do to respond to your nonsense, which misleads those who don't know any better, and hurts our "cause".

... Judges must award damages and will do so based on what they believe is the WTS's DEGREE OF CONTROL OVER PERSONELL & PROPERTIES OWNED.
If they look at deeds and the deeds seem to show the hall buildings are locally owned, then the Judges will tend to not award those to the victims. That would save the WTS some big dollars.

Response: Your statements are utter stupidity. Courts award damages based on degree of fault on the part of the defendant(s) in relation to the amount of damage caused to the plaintiff(s). Damages are awarded in dollar amounts, which defendants must satisfy with whatever assets they possess. Your nonsense about Courts making such assessments based on assets owned by the negligent parties is easily dispelled by common knowledge of abuse victims who are awarded millions of dollars against their abusers, but such judgment goes uncollected due to the abuser having no assets. That's why asset-holding corporations, such as the WTS, are also named in such suits.

Further in another discussion thread it's brought out that one possible upgoing move is the WTS may dump many if not all Circuit Overseers to not only save money but make it seem to Judges and others that the local kingdom halls have local autonomy due to no intervening layer of CO's which would indicate a Hierarchy. In reality the WTS would simply send in elders (even some of the ex-COs) who would be called local elders but in fact would be direct WTS appointees lording it over the local elders.

Response: Whether the WTS does or does not trim back on COs/DOs, it WON'T be for the so-called legal reasons you and others hypothesize. The WTS's relationship to local Congregations is irrefutable, and evidenced by many, many other factors.

Again, these things would be confusing to the Judges and Juries and give the WTS more wiggle room to challenge the big-dollar awards going against them, and if they due to such ploys can reduce their monetary losses even a little, that will help them.

Response: Don't assume "judges and juries" are as stupid as you are. Again, your line of reasoning is totally off base.

I think Silentlambs needs to read this too and to warn Anderson & Reinhardt legal firm of some that the WTS may be taking moves to mask their culpability and shield their assets even more than the coorperate restructuring they undertook in early 2001, still another "shuffle game" tactic on the part of the WTS and its attorneys.

Response: Jeffrey Anderson needs your help about as much as a prostitute needs a case of the clap.

51

JC FILE NOTES - What do they contain?

by Amazing in

jw
friends

jc file notes - what do they contain?

jones.. 15. brother smith would tell bro.

smith noted too that bro.

MadApostate

Cass:

There are some Elders who maintain confidentiality completely, and there are some who are like news reporters.

Back in the late 80s, I ran into my then PO and his wife in a local store. Right in front of her, he starts discussing a highly sensitive issue occurring in the Cong. I interrupted him, and suggested that the topic would be better discussed in private. He stated: "Oh, don't worry about her, she knows not to repeat Cong things to others."

The fact was that both he and she repeated everything to their JW relatives, and whatever they knew, everyone knew.

The sad act is that that asshole is still a PO today, and my relatives indicate that there is still zero privacy in that Cong.

At the same time, I have been in other Congs where you didn't even know who was the target of a "marking" talk, even months later.

51

JC FILE NOTES - What do they contain?

by Amazing in

jw
friends

jc file notes - what do they contain?

jones.. 15. brother smith would tell bro.

smith noted too that bro.

MadApostate

Is there now a SOP that "files" be stored at the KH? I thought the Secretary took such home.

If now kept at KH, is there SOP for where and how stored, such as one of these cheap residential safes?

I am also curious how many KHs now have security systems, and what kind?

16

Buy your car from The WBTS! Free keychain!

by LDH in

jw
friends

* http://www.circuitleasing.com.

for any newbies who don't know about this.

the wbts takes the cars that the congregations have paid for, and sells them.. do you remember voting to pay for a car for the circuit/district overseer a few years back?

MadApostate

Your stupidity is endless.

Why focus on how the WTS disposes of "auto" assets.

Maybe they could sell Bethelite shit to local farmers for use as fertilizer.

Maybe you need to sort through WTS garbage to see how wasteful they are in that respect.

YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. The auto leasing arrangement saves $$$$, thus saving $$$ for those who foot the bills-donors.

What do you expect them to do with older autos? Sell them at a loss?
Eat them?

Afraid of you "shredding me"? NO, just afraid of being buried under a mountain of stupid shit.

16

Buy your car from The WBTS! Free keychain!

by LDH in

jw
friends

* http://www.circuitleasing.com.

for any newbies who don't know about this.

the wbts takes the cars that the congregations have paid for, and sells them.. do you remember voting to pay for a car for the circuit/district overseer a few years back?

MadApostate

Genius WannaBe (NOT):

Maybe you could post those financial "specifics" about WTS subsidiaries to which you refer that you and everyone else know?

Your stupidity about the WTS being a "not-for-porfit" along with the inference that it can't sell something for more than it has in it speaks for itself.

Even your continuing statements indicate YOU don't understand how the process works.

Do you understand the definition of "donation/gift"?

To answer your last question: YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND MUCH OF ANYTHING.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
EDIT: I checked NADA (anyone who knows anything about auto values knows KelleyBB is a poor source), and $14,000 is exactly right for the Retail Price of these 1999 autos.

As for your comments below, ALL QUANTITY and NO QUALITY.

Post some financial specifics... NO YOU DON'T HAVE ANY, and everyone here knows it!

Dumbass, if you, a Cong, a Circuit or anyone else makes a "donation", you have no right to later ask for your money back just because an asset was disposed of.

Do you even know how much of the original value was paid off over the life of the lease? You assume the autos are fully paid off. You don't know such, or much!

16

Buy your car from The WBTS! Free keychain!

by LDH in

jw
friends

* http://www.circuitleasing.com.

for any newbies who don't know about this.

the wbts takes the cars that the congregations have paid for, and sells them.. do you remember voting to pay for a car for the circuit/district overseer a few years back?

MadApostate

LDH:

I don't know how you expect folks here to have financial "specifics" on this? Max probably can fill in "some" details.

However, from the "general things" that I know about such "financial arrangements", I see NOTHING WRONG with this, since it is primarily a "cost-cutting" measure. If any so-called "profit" ocurrs when the auto is finally disposed, then so what?

For individual COs and DOs to purchase individual automobiles, as well as resale or trade-in their old auto, it would mean a lot of lost time, as well paying individual auto dealers significant profits on the new auto as well as receiving low trade-in amounts, etc. Even if the WTS tried to negotiate a "good deal" from one auto dealer, the various issues would only be slightly improved, plus there would be the hassle of getting the new auto to where it is needed, as well as transporting the trade-in back to the dealer, etc., etc.

By establishing an "auto leasing" corp, there are numerous financial and time saving positives.

First, most problems due to "nationwide issues" are solved. Second, vehicles can be purchased for approximately 10-15% BELOW dealer cost. Third, auto mfgers will dropship an ordered auto to a local dealer (where the auto is needed) who will do any needed prep, paperwork, etc. for only a service fee. All a CO has to do is go to a local dealer and pick up the new auto. (Big time and hassle savings.)

Third, the CO's old auto must now be sold. I have no idea how "marketable" such are to JWs, but I'm guessing that JWs now consider such an auto as "holy". Circuitleasing probably has no difficulty selling the old autos for close to full used retail price.

Whatever "profit" they receive over and above the original cost minus lease payments would then recycle back to the WTS.

Does anyone know for sure that CiruitLeasing is a subsidiary of the WTS, or was it set up by outside "supporters"?

If they have not repurchased autos more recently than the 1999 models advertised on their webpage, then any "profits" from this operation will be very small. Has this page not been updated?

64

Bethel Closed Today!

by silentlambs in

i had a victim call me after they had called bethel this morning.

they were informed bethe was offically closed till 1:30 pm for a special meeting with the bethel family.

would anyone care to speculate or verify the purpose of the meeting?

MadApostate

E.H.

If you will read my comments in my BERRY CASE EVALUATED THREAD, I fully acknowledge Jeffrey Anderson's abilities.

However, in his online resume, he "boasts" of winning one case at trial level which revolves around a constitutional issue which "every attorney" knows will lose once it goes to the appellate level.

Anderson has become a multimillionaire suing religious organizations. He can easily afford to "harass" those which he does not like.

As I've indicated, I have no doubt that "politically sensitive" local trial courts can be swayed on this emotional issue (Just like the "county judge" in the Mormon case on this). However, once the case is appealed to higher levels, then the constitutional issues are weighed, and most are in the WTS's favor.

We will just have to wait and see. In the meantime, you can "saber-rattle" for probably the next 2 years or more, and maybe even beyond, since as in the REES case, it was promoted as theatening the WTS, even 18 months after the WTS had won.