Posts by andrekish

16

Is everybody barking up the wrong tree?

by andrekish in

an idea occurred to me that the fds may not be the gb but something slightly different.. i have no scriptural basis for this statement, only the practical evidence of what i can see and read.. the gb has been accused repeatedly of deceit and misleading people.

.

the witnesses themselves as a group are certainly faithful to, and discrete about, their gb depite the gb's apparent errors.. i simply wonder if perhaps the individual witnesses themselves could fit this description: ' a faithful and discrete slave'.. this is entirely guesswork and pretty much unfounded on any solid evidence, merely a thought.. any ideas?.

andrekish

Clearly, I'm not actually an olive tree, unless I get buried beneath one and slowly get absorbed.

Clearly, I'm not part of anthing 'faithful' or 'discreet'.

Clearly, a GB which promotes itself as the overriding authority is not 'faithful' no matter how hidden, or 'discreet' it tries to be.

Some-one, somewhere, IS barking up the wrong tree and is mislead if they believe they are the 'FDS' and are in some way infallible. (I've not heard Witnesses describe themselves as this but many seem to place an almost worshiplike faith in their Governing Body). This I definately noticed to be the case and thought to be a little 'robotic.'

Witnesses DO fit the description of 'Faithful' and they are 'discreet', as do members of many groups and if ALL Christians are part of the FDS then they, the witnesses themselves could well be part of the FDS. The witnesses I have met would not raise themselves to this level, believing they are unworthy, but, as has been mentioned here on this topic, it could well be that ALL Christians are meant to be included. I don't know. It could be that false humility is preventing us from working out who actually is 'the faithful and wise servant'. And some Witnesses I have met have turned out to be dogmatic domineering madmen. On the whole, though, they aren't a bad bunch, they do mean well overall.

What puzzles me is that after Armageddon, which I certainly think is on its way, there will be a crowd that no man can number.

Witnesses keep good records of their numbers so this 'great crowd' surely, cannot be just them. Not unless, at Armageddon everyone loses their marbles and forgets how to count.

Still, what do I know? I've only got the one brain and that's due for a service.

16

Is everybody barking up the wrong tree?

by andrekish in

an idea occurred to me that the fds may not be the gb but something slightly different.. i have no scriptural basis for this statement, only the practical evidence of what i can see and read.. the gb has been accused repeatedly of deceit and misleading people.

.

the witnesses themselves as a group are certainly faithful to, and discrete about, their gb depite the gb's apparent errors.. i simply wonder if perhaps the individual witnesses themselves could fit this description: ' a faithful and discrete slave'.. this is entirely guesswork and pretty much unfounded on any solid evidence, merely a thought.. any ideas?.

andrekish

Hiya OnTheWayOut,

Thanks.

Just checking for evidence that I'm an olive tree. Be right back.....

16

Is everybody barking up the wrong tree?

by andrekish in

an idea occurred to me that the fds may not be the gb but something slightly different.. i have no scriptural basis for this statement, only the practical evidence of what i can see and read.. the gb has been accused repeatedly of deceit and misleading people.

.

the witnesses themselves as a group are certainly faithful to, and discrete about, their gb depite the gb's apparent errors.. i simply wonder if perhaps the individual witnesses themselves could fit this description: ' a faithful and discrete slave'.. this is entirely guesswork and pretty much unfounded on any solid evidence, merely a thought.. any ideas?.

andrekish

Hello Snowbird.

Very interesting amendment. and it looks like my speellang could do with a bitta werk. Sorry folks.

But Snowbird has made an excellent point and well worth considering.

Oh well. Back to the drawing board.

Will let you know when I come up with another bright idea.

16

Is everybody barking up the wrong tree?

by andrekish in

an idea occurred to me that the fds may not be the gb but something slightly different.. i have no scriptural basis for this statement, only the practical evidence of what i can see and read.. the gb has been accused repeatedly of deceit and misleading people.

.

the witnesses themselves as a group are certainly faithful to, and discrete about, their gb depite the gb's apparent errors.. i simply wonder if perhaps the individual witnesses themselves could fit this description: ' a faithful and discrete slave'.. this is entirely guesswork and pretty much unfounded on any solid evidence, merely a thought.. any ideas?.

andrekish

An idea occurred to me that the FDS may not be the GB but something slightly different.

I have no scriptural basis for this statement, only the practical evidence of what I can see and read.

The GB has been accused repeatedly of deceit and misleading people.

The witnesses themselves as a group are certainly faithful to, and discrete about, their GB depite the GB's apparent errors.

I simply wonder if perhaps the individual witnesses themselves could fit this description: ' a faithful and discrete slave'.

This is ENTIRELY guesswork and pretty much unfounded on any solid evidence, merely a thought.

Any ideas?

55

The Watchtower, a cult that worships the FDS and GB!

by VM44 in

with the continual emphasis that the watchtower places on following and trusting the fds and the gb in particular, one can only come to the following conclusion:.

the watchtower (and the jehovah's witnesses) are followers of a cult that worships the fds and the gb!.

essentially everything in the bible refers to the fds/gb.. everyone must listen to and follow what the gb says.. everyone must consume the "rich spiritual food" provided by the fds and the gb!.

andrekish

Hello Moshe. Thanks for your post. Your are correct that I do need to get out of the house more, probably quite a bit more.

I have studied the Bible with various groups and have honestly found that the general ideas put forward by Witnesses are consistant with the Bible, ie, God's Kingdom on earth, the end of this man made world, Jesus' instructions to get to the Father, etc, are actually in the Bible. However, it does seem that some within the WTBTS GB have not been entirely honest and the official reasons given seem a little hollow and not altogether Christian in ethic .

May I kindly ask what a Shill is? If it's horrible it's probably deserved anyway and I do have a very thick skin having once been a Mormon.

I must point out that this site is excellent for discovering the hidden history of the WTS - especially the links to the UN which are most surprising and confusing, and for that I thank ALL involved.

Overall, I still cannot help but think that most of what Witnesses say is very sound and well argued, even though they are as susceptable to human error as are all of us. I don't feel that the GB is deliberately trying to mislead, but I am NOT expert in this field and this is early opinion only. However, it is clear that personal conscience and the Bible must be my guide at this time rather than the Witnesses' GB, who I know very very little about just heresay and who do in all fairness appear to have a few questions to answer. Indeed, they may have already done so elsewhere that I haven't seen.

In conclusion - I'm no expert just a viewer so best wishes to ALL my fellow humans. - apparently, if you sit me in a quiet corner and pat me gently on the head occassionally in passing I stop waffling on.

89

New CO talk: Be loyal to Org. even if you get weird instructions or can prove them wrong doctrinally!

by sir82 in

jw
friends

theme was something about "loyalty to jehovah's visible organization".. i have neither the time nor inclination to summarize the whole thing, but a few points stood out:.

even if it causes you personal hardship.

example: joshua & caleb returned from spy trip to promised land with good report, but were "outvoted" by the other 10 spies.

andrekish

Solomon to David: 'Above all things guard your heart.'

If your heart does not comprehend instructions given by men then those instructions must at least be checked and verified, as must the reasoning behind those instructions. Surely the bosses know that it is unreasonable to expect conscience to be calmed when clearly suspect instructions are given and not accounted for.

Do not Jehovah's Witnesses themselves say that man can only dominate man to his injury? It therefore follows that surely it is vital to explain clearly all cases and intructions given whenever they cause confusion or bad conscience. I cannot recall any accounts of Christ saying 'Do this without question.'

Merely as a casual observer I ask: Does the WTS have a complaints department?

189

Does God speak to you? HOW?

by Quentin in

an answer to this question is subjective to the individual an a posteriori experiene.

however, can there be an a priori experence, one that is objective, outside the bounds of personel experiene, or does it remain subjective?

god speaks to me, through many venus, except audible.

andrekish

What an excellent question. Hope this personal answer makes sense.

When I look at my hands and what is attached to them, ie the rest of me, I see the most amazing animated bio-technology in action. Formed from the ingredients of rock and liquid which cover this planet. And then I remember the stunning complex codes or hardwired DNA in every cell of my body, fused and linked to my brain's information processing system via a mindblowing network of living and growing nerve systems. 'What a stunning piece of work is life in all it's forms?' - quotation from Shakespeare (just in case it's copyrighted and Shakespeares lawyers are reading). Thus, to me our Creator displays his evidence and I look to hear His voice.

And the Darwinists shout: 'what a stunning piece of work is evolution.' And aren't they right? Of course they are. Science clearly sees the mechanics through which the universe unfolds. God didn't agree or disagree with Darwin but did give man the intellect to see clearly this evolutionary evidence and to work out the mechanics of the world. But a little voice inside says: 'So where did this computer code called DNA which is actively running in every cell of my body simultaneously come from?

And:

I have had, and keep getting, images in my head of events that later happen. Images that always, without fail, later turn out to be entirely accurate in all detail. I cannot find any branch of science which can explain this phenomena with any credibility. Sadly, this, and all paranormal/spiritual activity is as yet unexplainable by science.

So: How can a lump of flesh, dependant entirely on the physical world around it, see accurate events in the future? The only answer I have seen that makes any sense is that there is more to this world than we realise.

Since this phenomena has left me utterly convinced of the reality of the Creator is this God's way of talking to me? Who knows?

Perhaps it pays me to keep an open mind whilst I have yet to realise all the answers. Perhaps not. But whichever route I travel in my head the Creator speaks through logical scripture and kind heart. And kind heart tells me that our Creator went through a great deal of trouble placing and sustaining this universe. It appears to me that God wants this universe, and man, to continue its' existance, despite our human nonsense and wild ideas. God clearly wants us to have peace and joy on this earth. Does He not say so via His scriptures?

So I guess our loving Creator does speak to us, each in our own way, in order that we each hear His message in a way that we can realise and understand.

55

The Watchtower, a cult that worships the FDS and GB!

by VM44 in

with the continual emphasis that the watchtower places on following and trusting the fds and the gb in particular, one can only come to the following conclusion:.

the watchtower (and the jehovah's witnesses) are followers of a cult that worships the fds and the gb!.

essentially everything in the bible refers to the fds/gb.. everyone must listen to and follow what the gb says.. everyone must consume the "rich spiritual food" provided by the fds and the gb!.

andrekish

All Bibles that I have seen from ALL denominations contain the following concept, although individual wording may vary: Jesus said 'no-one comes to the Father except through me.' He also said 'Our Father, in the heavens, hallowed be THY name.' At no point here was Christ saying everyone come to Him, or everyone worship HIS name. Jesus said everyone should come to the FATHER and should worship HIS FATHER's name. Christ also said: 'Not my will, but THY will be done.'

In fairness to Jehovah's Witnesses, whether you love them or hate them, they do appear to agree with this idea at least.

And in fairness to ALL those pointing out the changes that have occurred in Jehovah's Witness 'Dogma' you are absolutely correct.

Are we all making it up as we go along?

15

Check this website out! Pretty pricey stuff for the JW

by Lynnie in

http://chbook.stores.yahoo.net/2006items.html.

andrekish

I'm not a member of WTS or anything like that but it strikes me that monies are perhaps better spent on Bibles than on firing missiles through some poor innocent family's windows. Unless all you wish to do with your Bible is to find people to attack with it or start yet another middle eastern crusade because we think we are better than everyone else.

I really cannot help but agree with you Pams Girl. And you don't get a refund on any unused bits of the calendars.

55

The Watchtower, a cult that worships the FDS and GB!

by VM44 in

with the continual emphasis that the watchtower places on following and trusting the fds and the gb in particular, one can only come to the following conclusion:.

the watchtower (and the jehovah's witnesses) are followers of a cult that worships the fds and the gb!.

essentially everything in the bible refers to the fds/gb.. everyone must listen to and follow what the gb says.. everyone must consume the "rich spiritual food" provided by the fds and the gb!.

andrekish

Having read various Bible translations and having studied the Bible with several different groups, evangelical, Mormon, etc, etc., it appears that Jehovah's Witnesses are the only group I have met who accurately relate what the Bible actually says. ALL other teachers I have come across have FAILED to teach what the Bible says. I am not a member of the WTS but I can see when someone is faithfully relating the Bible's contents and I have great respect for WTS no matter how crazy or self important it's members may appear.

Do remember however, in balancing this debate, that we are ALL a little crazy and confused and we seem to take the greatest delight in attacking each other in Jesus' name. ALL Christians are SELF APPOINTED. All Christians HAVE to live in this world of strife and man made troubles. All Christians' hands must get dirty at times while dealing with this society. Our salvation occurs, if ever it does, because of our own behaviour not because of the behaviour of any authority or governing body.