Posts by Maximus

79

What is G-JOBBING for Bethelites?????????

by JT in

jw
friends

had enough asked :.

if you haven't already related to us the experiences at bethel that you told to your mom-in-law, (or even if you already have told us) could you tell us about what you told her.....and...what is "g-jobbing" (sorry for my naivity) .

i didn't want to take away from sl post about his mother but i thought a little insight into the world of the bethelites would be interesting this am.

Maximus

I'm screaming with laughter, so many rembrances.

Danny Sydlik would hold up his right index finger almost straight up at 11 o'clock and say, shoulders back, deep WBBR radio voice, "Boys, I go to bed at night like THIS!" Puts his hand down and puts it back in the identical position. "And I wake up like THIS." Really had an eye for the ladies before Marina.

Another prominent Bethelite, also on the GB later who is now dead and I feel like protecting for a good reason, had private discussions with talented young men, posing for discussion the possibility that it might be better to masturbate rather than to marry and leave the Bible House! Didn't tell them what to do, but just put the idea there......

Were we shocked to see Danny on the governing body later on.

I'm saving for the book the details of Knorr's first new boy talk. Several of those attending are on the PA corp today. Pulled out all the plugs and microphones so no sisters could overhear at WBBR. There were a few boys from the cornfields who became ambidextrous after that one too!

John Erichetti. There was a time when nitrates were put on the table in salt shakers (it was called saltpeter!) because Knorr was told they did that in prisons to prevent horny boys from doing what came naturally.

Ah yes, Fern Couch..... Many of the early sisters were more like nuns in their treatment of wayward boys. George goes back to the first convention cafeteria food service days. Always had the best cuts of steaks, would not go to the lowly Bethel doctor, because he could afford the finest specialist.

We've got to plan a reunion, gang.

Maximus

Afterthought, added to edit: What I hope comes across from this thread is not titillation--sure it may be so to the uninitiated--but the full force of the truth that very flawed men are in control of JW life. It is these men who permit pedophic policies and the deadly blood policy that is even more evil, in that it kills innocent children.

M

79

What is G-JOBBING for Bethelites?????????

by JT in

jw
friends

had enough asked :.

if you haven't already related to us the experiences at bethel that you told to your mom-in-law, (or even if you already have told us) could you tell us about what you told her.....and...what is "g-jobbing" (sorry for my naivity) .

i didn't want to take away from sl post about his mother but i thought a little insight into the world of the bethelites would be interesting this am.

Maximus

Ah, memories ...

Were the housekeepers still instructed to do bedsheet checks for "wet dreams"? That was the dread of the less than fastidious.

In the early Playboy days, the books in the old Bethel library on such arcane subjects as "The History of Phallic Worship" were extremely well worn.

M

14

Is God Faithful?

by ticatoo in

jw
friends

god is by definition all knowing.

as an omniscient being, what is there that would require faith on god's part?.

god tells us in the bible to be like him... "be ye perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect".. .

Maximus

I understand the intent of your question.

Didn't want to come across arrogantly and say, The Greek says ... But that's what I meant by "original word." (teliotes; from telos, end, completion.

You are taking a koine word, using a Western dictionary definition of the translated word, as a premise of your argument. It's not just about words. It's about what ideas the writer is attempting to communicate in the target language.

But again, I understand your question, and gracefully bow out after offering this clarification.

Best,
Maximus

15

A Historical Jesus?

by uncle_onion in

jw
friends

i have been reading a book called the jesus mysteries and it puts forward an idea that jesus never existed but was born out of the ideas of gnostism.

there are many similarities between ancient religions and christianity, which is very worrying for me.

i have not had a lot of time of late to read up on it properly but here are the conclusions that i have come to so far.. did christ exist?

Maximus

::If we believe that he was the son of God then we have to accept the Genesis account as Jesus quoted from Moses and mentioned Noahs flood

The Gospel writer QUOTES him as saying that. Period. He likely believed it just like Paul believed the end was near. The Bible is a book of faith, not accurate history.

Who Jesus actually was and what someone then or today says he was, is another matter.

Quester, I appreciated your thoughts. I met Ray Brown just before his death. His scholarship was at an incredibly high level, yet he personally was not a dogmatic man.

Enjoy the journey; it's not the "right" destination, but the joy along the way.

Maximus

6

Lord, Spare Me From Victim Culture.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

ive often said that i believe that i am a good friend to have around in times of trouble.

tell me your problem once and ill do my best to help.

tell me it again and i start to wonder why you havent fixed it yet.. as a silver-ish surfer in my mid 50s i reckon that ive had my fair share of ups and downs, so much of the stuff that exiting jws have to cope with is very familiar to me.

Maximus

Amen and amen! (Hope someone doesn't start a thread about who's the biggest NonVictim, with all the sheep bleating Me, Me, Me.)

Em, couldn't you make that quotation "pseudo-logic"?

Now to my beef for the day. A friend called last night who is an alcoholic, in deep trouble because of you, Englishman. Not content with just showing a glass, but repeatedly POURING the Devil's brew in that icon! Poor sod now runs the risk now waking up just like Noah, picture courtesy of the Photo-Drama book.

26

Do you choose DA or DF?

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

some of us were discussing the other day the 'advantages' and 'disadvantages' of disassociating from the witnesses as against being disfellowshipped (for apostasy).. it seems from reading various experiences that most departing borgites choose to send in a letter of disassociation.

for them it saves the 'hassle' of being harrassed by the modern-day philistines, the elder class.

it also saves, to some extent, the reputation of the exdub.

Maximus

Alan isn't the only one who would be involved in such a test case, and they know it. What they fear most is exposure. They are going to get it.

I'm tempted to contribute more about the issue you raise, but will wait for another forum. JT is correct on the DA, but permit a little expansion, without my going into the theological stuff on origins of the DA. Legal has picked up on this as a potent tool, and is pushing its use. Key point:

The locals DF you.
You DA yourself.

If the prime directive is to protect, i.e., organizational survival at all costs, with the objective of less liability, legal and otherwise, then it is highly desirable for them to say YOU did something. The current position is to get one to sign something or write something at almost any cost, just so they can avoid liability. In one case, their pressuresome appeal was: "Well, if this is a matter of your own feelings and conscience, do the MANLY thing, write a letter." In another case: "Only cowards won't put their feelings in writing, blah, blah."

Unless it has been updated very recently, the following statement is to be read upon disassociation:

"By his chosen course------------------- has shown that he no longer
desires to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses."

Under some circumstances the phrase may be used: "You will be glad to know that spiritual shepherds are endeavoring to render assistance."

In BOTH the DA and DF, the door is wide open, and the audience and congregation is left to speculate on what kind of heinous conduct the individual may have REALLY indulged in. But in the DA, the elders can wash their hands, tut-tut, and disclaim responsibility. And further up the hierarchy they can breathe a sigh of relief.

Important note: Taking blood or illegal fractions (unrepentantly, of course) mandates a DA rather than DF situation. Obviously this mitigates against liability I've alluded to, and is the precise reason for the change in policy, transmitted orally by the CO to elders in 2000 in the US. Purely pragmatic, not doctrinal.

Cygnus, yours is a fascinating case. (Don't mean to sound like some MD looking at a bad leg rather than the guy with the pain.) I've scented this odor before. What I mean is that this smells of your bumping into the good-old-boy stuff behind the scenes, involving either locals or your CO, or the Service Department. Was yours a situation that could not have been ignored? Bet a large sum that this provoked some hot discussion in Service. Clearly the hardliner(s) won.

Now they are faced with what to do in the case of active JWs who don't/won't shun you .... I love it. The non-hardliners wait for the consequences, while the hardliners are hoist on their own petard.

Someone posted elsewhere about pre-DF days. In earlier times it seemed okay to have intense discussion, to have different views; there was more of a sense of tolerance and an appreciation of uncertainty in many areas, even at Bethel. But as the GB got to taking themselves seriously and making policy decisions on everything ...

Maximus

14

Is God Faithful?

by ticatoo in

jw
friends

god is by definition all knowing.

as an omniscient being, what is there that would require faith on god's part?.

god tells us in the bible to be like him... "be ye perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect".. .

Maximus

::Be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect".

That's JWthink if you read this literally, and not in context. (SJ is right about context.)

The context is, 'You heard it said [in the Law] love your neighbor and hate your enemy. I say love your enemies ... he makes the sun rise on the evil and on the good ... if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Don't the tax collectors do that? If you great only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing than others? Don't the Gentiles do that? So be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. " Good stuff happens to people who are good, good stuff happens to people who are bad.

The original word simply means full-grown, mature, used of a tree that has grown and now provides shade for the birds, fruit to eat, doing its thing. Some paraphrases say, "Grow up."

The Western concept of perfection just screws up a lot of people, and much of it stems from Augustine. "You could look it up."

::I'm beginning to think that knowledge and faith are mutually exclusive

After a life-time of learning, I understand exactly where you're coming from.

Maximus

79

What is G-JOBBING for Bethelites?????????

by JT in

jw
friends

had enough asked :.

if you haven't already related to us the experiences at bethel that you told to your mom-in-law, (or even if you already have told us) could you tell us about what you told her.....and...what is "g-jobbing" (sorry for my naivity) .

i didn't want to take away from sl post about his mother but i thought a little insight into the world of the bethelites would be interesting this am.

Maximus

::man my old roomate gave me the master list and i can't find that thing to save my life.

::we packed it in a box somewhere i got to find it

JT, you are giving the boyz 'n monitoring wet pants, now; for shame. They've had a very full day slobbering over the "positions" thread.

One of these days, it's gonna be

Showtime!

smile

M

23

Question for Tina

by Maximus in

jw
friends

skimming earlier, i noticed the name satir.. i had occasion to work with a very special older woman who was an absolute delight.

she had trained with virginia satir, who is now long dead, and vs had invited her to be part of her peace group.

(starts with an a?

Maximus

I was replying while your post came in, Rip.

::I remember the Advertising Servant. Seems like it was kind of a forerunner to Magazine / territory. Still have my magazine bag.

Decorated the store-front Kingdom Halls too. Did you use the special wooden blocks to wash it and keep it in shape? "Learn the remedy for world distress. Read The Watchtower." Slogans. Testimony cards. Groan.

::I go back to the "servant to the brethern". A.A. Worsley was our first back in the early '40's. Those were the guys who had to "rough it". They were there for the love of God and the WORK.

Good Lord! Art Worsley! He REALLY knew where all the bodies were buried. What a shame Knorr didn't let him marry as he wanted to. Too bad he could not have written his REAL story in the Watchtower. Jeff Schwem is so right. There were men who really put their heart and soul into it. And Art was one of them. Hated it when he had to play the game.

At that time period, guess who my servant to the brethren was? Young guy fresh out of Gilead who loved God and his brothers, and who was the epitome of Christianity then and now. Ray Franz.

Maximus

23

Question for Tina

by Maximus in

jw
friends

skimming earlier, i noticed the name satir.. i had occasion to work with a very special older woman who was an absolute delight.

she had trained with virginia satir, who is now long dead, and vs had invited her to be part of her peace group.

(starts with an a?

Maximus

Way to go, bijou!!

I'm most grateful.

Yesterday was the first Father's Day I've had in my life. My offspring just spoiled me rotten, together with their spouses. A joyous occasion. They have accepted their JW roots--but they've happily moved on, well adjusted and very secure in themselves. Virginia Satir would have loved it.

Felt like a king.

"It's good to be the king."--Mel Brooks

Maximus