keep in mind, now, i haven't been out in field service since sometime in early 1987.. this morning i headed off out the door and down the stairs, cheerful and ready to tackle the day.
got to my ride, and realized i had forgotten to pick up the case that contains my laptop and paperwork.
so, back up the stairs, in the door.
I sure hope your computer carry case doesn't remember a "witnessing bag"! Sheesh the Aussie witnessing bag was a formidable item - ugly as all get out. I remember my brother in law getting an unexpected cash windfall and what did he do with the money? He went out and bought the whole family a new leather witnessing bag. At first I thought it was a joke until he produced them. :-( A new front door mat would have been more exciting!!!
Marilyn
obviously a lot of you are no longer jws, for whatever reason, but surely you can find something better to do with your time.
you seem to spend a lot of your spare time slating the society or picking holes in your former beliefs.. if you've left and think what jws believe is a load of rubbish, thtat fine, you cn do what you want, but why you have to go on about it?
if being a jw means so little to you, why not just leave it behind and get on with your life?
OK Brucie, I have decided to take your cancel and do as you advise. I'm off to a coffee shop right now. What am I meant to tell them again????
Where have you been lately anyway? You've been missing meetings. Don't think it hasn't been noted and your demotion is in the mail!!!!
You're marked matie!!
Marilyn
i am floundering!.
today my jw son told me that he had seen an email in our family account written to me from an exjw.
it contained very little, but enough to let him know that i was in contact with outsiders about my doubts and feelings.
Hi LMR, Speaking as one who lost her family when she lost her religion, I know that they don't let up on shunning. I've now done 20 yrs as an outcast. Actually that's probably a little misleading. They will shelve the shunning regulation temporarily to accept favors or acts of generosity from you - they then allow an acceptableshort period of time to pass before returning to the full shun! You won't know ahead of time how strict your son will be - but given his hard line thus far, it's not looking good.
So ditch your principles, ditch your honesty, and ditch your apostasy! Don't forget WORDS ARE CHEAP - say whatever it takes to get over this hump in the road. If possible try to bypass the elders. Contact your son and tell him that you can't bare to loose his respect and affection so you have decided to engage in an intense period of Bible reading and prayer. Tell him that if you have the right heart condition and attitude then you feel confident that you can restore your relationship with Jehovah. Explain that ultimately the elders can't hold your hand thru Armegeddon, so you consider this a challenge - to stand on your own two feet and deal with this attack on your spiritually. Ask him to come and pray with you??
If he insists on the elders getting involved then repeat what you have said to your son to them - that you have given it a great deal of thought and that you are going to work really hard to overcome your doubts thru prayer and Bible reading. I really don't see how they can d'fd you if you don't admit to anything. Just be vague about the doubts - non threatening, wishy washy etc. Be humble and submissive and vulnerable and pathetic!!
It may all get too much for you over time and you may end up having to face the real possibility that you will loose your son. But don't give up without a good fight! Play dirty! They do!
Marilyn
obviously a lot of you are no longer jws, for whatever reason, but surely you can find something better to do with your time.
you seem to spend a lot of your spare time slating the society or picking holes in your former beliefs.. if you've left and think what jws believe is a load of rubbish, thtat fine, you cn do what you want, but why you have to go on about it?
if being a jw means so little to you, why not just leave it behind and get on with your life?
larc - and I caught on without doing any research! The only apostate I knew I thought was somewhat off the planet with their new found religious beliefs! Cripes I just watched all the hateful skullduggery in my congregations and amongst the 'friends' and then I matched it up with the scripture which said "by the love you have amongst yourselves, all with know you are my disciples". So I made a quick mental deduction (only three years) and then WOKE UP!
No research is necessary - just open your eyes!!!!!
Marilyn
obviously a lot of you are no longer jws, for whatever reason, but surely you can find something better to do with your time.
you seem to spend a lot of your spare time slating the society or picking holes in your former beliefs.. if you've left and think what jws believe is a load of rubbish, thtat fine, you cn do what you want, but why you have to go on about it?
if being a jw means so little to you, why not just leave it behind and get on with your life?
Dear Tedcobb, You post was reasonable for the most part. You asked a question, but can you comprehend the answer? Do you really want an answer or just an opportunity to speak out in frustration at so called apostates?
You would be wise to at least understand what our agenda is. Even Brooklyn representatives have met with high ranking apostates in order to get an overall view of what apostates claim is wrong with the WTS. Interesting eh?
In a nutshell apostates believe that the WTS is a fraud. They feel cheated of their time (sometimes many many years) and of the families they were forced to give up in order to leave. They feel the WTS plays God in dictating that families inside the WTS can not associate with ones who can no longer believe the WTS has the truth.
So - when the WTS abandons shunning between loved ones - and allows those who can no longer support them to leave without a punishent (Judgement is mine sayeth the Lord), then I'm sure you will have far less so called apostates pointing out the many errors in the WT belief system. Our efforts to expose the WTS are a direct result of their efforts to break up our families.
Do you really think we should lay down and play dead when you have taken one of our most precious possessions from us. In the majority of cases there is no need of shunning in families. Neither is the barbaric practise of "marking" acceptable.
Too many rules and too few people with the intestinal fortitude to stand up and say how needless it all is. If you are happy in the WTS that's good for you - but many aren't. Many feel brow beaten and dictated to. Many feel they weren't told the truth about shunning when they entered the Org. Do you tell the truth when you meet someone interested in the Witnesses? Do you tell people that the WTS will completely break up theirfamily if there is a loss of devotion in the future????
Most apostates do have a life! Without the treadmill of meetings and field service etc - we can raise our families and keep a lovely garden and enjoy a career and in our spare time we have time to alert would be WT recruits of the dangers that lie ahead. Had you been reached by us prior to your indoctrination you would be very grateful to us today. Now that you have lost you objectivity and critical thinking facilties - you are happy in the Org. I hope you don't suffer the loss of a loved one thru disfellowshipping - because if you do you may feel the painful stink of the WT ruling class!
Marilyn
i was just looking out the window, as it would happen a middle aged woman, or perhaps a young woman worn out with her life walked past.
she stopped on the edge of the mall where my wifes office is, and sat on a bench outside the window.
on close look, she couldnt have been more than late 30's, but probably only 35.. she sat for a while just looking at the ground in front of her, her face just exhibiting that blank look of the world weary.
I would like to warn you Deacon that getting back 'in' may not be as easy as you think. Amazing posted about this and a case that he knew of and I know a recent one too in Australia where they basically had it in for this guy who was a Witness for nearly 50 yrs. If you want to get back 'in', so that you can leave on your own terms, you need to know that you will HAVE to do everything on THEIR terms for the duration of your naughty little boy, stand in the corner, period. With my friend, who was d'fd for, wait for it, Reviling, they would not accept his repentant spirit for 2 yrs - by which time he contacted us and some other exjws, believing he was being kept out by Jehovah in order to bring us back in to the Truth. Of course we helped him see what a crock it all is, and he is out and free now. To show you how difficult the committee can be, this guy's wife committed adultery with another brother and was d'fd. She and the brother attended meetings and were reinstated and married after a year - getting a large wad of cash from the divorce settlement. Our friend had the nerve to bitch about his ex-wife of 20 yrs and the brother he'd called a brotehr for many yrs. So he got d'fd for reviling. AND they expected him to be truly repentant for bitching about her. Hell - what she did was dispicable!!!!
So - be prepared to swallow any shreds of pride you may have and make sure you are totally submissive and sorry sorry sorry and more sorry! Good luck
Marilyn
well, folks.
i just had a minor epiphany.
its a wonder it never dawned on me before, because it should have been so obvious.. we can forget about doing any more research or any more exegesis.
Sorry Fark but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Dubs could say that they spend their time studying the Bible and not music. They could explain that their lack of harmoneous know-how is more than compensated for by their _____________ (each Witness will bs at will here). However, your post was well worth the effort. I think you have inadventantly stumbled across The Apostates Creed! Is there any chance you can refine it, number it, and get it up on a Site near you? Seriously, we need a brief concisive list of the bleedin obvious to use as a basic guide - somethng that can be printed out and carried with us at all times. I know the last time the door bell rang and I could see the brief case thru the side glass, I thought: bugger, where do I start? My mind was racing. I needed your list.
Well done!
Marilyn
a sin worse than apostasy .
there was a very nice young couple in our congregation with one child.
no one could see why she should not be reinstated.
test
there are many perceptive posters here who have picked up on the mlm amway/jdub connection.. however, there are some who are not familiar with what we are talking about.
i thought for them it would be nice to list some similarities between the two organizations.. btw, amway has a new line of business, they're calling it quixtar.
so if you get approached for this, be aware it's just amway.
Dear Lisa, Though Amway and Dubdom are similiar, I think you potentionally get more from Amway that you do from the WTS. At least if you work your butt off (like totally off) you can get something back from Amway. As long as you don't mind demeaning yourself for money - which is what Amway is all about. With the WTS you end up demeaning yourself for nothing at all.
I attended a Nutra Metics (sp?) meeting one night. Eek, it gave me the creeps. The Ministry School revisited.
The WTS is superior to Amway in that JWs at least tell you what they are at your door for. Amway consultants pose as your friends and then spring it on you to help them get rich. On the other hand JWs don't tell you the whole truth when they come to your door - which makes them similar in that respect to Amway. I once heard the statistics on how to earn $40K per yr with amway. Convert 40 people and those 40 must convert 40 and if all of them sell $1000 pa (not sure of that final figure) then you the instigator gets $40K per year. I think I'd rather rob a bank - it seems more honest!
nice subject though
Marilyn
"disfellowshipping does not sever family ties.".
or so claims the watchtower's official faq.
so, i would like to take an informal poll: how has being disfellowshippid/ disassociated/ inactive/ just having doubts affected relations with your family?
My two brothers and sister have shunned me for 20 yrs - even though they no longer d'fp people for what I did (left quietly with no fuss) My parents tried to follow the party line but couldn't quite manage it. They have been hounded religiously (hehehe) for many years to stop seeing me. Considerable pressure has been applied to them to break all ties with me. Usually with the excuse that it will help me to see the error of my ways. Quite how not associating with one's loved ones helps a person believe in God, I don't know - but that's their logic. In the last few years my parents have developed serious health problems. cancer and severe heart disease. I went on the offensive and threatened national publicity if the elders didn't stop hounding my parents. Since then they have been left alone, but are "marked" in the congregaton as not suitable company for the drones who are 100% complient. Oh, unless of course one of the dones needs a favor!
The WTS has two faces. The one it presents to the outside world which is conveniently peeled away to reveal the real them.
Marilyn
