Posts by camicia

38

Double Lives of JW Youth

by camicia in

i posted a lengthy concern a while back about my 23 year old daughter on the verge of baptism.

the good news is she still hasn't progressed past studying - no door knocking thank god.

the bad news is she's still studying, attending meetings, etc and i am still very much a "satanic influence.

Hahaha if only i thought of that in the moment. But on the other hand I wasn't 100% sure they were doing a wrong thing and the elders would be interested in it. I know they told my daughter she couldn't associate with the world or be out in clubs anymore, though.

38

Double Lives of JW Youth

by camicia in

i posted a lengthy concern a while back about my 23 year old daughter on the verge of baptism.

the good news is she still hasn't progressed past studying - no door knocking thank god.

the bad news is she's still studying, attending meetings, etc and i am still very much a "satanic influence.

camicia

Yes, i see the cruelty but she can't. She's a very pretty girl (but with no self esteem) and these girls have nothing on her so i can see what's happening, (not to mention the jealousy and competition is only heightened when people are limited to a small group of people to socialize with) and until she gets baptized, they have a convenient excuse not to include her. JW boys on the other hand (minus the strict ones with parents in high places) have invited her out and she never goes because she doesn't want the girls thinking she's romantically interested in any of them and she doesn't feel entitled as i mentioned. It's just all so ridiculous. I think she's being misled, but she believes their story: we have to be careful of association until you're a witness, but we love you, etc. She thinks they plan things in front of her to keep reminding her that she has a decision to make and she's not making it fast enough.

38

Double Lives of JW Youth

by camicia in

i posted a lengthy concern a while back about my 23 year old daughter on the verge of baptism.

the good news is she still hasn't progressed past studying - no door knocking thank god.

the bad news is she's still studying, attending meetings, etc and i am still very much a "satanic influence.

camicia

Hi everyone,

I posted a lengthy concern a while back about my 23 year old daughter on the verge of baptism. The good news is she still hasn't progressed past studying - no door knocking thank god. The bad news is she's still studying, attending meetings, etc and I am still very much a "satanic influence." She's convincing me mind control with JW's isn't something to be laughed off because of her odd comments like "I HAVE to go to the meeting, it's like I physically need it." YEAH, worrying to say the LEAST.

Anyway, the girl she studies with tells her all sorts of things like the family she'll gain, and how much everyone will love her. I'm sitting back and giving her the freedom to do what she wants, but I've never seen her so sad and alone. She has obeyed the command to break off all relationships with the world under some promise of being taken in, but she is always at home unless she's at a meeting. It's worrying me sick. She keeps assuring me she has friends, but they're clearly not interested in spending any time with her outside meetings. When i enquired about this she told me the girl she studies with has said to her she's not being rejected, she just isn't "with them" YET and "Jehovah is testing you. Will you choose the world or us?" I think this is revolting but my daughter somehow thinks its fair. She's also under the impression that her JW friends are the most moral group she could ever be with and this is going to entice her into the cult.

WELL, so much for that. I was in a very worldly nightclub and there's this girl and a bunch of other young JWs on the dancefloor acting VERY worldly. So, even though they're telling my daughter she's not with them yet, they're out amongst the worldly people, while my kid isn't because she's at home obeying the f**king Watchtower's command to keep separate from the world and has not got any friends in it anymore. I can only assume they don't like my daughter for whatever reason (which is sad because she thinks the association is being withheld until she progresses when they still don't have to invite her even when she IS baptized) or they are keeping her away from their social gatherings because they don't live up to their self-proclaimed standards and that hypocrisy could make my daughter walk before baptism. I don't know if I'm on the right track here, though...

When she confronted her study teacher about it the study teacher said "I didn't like being there. Seeing your mom there was Jehovahs way of telling me to get out, so I left." CRAP! She was having the time of her life. My daughter bought it and still believes all their bullshit. On top of it they bring up where they're all going around my daughter and say "you have to start coming with us" but then she tells me "Mom, they don't actually tell me where I'm supposed to be going and they never follow through." I know it upsets her and she's lonely but she believes until she progresses she's not "ENTITLED TO THE ASSOCIATION." Nauseating! She's young and should be out having fun with people her age and it's heartbreaking that she's not. What the hell are they doing to her? I thought the fact they're out at nightclubs while telling her they have house parties and are some special breed of human who can resist the world, and "you'll be included when you're a witness" would be enough to wake her up but it wasn't.

Can someone offer insight into whats going on here? Is there truth to "We cant hang out with you that much, yet" which is why she's allowed to go to some gatherings and not others? I just want her to realize that having friends shouldn't be this complicated and conditional and they don't know how to have relationships. "We'll associate with you when..." is the saddest thing I've ever heard. Especially when they tell her she's well liked, etc. Is it their fault? Or is it the rules?

43

Is there no hope? (daughter getting baptized)

by camicia in

i'm really distraught about the fact my 23 year old daughter is ready to abandon a potential career in writing where her talent lies, and become a jehovah's witness.

i banned the study being held in our home, but it only hurt my relationship with my daughter, who screamed at me "i pay to live here and i'm not hiding, you're sabotaging my relationship with god!

" so i gave in.

camicia

" I had fallen in love w/ the 'truth' & the people & was praying to go out in the field service & it was all for nothing. I couldn't see that happening in my world and apparently neither can Jesus. "

" The bible can be interpreted - and misinterpreted in a thousand different ways and you can’t prove it wrong. What’s right is that Jesus died for our sins and through him we all have the hope of everlasting life. Implying that one religion offers salvation is as asinine as saying one pill cures all illness."

" Although these doubts and criticisms of the religion could get me labelled an apostate, (which is basically another word for “independent thinker.”) I’m entitled to voice them. Had I not seen another side of the religion, I never would have investigated it and unveiled some unappealing revelations. As it stands, I still attend their meetings and have a bible study because I’m not convinced becoming a Jehovah’s Witness is the worst course to take. If nothing else, I’m amongst people who share my morals. The majority are good people who do a good thing."

" I'm really upset.I believed it, fell in love w/the people, was eager to teach more. But turns out we really only see what we want to."

" I was so bothered by my findings i went to an elder who said "If you want to learn how to make a cake, you'd go to the baker."

" It all makes sense now. You need faith to swallow this religion's doctrine because facts have never & will never be there."

" I believe before you join any sort of group, talk to anyone who left it. some things never change but the names in the story."

" I look at the Watchtowers and cry because it was all so easy when I believed it. I lost sleep over “where to? What now? Who else?”

" I can't even knock on doors for a cup of sugar!I feel like unless a horde of zombies are chasing me no one believes I'm saving them. You KNOW me. I don't talk politics or religion. It doesn't come naturally to me to convince someone I'm right & they're wrong."

43

Is there no hope? (daughter getting baptized)

by camicia in

i'm really distraught about the fact my 23 year old daughter is ready to abandon a potential career in writing where her talent lies, and become a jehovah's witness.

i banned the study being held in our home, but it only hurt my relationship with my daughter, who screamed at me "i pay to live here and i'm not hiding, you're sabotaging my relationship with god!

" so i gave in.

camicia

Hi again, came across some rather interesting quotes she made on facebook, which I'll get to in a minute.

Thanks steve for noticing that i just write this out of love and concern. you're right; she's young and idealistic, and looking for quick fixes and fairytales at this point is to be expected. I never went through it because in my time, you just grew up, forced out into the world, and there was no time to think about it. So i cant relate. Society is raising of generation of dreamers, maybe. Then along come the witnesses with their promise that you don't have to work hard. the world is ending, this paradise is coming, and you can be there if you join us, AND all you have to do is witness a few days in the week and surf the others. (which is what the young and even older brothers do here.) But anyway...

it looks like your daughter is settling for the JWs because she can't find anything else that meets her need for certainty in this big wide world. I think so. I think thats what it is, exactly. From her recent quotes, she doesn't believe it's God's will, which leaves "well it's all i have." and it's not. But i don't know how to make her see that either. And the more meetings she attends, she'll probably fall further into the trap of the world being a scary place of scary people. Thing is, if i could see she was entirely happy with this JW lifestyle, i'd let her be. But i know she's not. The fact she goes from wanting to talk about it with me one day then not wanting to talk to me, period, about anything at all, let alone religion, the next, tells me she's confused and angry and god knows what. Her teacher has said to her that she can call her TO go out together, (because the congregation "approves!") and my daughter never does that, either.

With the paranoia, difficulty keeping relationships, and being a little on the crass side, has your daughter ever been tested for Asperger’s or autism? - jgnat

You're not the first person to mention that, so it might be worth looking into. I've always had a different idea of autism, unaware of the different kinds. I know she's always been a content loner. Waste paper bin full of declined invitations all through her youth. Wanted to stay in her roomwhen we had visitors. Her father and I rarely saw her, she could stay in there all day like she couldn't have cared less to have human contact. We thought we'd been blessed! we didn't think that the more time she spent alone the more time she had to think and turns out they were thoughts of doom and gloom. She's made comments like "I don't know how to be human." I don't know what kind of mental disorder leads to that thinking but it can't be normal. She's never had drugs, doesn't drink, so that has nothing to do with it. She doesn't want drugs as a fix for it either. It's hard because whatever developed, we don't know the source of it. But i think at the core of it is idealism. And the further removed from reality that she gets, the harder reality becomes for her. I don't know if thats autism, but as i said, it's worth looking into it because it's come up before.

Thanks for the brief story about your son, it helps to know other parents struggle. Sometimes we forget and it's all about our misery. As for ultimatums... i have threatened to kick her out, using the "your new family will be there for you." line. Her teacher called it "hot air." Sometimes I just want to dump her on this girl's doorstep with the suitcase just to see what happens next.

You need to find out what void the JW's are filling.

The JW's and religions of their nature are great for people that want to be "told" they truth and to be "told" how to live and that don't want the responsibility and effort of having to "do it" themselves. - PSacramento

I think you just answered the question. She wants answers, without having to rely on her own thinking because as i mentioned even though she's smart, she says "voicing an opinion is risky", so she has a fear of people obviously, and a very poor self image, and mostly she wants to be liked. Belonging to a group of like minded people is a quick way to get that. She's comfortable with the conformity because it means she'll be LIKE everyone else, too. I think that will ultimately keep her in. I know she's all about people pleasing since her views change to suit who she's with. So does her personality. I don't think SHE even knows who she is. Everything she says or writes (as you'll see shortly) contradicts itself.

diamondiiz, i figured there's a reason they're extra nice to studies. How disgraceful, plus it contradicts the whole "you're not one of us yet!" bullshit they're currently feeding her. I just want to scream "WHY DO YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS ENVIRONMENT!?" it sounds vile. The world isn't perfect, but it isn't as vicious as being limited to a group of people who don't even have to acknowledge you or who place conditions on friendship.

What i observed and found interesting was the young guys and girls were separated, mostly. Saw alot of guys with guys or guys with their family of 30 on a picnic blanket. I remember it clearly because i felt sorry for them. As for the girls without husbands? They were re-doing their hair and makeup in the PACKED bathroom. No part of the world, huh? Looked like a nightclub bathroom to me! I found the whole thing strange. Like a world away from the world (with little kids in suits for crying out loud in 90 degree weather) and very cold. I couldn't help myself, kept telling my daughter "THIS IS YOUR NEW FAMILY!" I throw that out so much because she's attacked me with it so often. She first heard it from an elder who told her that we didn't matter once you find Jehovah, and in the new system, she wouldn't miss us at all.

another BS argument. If wts didn't tell witness to go out they wouldn't.
Thank you! My point, exactly. Regardless of what the scripture they use to support the witnessing work, if the WTS issued a statement tomorrow saying "No more field service." there wouldn't be. Where would the holy spirit be then? Also, I've heard a JW say they were the RIGHT religion over the Mormons because "we do the witnessing work, only missionaries do it in the Mormon religion."

If she marries, she'll be stuck with a man who's entire family may be witnesses
Ha, I've told her this. I said "You'll be marrying his family and the entire congregation, too." She has a JW friend who married outside it and they split. He was sick of the elders showing up every second night at the house. I think my daughter goes to the hall and judges people from the picture and it's where her idealistic beliefs about marrying "in the truth" developed.' Pretty young girl married to handsome young husband all dressed up nicely, how wonderful.' But are they really happy? She wouldn't know that. I can't imagine my daughter meeting someone the JW way, dating with a chaperone, she can't be herself unless it's one on one. He wouldn't know who she really is if the third wheel is along for the ride. Then there's the nightmare of only ever sleeping and living with this person once you've made the biggest commitment there is and there's no way out. Might work for some people, (or they HAVE to MAKE it work or else) but surely enough young JW marriages have ended up in ruins that i could argue my daughter when she says "Ohh, they're just so blessed." Just because she hasn't seen it...

Now, here's her own words. Sounds like she's not leaning towards baptism judging by this, but who knows, she's like the wind. Keep in mind it's worldly friends opposed to JW who she's talking to here. I don't anymore what to believe. One minute she wants to use her brain and the next she'll stay in this just for the sake of not using it. One thing is for sure: she doesn't believe it 100%. Meanwhile she's still going to the meeting tonight!

I have to go collect these quotes to post, so I'll be back...

43

Is there no hope? (daughter getting baptized)

by camicia in

i'm really distraught about the fact my 23 year old daughter is ready to abandon a potential career in writing where her talent lies, and become a jehovah's witness.

i banned the study being held in our home, but it only hurt my relationship with my daughter, who screamed at me "i pay to live here and i'm not hiding, you're sabotaging my relationship with god!

" so i gave in.

camicia

she is a people pleaser and looks for acceptance and conflict avoidance - Witness My Fury

Nailed it. So I can see how a high control group that promises to take you in and do all the thinking for you (and everyone else you associate with) would appeal to her. Her exact words once were "Voicing an opinion is risky." That's just one of the many sad quotes she's come out with.

I try to stay out of her life, and while i appreciate the advice to let her make her own decisions, she's constantly making ones that lead her further down a black hole and as much as i love her, I can't keep pulling her out. I have other children, including one with a learning disability who needs more help than all my children combined (who witnesses were calling on at one point until they found out they won't be able to convert him because he doesn't understand, he's not interested, and don't expect him to tell you so.), and it's hard for me to help her when her method of dealing with her sadness and what ever misery she's experiencing in her head (pretty certain she suffers from paranoia and delusions and this idea that EVERYONE talks about her in a negative way.) is to withdraw. She didn't go to the meeting on the weekend, and hasn't had a study this week. She's already distancing herself from her new 'friends' and this behavior cost her friendships in the past. It's like she wants to belong somewhere but she won't make an effort to. The fact that her 'friendships' with JWs aren't going anywhere because of this limited association bullshit is depressing her. And the scary thing is, she'll say "I'M TRYING TO DO WHAT THEY WANT ME TO." It's just ALL ABOUT everyone else with her. What does everyone else think, what does everyone else expect of her, etc. So god knows how the hell she'll cope with the doors, she's likely to take rejection of JW's garbage doctrine, personally. Also, she's just NOT herself around witnesses, I've seen this false persona at the hall. She's not extremely immoral, or promiscuous or into drugs and drinking, but she is on the crass side, and is attracted to that kind of person and it's not found in the hall where most people are trying to be what they can't be. But she doesn't care because at this point she thinks it's all she has. I can't imagine she's having much fun around people who act holier than thou. She argues that suppressing her old personality (in other words WHO SHE IS!) is pleasing God. I've pleaded with her "How can you love God when you can't even love yourself?"

I've been through it with her since she was 10 years old. I won't go into it too much because this isn't a self esteem/mental disorder support forum. But that's to give you an idea where I stand. A lot of people have said let her make her own decision, and if that's to get baptized, support it, but I'm tired. And i don't want her to think I'm always going to be there for her, because one day i won't be. I can't be. And i can't support her becoming a JW. I don't want to know about it. I've told her that if she does it, she's moving out, because thats her new life and NEW FAMILY. The hall we go to isn't that friendly, it's quite clique-y and it's got a reputation amongst other congregations for being that way. So she convinced me to go to the 2 day assembly (I went to one day - and never again) to show me that it wasn't all like that. Well, it was awful. 900 or something of God's people, and maybe 5 greetings all day. At lunch hour, we walked the whole place, looking like sheep without a shepherd. Her teacher's answer was "Well, no one knows you're a study, they probably think you're witnesses." Oh, right, so the deal is make the study feel welcome, but once you're a witness, and you're still on your own, tough. That contradicts the present story: "you're not one of us yet so we limit association." Funny enough, part of the next talk inside was about widening out and my daughter took this as a sign that "Jehovah" is speaking so she's convinced again that it's the right religion, and the entire day was about putting your life aside to pioneer. Had we not car-pooled, i would have taken my car and left.

It's incredibly hard to be in these places, and all the way home hear witnesses go on about how blessed they are in the truth and how wrong the rest of the world is living when i know THE TRUTH that they dismiss as "Satan." That's why if my daughter decides to commit this, i can't support it or listen to it. I know there are nice JW's (just like there are nice people ANYWHERE ELSE, TOO) and i'm sad for them.

I've talked to her so much about why JW is false, that she's NOT studying the bible at all, just their literature, and she agrees, but then she says things like "It's all I have." I think she knows it's not real, but it's easier for her to stay in a lie than accept it IS a lie, if that makes any sense. Her fear of the world, if nothing else, will keep her in. And the religion constantly plays on that fear, as you know. The theme of the assembly WAS "Be no part of the world." Needless to say, she loved it and took 20 pages of notes. Her comment to me was "How can living for God and rejecting Satan's system be bad?" I honestly don't have an answer for that. I'm sure my silence is only convincing her more that this is the right thing to do. And i'm sure she replays back whatever criticisms i make to her teacher and other JWs who are loving the 'persecution.' that they've been long brainwashed to expect. That's why it feels hopeless.

"she will get baptized only to leave the organisation for good in about 3 years from now, after which she will join our ranks and become an atheist. - DagothUr

I hope not. I don't want her becoming an atheist because she has been brainwashed to believe her relationship with Jesus has anything to do with how many doors she knocks on, how many meetings she attends, etc. She tells me she's been PRAYING to go out in the field service, so even she knows thats not going to be easy for her because she avoids talking about religion with her friends because she knows they disagree with her, and in her own words "I can't even knock on a door for a cup of sugar." I'd say she's DREADING field service.

I said to her "Has Jesus answered your prayers in the past?"

-"Yes. That's how I know he's real. Humans haven't helped me at those times."

-"Well have you considered that he's not answering it because the organization is not the truth, and this so called apostate material thats coming to you now is his way of answering your prayer, telling you that you don't HAVE to do this?"

- "But, what gives the witnesses then the power to go out preaching if it's not holy spirit? Why is Jesus showing me the truth, but they're in the dark, when they pray to him as well?"

- "Jesus doesn't command them to go out, it's the organization they're committed to. It's an obligation. Maybe it's Satan giving them the power since they're actually teaching lies about Jesus, and they don't pray TO him, but through him. All through the witnesses bible, changes have been made to make Jesus seem like less than he is."

And thats what I personally dislike about the doctrine. "Jehovah God" wasn't crucified for our sake, Jesus was. And I know not everyone here believes in Satan, but I do, and it makes sense to me that Satan would back a religion that places decreased importance on Jesus. The bible says about the body of christ, that he who doesn't partake has no life in him, and the witnesses basically refuse it like it's a game of "pass the parcel." Since the 144,000 anointed ones is pure crap and the heads know it, WHAT is the purpose of this but to refuse Jesus? My daughter was startled enough by this, but has chosen to push it under the rug. I think the perfect world the witnesses have painted for her has a stain that she doesn't WANT to acknowledge.

And that's where the conversation ends.

Jgnat, THANK YOU, that's all so helpful, definitely something to print out and keep referring back to. Your last point hits home because I've been invited to dinners at friends houses who are witnesses but never pushed it on me, that seemed to be no strings attached, but when we got there, other witnesses were there and religion came up immediately.

I talked at the hall to a young girl who had been disfellowshipped in the past. Outright asked her how much misery came with it. All she could say was she was grateful for it because she otherwise never would have acknowledged she was doing the wrong thing, if her righteous friends and family hadn't distanced themselves from her. Spare me! That's another mind lost to this bullshit. I couldn't even treat a stray dog how they treat one of their own who strayed.

Of course i'll be there for my daughter if she was ever disfellowshipped or just chose to leave, but i fear what the aftermath will be of losing whatever friends she has in it. I can be loving, but i can't make up for the lost friendships or convince her that she hasn't LEFT God and she is still a wonderful young woman. This is why i don't want this baptism to happen. I want to avoid all the problems i believe are inevitable.

Thank you all so much, i'm overwhelmed by all the good advice and points I've overlooked. Her mind flip flops just as much as the doctrine has and i hoped by writing this that i'd be given some insight into how the JW mind works and I have a wealth of information. There's really nowhere else to turn, since none of my friends or our family (besides my brief study in which my ex-husband burned the books) have had anything to do with witnesses.

My new fear is she'll meet a guy and THAT'LL BE IT. The perfect JW man who doesn't cheat, doesn't look at porn, doesn't masturbate! LOL. I think she might be very motivated by fear and believe strongly in it's ability to keep people in order, and what she sees in the JW's is people who won't do everything she hates about humans out of fear. She knows all about these kind of mind control techniques, she was obsessed with "1984" by George Orwell which is about this sort of thing. So she's not ignorant of it. My worst fear is that she doesn't object to being controlled, or the people around her, being controlled. From what she's said to me she believes JW's are better than the worldly people because at least they have a conscience. Combine that with talks at the hall about the witnesses being the "glow worms in the world", and young sisters telling her "Hate the world, it's all bad, the people are terrible, Satan has just blinded everyone." and her own belief of "It's all I have." and thats why i say there's no hope!

43

Is there no hope? (daughter getting baptized)

by camicia in

i'm really distraught about the fact my 23 year old daughter is ready to abandon a potential career in writing where her talent lies, and become a jehovah's witness.

i banned the study being held in our home, but it only hurt my relationship with my daughter, who screamed at me "i pay to live here and i'm not hiding, you're sabotaging my relationship with god!

" so i gave in.

camicia

Thanks for the welcomes and kind words and help. I feel the love in here more than i do in the hall! (which i wont be going back to.)

Is she planning this for the upcoming convention? - talespin
Not sure on this... she hasn't been out door knocking yet (don't know the technical term for it) and the convention here is in 3 months. I think she plans to take the next step before baptism, soon hence the letter to the church. I wouldn't have a clue what the time requirements are when it comes to each 'level' to 'qualify' for baptism. Is there enough time to get baptized this year?

It sounds like your daughter is attracted to the wt for emotional reasons - Retrovirus
I think so. As i said, she's a good girl, and believes JW share her morals. She has been in the nightclubbing scene and was studying JW on and off for years, but only recently returned to it whole heartedly, because what she saw of the scene and of the youth made her say "I need to go back to God!" Unfortunately going to God to her means going to the Watchtower.

I think she also harbors a desire to marry a good JW boy, because she's attracted to their morals and love for God, but i've told her that it would require her to be a good JW wife and i can't see that happening because she's her own person, very inquisitive, a reader, a writer, needs her alone time and i don't think all the meetings, door knocking, and other commitments would make for a happy marriage because she'd be miserable. She has some fanciful idea of marriage - even saying "JW men are better than the men in the world." SIGH. I can se the brainwashing that no one in the world could possibly love God and be good people is working. She's not a very sociable person so i think the idea of being with the same people, in this tight knit cult, appeals to her, too.

WhatwasIthinking, thanks for sharing your story, very interesting. Your username says it all! That's precisely the question i want to help my daughter avoid. I do find it strange that she's experiencing the opposite. I would have thought her teacher would be inviting her out as much as possible so she can make friends and would want to get baptized even moreso. Your story confirms what i fear in that i'd hate to think they just don't like her out of jealousy or some other reason and getting baptized will not result in the network of friends she thinks she hasn't yet EARNED the right to hang out with because "you're not one of us." which is their story for now. I know there's people in the hall she talks to and likes and can't get to know better because she isn't acceptable company to them, yet. I wish she'd understand that if thats how they treat her now, it's a good indication of how conditional their friendships are, and what kind of people they are. I don't want that for her. She sees the love they have amongst each other but she doesn't feel it and believes she wont until she's baptized. And if she NEVER feels it!? from what i've read, more loveis shown to a study than a convert!

Camelot, sorry to hear that, it's exactly what i don't want to happen in my case. She has elders and such telling her not to worry about her family because the congregation IS a family, so with teachings like that, what hope have we got? And how they can say this cult doesn't split families apart is beyond me! God bless.

diamondiiz, she is comforted by the paradise teaching. She's already started using the "in the new system" line whenever someone has a THIS SYSTEM problem. And she IS currently asking questions that would make a JW squirm which is why i asked if that would be discussed amongst them and why different people/the squealers of the congregation are coming up to her at the hall OR if THAT'S why she isn't being invited out. She said one night's talk was given by someone who met her and said "I've heard a lot about you from [study teacher's name]" and it was about studies who "know it's the truth" but aren't progressing fast enough! HA! Is this how they get messages across?

43

Is there no hope? (daughter getting baptized)

by camicia in

i'm really distraught about the fact my 23 year old daughter is ready to abandon a potential career in writing where her talent lies, and become a jehovah's witness.

i banned the study being held in our home, but it only hurt my relationship with my daughter, who screamed at me "i pay to live here and i'm not hiding, you're sabotaging my relationship with god!

" so i gave in.

camicia

I might have thought that too but i've been with her to the hall and there's no dude she's particularly interested in being around, or speaking to. We would get there, and go straight to our seats where we'd talk amongst ourselves and i never saw her look at anyone and we'd leave right afterwards when all the young dudes hang around the hall to talk. I've seen my daughter in action, you can't drag her away from someone she fancies.

43

Is there no hope? (daughter getting baptized)

by camicia in

i'm really distraught about the fact my 23 year old daughter is ready to abandon a potential career in writing where her talent lies, and become a jehovah's witness.

i banned the study being held in our home, but it only hurt my relationship with my daughter, who screamed at me "i pay to live here and i'm not hiding, you're sabotaging my relationship with god!

" so i gave in.

camicia

Hello everyone,

I'm really distraught about the fact my 23 year old daughter is ready to abandon a potential career in writing where her talent lies, and become a Jehovah's Witness. I banned the study being held in our home, but it only hurt my relationship with my daughter, who screamed at me "I pay to live here and I'm not hiding, you're sabotaging my relationship with God!" so I gave in.

My friends are trying to console me with "It's not a murderous gang, it's a group of good people." but I have read the bible, studied countless religions (and come to the conclusion there are none that have God's full backing.) studied with Jehovah's Witnesses, attended meetings, and conventions, and my internet research of recent times confirmed my suspicions. It's just another false religion, and worse, it's a cult. And my daughter will be walking the street spreading a doctrine that doesn't originate with Jesus Christ, and i believe the witnesses are actually anti-christian because JESUS CHRIST IS THE WAY, AND THE TRUTH and the witnesses hardly give him any recognition, all i ever hear is "Jehovah God." Jesus Christ said "Come to me." and they teach "Come to the Watchtower." I also believe the memorial is a load of rubbish and it's DENYING christ. I worry that she doesn't fully comprehend that spreading alternate gospel is what makes her bloodguilty, not "failing to go door to door when you know the truth through the faithful and discreet slave." which is the rubbish i heard coming from her teacher during her lesson the other day.

I KNOW she doesn't 100% believe is it "the truth." I can't even type that without feeling nauseous. I'm skeptical of anything claiming to be honest, in the first place, so my daughter turns it against me, calling me a cynic, and thanks to her teacher, a highly esteemed pioneer in the congregation, I am now "Satan." and the lesson in my home is hindered by demonic influence. My daughter believes it! Her teacher also is eager to get into my daughter's bedroom, telling her that something in there is the reason she isn't progressing faster. My daughter has a stunning portrait of Marilyn Monroe i bought her and she thinks THAT is Satan because of what Marilyn Monroe represented! I'm just speechless. The brainwashing has well and truly begun. My daughter is already not mentally well due to years of depression and anxiety, so something like this can only make her worse.

She wanted me to attend meetings to show me that it was a "good and beneficial thing." So, I went along and loathed every second and slept through most of them. But i went in the hope of having a discussion with her later about the ridiculous things that were being said on the platform. Each and every time she'd just report it back to her teacher who has an answer for everything. My daughter is extremely intelligent but won't stand up for herself, either. Worse, she feels like her teacher is truly blessed because this girl said to reiterate that the internet is demonic "I've never had apostate influence because i was brought up in the truth and always protected by the holy spirit." FOR THE LOVE OF.......!!!!!!!!

She even spent time reading on this website and the next discussion we had, she told me she doesn't believe in it anymore. Alleluia!!! She said she realized it when she was told to write a letter to the Catholic Church where she was baptized and couldn't write "I've found the truth with Jehovah's Witnesses." During her next 'bible' study, she brings up some awkward questions that her teacher pretty much ridiculed her for asking and "Stop reading that internet!" at which my daughter laughs and agrees with her. She even went to an elder who went on and on about how Satan uses everything to attack, etc. I have to wonder what the elder really thinks of her questioning, since asking such questions once baptized is at the risk of disfellowshipping!

Next, she agrees with me that disfellowshipping is cruel and unusual, and for that reason she is ready to distance herself from the JW's and stop studying. Come the meeting night, she's changed her mind again. This time she is convinced by a brother in good standing that "these people exist to make your life hard, they never tell the full story, and there's no excuse for sour grapes because they knew before they were baptized what would get them disfellowshipped." She agreed with HIM after that.

But because he apparently just came to her out of the blue to say this stuff, she came home telling me NOW she wants to leave because of the gossip. She thinks her teacher has spoken to him behind her back about her lack of progress. When she confronted her teacher, the teacher said "We don't gossip." HA! So this guy is a mind reader, clearly, and my daughter is satisfied with her lies.

She has abandoned her "worldly" friends so she's got nothing now but JW's which frightens me. She told her teacher this who can now use it against her and does, telling her "you're not being rejected, we just can't hang out with you yet." More incentive for her to get baptized and be 'blessed' with these conditional friendship. They tell her how well she's doing in it and even she says "I hate how my spirituality and relationship with God is almost being measured." She really is a GOOD girl, the fact that she's still considered bad association is a joke. I've tried telling her what it'll be like once she's baptized if she thinks her spirituality is being measured NOW, but there's no getting through to her.

I know she isn't 100% about this, but WHAT KEEPS HER GOING BACK! I'm just at wits end. When i studied with JWs 20 years ago, i wasn't aware of the hall politics and the gossiping, so i guess my question is: if my daughter is questioning things during her lesson, and enquiring about TRUTHS that i've directed her to, then going down to the hall and these people are talking to her, are they giving her everything to fight me back with? Is that how it works with studies? I might be wrong, but is this marking?

I've resigned myself to the hideous fact that the more time she spends with them, and they encourage her not to listen to me, the baptism is inevitable. Thank you for reading, i know it's long and complicated, but i really needed to vent and all input is so greatly appreciated.

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Most Overblown Examples Used at Assemblies

by What Now? in

at a recent assembly, there was a talk highlighting the dangers of higher education.

the brother used an example of a young girl who went to university, began going to bars, and ended up getting drugged and gang raped - as if this happens to every young jw who chooses to get higher education.. .

what ridiculous examples have you heard used at meetings or assemblies?.

camicia

The example of the worldly family VS the perfect JW family. NAUSEATING.

Worldly family/ REALISM:

Mother is on the phone to a business client
Father says to daughter: "What did you do at school today?"
Daughter: "nothing. I'm out of here, I'm going to a party."
Daughter runs off stage.
Father: "Where at?"
Daughter: "I'm not telling you!"
Father gets ignored by his wife who is still on the phone.
Father gets out his phone.
"Hey rob? Let's go to the pub!"
The whole family disappears off stage.
The end.

JW Family:
The mother and kids are all sitting on the couch reading the Watchtower when the father comes home. (I laughed out loud.)
He sits down with them and asks them all what they did that day. They, of course, were out witnessing.
"Was it fun?"
The kid replies "Yes, it's always fun."
Then they start discussing their favorite scriptures! This deliberately went much longer than the worldly family skit to show just how much time the witness families spend together. Discussing scriptures.
Then the father says "How about we all go witnessing together tomorrow, and afterward let's call some other WITNESS families to join us for a picnic."

Oh man, it was hilarious.

And proving how stupid a JW is, during a monologue on finances, the woman said "We're just going to have to do sacrifices." It's MAKE sacrifices, idiot.