Sometimes I do, as and when a need arises, for whatever reason.
It's been proved. This house has elastic walls!
Chariklo
JoinedPosts by Chariklo
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16
Do any here have adult children living with them?
by Was New Boy inmy 34 year old daughter may be moving in with me for awile when i move to arizona.
we get along great but we haven't lived together in 14 years.
in these tough money times we feel two could live cheaper than one......i'm looking forward to the move.. three years ago i had my 28 year old son move back in with me for six months.
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65
What strand of Christianity gave birth to WTBTS?
by Band on the Run ini know about johnathan edwards and william miller being some of the forerunners of the wtbts.
how about much earlier in time?
was there a group during the middle ages or even earlier that preached something similar to the wt doctrine?
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Chariklo
Actually, Perry, it is not true that the Popes, as you call the Catholic Church, teach that there is no salvation outside their organisation/priesthood/ark, as you say.
The Catholic Church not only accepts all baptisms in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, that are performed with water and the intention to baptise, and they do not claim to be a sole means of salvation. Furthermore, when I studied for my formal theology degree, it was emphasised that whilst the church may outline principles in general, in no way does it see itself as limiting God's grace when applied to anyone at all, no matter who or where they are. A principle in general is often waived in regard to a particular case or person, and is always adaptable in individual circumstances...I don't know if I'm explaining it well at the minute or not.
That's all in marked contrast to the rigid Watchtower rules and regulations. No comparison. Of course, all these precursors of the Watchtower, Anabaptists. Cathars, or any of them, are not the same as the JW's. they are merely the roots from which they have sprung.
No Stonecutters, what you say is really interesting too. How very ironic that the Watchtower, with its open apparent hatred of all things magical...Sparlock, are you listening out there?!...should have the magician John Dee, a very intriguing man, as one of its ancestors!
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Jehovah's Witnesses dismayed by new magazine format from Watchtower Society.
by Balaamsass inwow.
i was surprised this week by calls from active jws complaining about the new magazine format, and more begging for money from the platform.. frankly i was surprized by this reaction since this is old news to jwn members.
i guess actually shuffling to the bookroom and grabbing the new "awake tracts" minus the inside cover forward ...awakened many sleepy, catatonic, bored jws who never read the things or go on the internet anyway.. any feedback from other areas?.
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Chariklo
I think you have a good point there, Aussie Oz.
The JW's I knew had all been thoroughly brainwashed into avoiding the Big Bad Internet.
I'm not on those sort of conversational terms these days, but I can imagine that some individuals must be experiencing cognitive dissonance at the minute, which will be uncomfortable for them, but since they are also brainwashed into "knowing" that whatever Uncle GB says is New Light straight down the airwaves froom Jehovah, it won't be long before they're obeying that too.
Obedient sheep just follow, after all, straight over the cliff's edge.
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What strand of Christianity gave birth to WTBTS?
by Band on the Run ini know about johnathan edwards and william miller being some of the forerunners of the wtbts.
how about much earlier in time?
was there a group during the middle ages or even earlier that preached something similar to the wt doctrine?
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Chariklo
I agree, Terry. That's exactly right.
They do have as their multiple ancestors though the various anabaptists groups whose markers included the demand that only adults could be baptised, and that baptism could be performed again and again, instead of the once for all time indicated in Jesus' instructions to his disciples.
At the root of all these groups, though, is the lust for power that you define, and sheer cunning arrogance (such a feature of JW's) as they insist that they can reinterpret God's requirements. They make God less and less accessible to ordinary people, insisting on an elite and exclusive group who qualify through total conformity to a norm they define.
The big question seems to be, did they, including Russell, have any degree of self-awareness? In other words, were they cynically manipulating the gullible for their own ends, or did they, insanely, convince themselves in a form of megalomania?
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What strand of Christianity gave birth to WTBTS?
by Band on the Run ini know about johnathan edwards and william miller being some of the forerunners of the wtbts.
how about much earlier in time?
was there a group during the middle ages or even earlier that preached something similar to the wt doctrine?
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Chariklo
I think you may find that the origins of JW-type thinking can be found much earlier than the Reformation.
The Anabaptisits believed much that is recognisably a precursor of Russell's thinking, such as re-baptism of converts, no military or nationalistic participation, no swearing of oaths, and even a form of shunning can all be found in groups going back into the early Middle Ages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptist#Medieval_Forerunners
i rather think it all goes back even earlier. Elements of their teachings are reminiscent of the Albigensians and Cathars,
http://www2.kenyon.edu/projects/margin/cathy11.htm
in a line that ultimately goes back to the Gnostics. There are more groups that I can't call to mind at the minute, but I'll try to get back to this and post them if they come to me.
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Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?
by AGuest inin a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.
in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).
that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.
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Chariklo
EP, please can you remind us where you have that reference, that Jesus is the stumbling block for finding Jesus? I know what you're talking about but I can't remember where it is, and the way you've said it isn't exactly how I remember it.
Thanks.
Qcmbr, yes, those kids were using the term backsliding too in their taunts. Is backsliding a JW term as well? I didn't hear it when I was in the KH. My experience was limited to about two years' intensive exposure, really.
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more wifey issues. she seen my phone and this web site was op
by unstopableravens inmy son grab my phone and wifey seen this site.
on for a second she was mad.
led into arugment today.
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Chariklo
Oh, Ravens, that sounds a bit like what might turn out to be a crisis for you.
Perhaps she'll step back from it, or perhaps you'll find some way of saying something that will make her stop and think.
Let us know what happens, won't you, and good luck!
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The Nature of God
by sabastious ini know that judaism and christianity are strongly self professed monotheistic religions.
yet, i wonder how they can so definitively say this when the word they chose to use as the deity in the beginning of their holy scripture is a plural.
genesis 1:1, and all of genesis chapter 1, uses the word "elohim" which is the plural form of "eloah" which is the prolonged form of "el.
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Chariklo
Botch, yes, it is, and that loving relationship that is the essence within the Godhead, so to speak, is what is known as the hypostatic union, that relationship of love existing within the Three Persons of the One God, which the ignorant JW's belittle and caricature as a three-headed god.
Because they simply don't understand.
Sab, your opening post is very interesting and I go along with you quite a way, but perhaps not altogether, although in some senses you are right. I'll need to think how to respond to that very well-presented exposition.
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Black Tie etiquette.
by Slidin Fast inok. it's 12:30 in england, i have to go to bed but i just wanted to throw this one in.. i went to a jw funeral yesterday.
not one black tie in the whole congregation.
no witness would dream of wearing a black tie to a funeral.
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Chariklo
In the part of Britain where I live, and also in my family, which is from the south-east and in East Snglia, wearing black, black tie, or as close to black as you can get, it normal and the accepted thing. That of course is in the non JW world.
JW's here also wear black and black ties, though.
These days, it is becoming increasingly a custom for some families to ask that black not be worn, and some even ask for bright colours, to celebrate the life of the deceased, especially when it is a child or young person. Still, though, I am used to black as the norm. When my sons go to a funeral, they always wear as dark a suit as possible and a black tie.
When I first read the title of this thread, I thought it was talking about what is normally known as "black tie" here, which is traditional evening wear, otherwise known as "penguin dress"! (Don't think for one minute that it is normal evening wear here any more, of course it isn't, but it is still required on occasion.
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VOTE TO REVOKE UK CHARITY STATUS OF JW CHARITIES! URGENT!
by Blablaman innot long left... closes 20/02/2013 @ 08:01am.
vote now!.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/29949 .
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Chariklo
The trouble is, as I've mentioned elsewhere, the Charity Commissioners are a toothless bulldog.
i have been involved for many years with a local charity. Upon the death of some of its founders, the remaining founders being very elderly, despite strong local voluntary support and the need met by the charity being ever more urgent, the new trustees opted to close it and divert the funds elsewhere, despite substantial donations to keep the charity running.
Submission of the facts was made to the Charity Commission. The local Member of Parliament was actively supporting us, and the BBC, local and regional, and all the local and regional papers gave us huge coverage. The campaign is still ongoing but we have been stonewalled time and again, even though the Police have an interest due to the trustees' connection with another matter involving a charity which is under criminal investigation.
We have gone as high as the Charitiy Ombudsman, to whom we submitted the CC 's actions, or lack of them. The next step would be a judicial review, which has to be privately funded, and the costs are prohibitive.
I mention all this (and won't name the charity or give a link for obvious legal reasons) because we've heard of other charities that have received similarly short shrift in their dealings with the Charity Commissioners. We had the support of tens of thousands of people, and big named support from household names. We got nowhere.
This is a worthy cause and all power to Cedars for all he does, but I think the outlook for this particular action is bleak...unless there should be a national scandal. Then, and only then, in my view, might there be any realistic expectations of success.