Posts by Chariklo

28

Study Conductor Challenge (plus hello!)

by educatingMyself in

alreet everyone!.

i've been watching and learning for a while, nice one on helping me see the real truth!.

long story short -> got interested in christianity, jws first to ask me about it, studied for a few months, realised they were wrong, tried to be a good undercover apostate, got bored, left, joined a local protestant church.. anyway thats not the reason i'm posting.

Chariklo

Yes, educatingMyself, don't let me put you off too readily.

I identified with you and kind of know how you feel. I never got to be baptised. I too have JW's whom I like, but realistically there is about zero chance of getting them to look at it again since although not exactly born in they have all been in since early childhood and are very, very committed, with children as missionaries etc.

No chance.

At times I feel vulnerable because they are indeed nice people with whom it's easy to relate, although there are also the other variety in the KH. Found Sheep, that's where I felt your comment could apply to me too, since I'm not baptised and am still in communiucation with them...because I find it hard to be rude to people who are otherwise the sort of people I get on with.

These people should be afraid to send their kids out banging on doors.

Black Sheep, I actually think using children, who can't possibly think freely for themselves, is really bad. Abuse, really.

69

How big is a demon?

by Terry in

jw
friends

things which exist are real enough.

we can measure them.

they are just this big and no bigger or smaller.. they are here and not there.. imaginary things have the luxury of being any size.

Chariklo

shanagirl, while I empathise with your desire to post a gnostic apologetic can you link that entire post you wrote and link it directly back to the topic of demons?

Perhaps you should start a different thread and we and others can discuss there, gnosticism? Perhaps we can understand the relationship between Orthodoxy and early (1st and 2nd century) gnosticism right here?

Well, ixthis, but threads wander, don't they? In the same way that conversations do. Isn't that part of the joy of a forum such as this?

PS, added after posting:

hanagirl - the gnostic gospels are written by Magicians who speak lies of Jesus Christ and mislead people into gnosticism!

Gnosticism - a big demon of the intellectual kind.

That's a sweeping statement. Sounds like doctrine. Gnosticism was there from the very early years. Elements of it are at least worthy of consideration, if nothing else.

122

Judas and Unforgivable Sin

by corpusdei in

i'll be the first to admit that i haven't done the research on this one, and i can't remember the answer from my jw days - but there's something bothering me about the scenario of judas and his betrayal of jesus.. considering that the betrayal of jesus by judas was foretold in prophecy, it was essentially set in stone.

it was going to happen, it was an absolute because divine prophecy is correct.

judas had to betray jesus in order to fulfil prophecy.. now, i've always personally believed that a person does not sin by an act that they cannot avoid, but this seems like kind of the motherload of standing on the traintracks.

Chariklo

I was commenting about Terry's latest post, Ixthis, not about Judas, there was no point about Judas.

68

Is there a correlation between personality type and leaving the WT?...

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

on facebook tonight there was a post asking to take a personality test, in posting the personality tests a trend started emerging that certain personality types seem to leave around the same time.. i came out as an intj which is introverted intuitive thinking judging.

which a good paragraph describing it was:.

intjs apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion "does it work?

Chariklo

ENTP

So far, I seem to be the only one here....

http://typelogic.com/entp.html

ENTPs are usually verbally as well as cerebrally quick, and generally love to argue--both for its own sake, and to show off their debating skills. ENTPs tend to have a perverse sense of humor as well, and enjoy playing devil's advocate. This sometimes confuses, even angers, those who don't understand or accept the concept of argument as a sport

Oh so true

Edit: just noticed, so far, everyone who has posted their results is iNtuitive. Don't know what that means...any ideas?

122

Judas and Unforgivable Sin

by corpusdei in

i'll be the first to admit that i haven't done the research on this one, and i can't remember the answer from my jw days - but there's something bothering me about the scenario of judas and his betrayal of jesus.. considering that the betrayal of jesus by judas was foretold in prophecy, it was essentially set in stone.

it was going to happen, it was an absolute because divine prophecy is correct.

judas had to betray jesus in order to fulfil prophecy.. now, i've always personally believed that a person does not sin by an act that they cannot avoid, but this seems like kind of the motherload of standing on the traintracks.

Chariklo

Absolutely, Terry.

How can the writer KNOW WHAT JESUS HAD IN HIS OWN MIND? The statement of what Jesus had known and how long he had known it is strictly a personal injection of the author into the narrative to smooth over difficulty.

And similar comments occur again and again. So much for "all scripture is inspired of God". Like, how could Moses actually know what happened in the Garden of Eden. As if he really wrote all those early books.

*sigh*

28

Study Conductor Challenge (plus hello!)

by educatingMyself in

alreet everyone!.

i've been watching and learning for a while, nice one on helping me see the real truth!.

long story short -> got interested in christianity, jws first to ask me about it, studied for a few months, realised they were wrong, tried to be a good undercover apostate, got bored, left, joined a local protestant church.. anyway thats not the reason i'm posting.

Chariklo

I would say, be very careful.

It's very unlikely you'll get them to change their mind. They'll have stock answers for everything, and they're trained to know that if they can't come up with an answer there and then they can go away and research or ask and then come back to you.

I set out to disprove their religion through their own literature and in conversation with them, because, and this is the key, like you

I actually quite liked my study conductors and a few others of the local kingdom hall lot

That was my downfall. Believe me, I never, ever thought I'd get taken in, but I did. And once the insidious stuff gets deep inside it's like ivy, it keeps cropping up when you thought you'd uprooted every last tendril.

I haven't been to the KH for...actually, it's only about 6 weeks. I receive frequent text messages, all from people who I actually like, and who manage to make it all sound very friendly and enticing. Of course, I know it isn't, I can read all the experiences on this site and fully understand that this thing is pernicious and I think very dangerous to me. Even though I was and am the last person who anyone would ever have thought would get caught. But I was caught, good and proper. And I am realising that I am still very much at risk.

So, don't do it. Stay away. The best advice I was given when I first came on here was Run Like Hell. That's my advice to you.

37

I had my first encounter with JW's at my door! I was called an apostate!

by Desert Rat in

jw
friends

so, i am getting ready to move across the state.

we bought a home there, and have taken a couple of loads over, with the main move being this next week.

i went over this last week cause i wanted to paint the kitchen and dining room before we moved in (a lot easier to do without grandkids and dogs under foot).. anyway... here i am painting away when there is a knock on the door.

Chariklo

I would not do it to a Witness child. Why be polite when they are unbidden and the Witnesses account for a large part of trauma in my life? They were never neutral. Unfortunately, even if I view the encounter as a win, I am souped up, recalling my powerlessness in the Witnesses. How rich my life has been since I left. Fury at my parents happens. They may be in tears but so am I>

Band on the Run, that is really moving.

15

Is it normal to spend so much time here?

by burnedout in

i am fairly new to taking a stand on what i have long felt about the org.

no longer an elder now (big weight off my shoulders), and really find i am researching on this board all kinds of things i suspected and are now confirmed.

looking back over the years i had many intuitions about some situations and never took action on those feelings.

Chariklo

As I got drawn more and more into the JW world I got more and more addicted to Farmville. One unreal world keeping me sane despite the insanity of another unreal world.

It can't be a coincidence that from the moment I discovered this site, and was enabled to set myself free from JW land (nearly, not quite there yet) I abandoned Farmville. Crops are wilting, animals are starving.I feel no incentive to go back for the time being, if ever.

There was nothing conscious about this. It's just the way of it, and I only realised it a few days ago.

69

How big is a demon?

by Terry in

jw
friends

things which exist are real enough.

we can measure them.

they are just this big and no bigger or smaller.. they are here and not there.. imaginary things have the luxury of being any size.

Chariklo

The size of a demon is as variable as that of an angel. Presumably. After all, in the Middle Ages a favourite pastime for scholars was to debate how many angels could stand on the head of a pin.

Speaking hypothetically, I don't think either type of being is subject to physical laws, so re4ality can't be brought into it since they belong to a realm outside reality.

Supernaturally.

23

Wasting one's life on an ancient fantasy

by Nickolas in

i could not help but think of my devout witness wife when i saw this in yesterday's funny pages:.

it is reminiscent of something she said awhile back about being restored to all the glories of youth when the new system comes.

from my non-theist perspective this is a sad example of escapism.

Chariklo

Have you ever noticed how Witnesses all think that the world is a terrible place. oh, they say that God made it beautiful but Mankind spoilt it. They concentrate on everything that is violent or brutish or degraded. Their questions at the door are often focused on war or criime or some such thing.

They never, ever, say "What do you thiink about the latest technological advance, or a new cure, or how smallpox has been eradicated, etc. It's all doom and gloom and Jehovah is going to wipse it all away with a sweep of his angry hand.

Nickolas, thanks for posting this, and I love the cartoon! I don't think, though, that your wife's delusion is a happy one. I think, as you do, that shje and all JW's are missing out on so much in a wonderful world.

PSacramento, thanks very much for posting the extract from the Dalai Lama. That says it all.