Posts by Chariklo

41

A few notes on September 15, 2011 Watchtower, fresh off the presses!

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

september 15th, 2011 watchtower, page 28, paragraph 13:.

"if a human overseer in god's organization provides you with instructions that seem extremely detailed, you might at times feel frustrated.

jehovah, however, is a perfect overseer who delegates generously and trusts his servants.

Chariklo

It's been viewed 106 times at this present moment, sd-7. I think ypu'll find that all 106 are busy downloading it for themselves and reading it with dropping jaws hitting the floor, or else wiping tears of laughter as they course down the cheeks.

I'm throwing you gold, man!

You did indeed. Masterly!

Gems I've especially noticed, as I've read through, are the insistent inclusion of WT buzzwords into what belongs to pure scripture. Thus, p. 27, paragraph 11, "Moses and Korah stand in sharp contrast when it comes to respect for Jehovah's arrangement". P. 28, paragraph 13, "Jehovah, however, is a perfect overseer". (!) Such presumption!

Then, on p. 29, paragraph 16, "Waiting on Jehovah and following directions from those appointed to take the lead requires humility." That is a hair's breadth from putting "those appointed to take the lead" on a par with Jehovah.

The illustration on that page is captioned ""Are you known by Jehovah as one who humbly submits to direction?" How very different from the loving Father described by Jesus, the God without whose knowledge not even a sparrow falls to the ground, who counts the very hairs on our head, who loved us so much he gave his only Son to die for us!

See that paragraph 9 on p 27? That list showing "how unwise it would be to seek to fulfil these desires in a way contrary to godly wisdom" (the desires they've already described as natural.) Shock, horror, "forms of health care that conflict with Jehovah's counsel." How untruthful. Not Jehovah's counsel at all, but their perversion of the Bible. I won't list them all, but of course they include a romantic relationship with an unbeliever. I'm sure Jehovah can be made to say that too. By them.

They're desperate.

I am coming to the conclusion that the GB, faithful and discreet slave and the whole WT caboodle are becoming increasingly divorced from reality, becoming, collectively, stark staring bonkers, more bonkers than ever, and growing completely paranoid to boot. They are hung up on power. They're manic. And that's dangerous.

19

2 years ago today

by coffee_black in

jw
friends

2 years ago today, my grandson began his walk from orlando fl to washington dc to publicise the plight of homeless children.

he was 14 at the time.

wow, how time has flown.

Chariklo

That's a great feat for a fourteen-year-old! How very proud you must be!

77

My Last Thread

by Maze in

my interest in posting here has deadened lately.

this will likely be my last thread.

initially i participated here because i was interested in sharpening my perception against opposing points of view.

Chariklo

The reason the faithful and discreet slave made these statements is because apostates have constituted themselves as God's enemies with blood on their hands and false concepts ingrained in their hearts and thinking.

Keep telling yourself. Make sure you go on thinking what you're told to. Don't run any risk of thinking for yourself.

Maze, people who think for themselves and disagree with the WT are not God's enemies. They're not disagreeing with God. They just see through the nonsense and dishonesty from the WT. They just think for themselves.

The WT is not God. God is Truth. Therefore, if the WT religion says it is the Truth, it lies.

44

If I do not go and speak with the elders by Sunday, then he will speak with them on my behalf.

by TimothyT in

my friend called round before and has just left.

he told me that he was worried about me and that he wanted to speak to me as to why i havnt been going to the meetings or on the field service.

i told him that im just not discussing the reasons at all.

Chariklo

Anyway, he told me, as JW's are encouraged to do, that if I do not go and speak with the elders by Sunday, then he will speak with them on my behalf.

This is just the kind of thing that proves it is a cult. In any other sphere of life, intruding in this way on someone's private life would be seen as shocking or laughable, in equal measure. Yet it is what JW's are explicitly told to do..."tell" on their friends, like small children. Dob them in. Really!

It does confront you, because it's a crunch point for you, between being honest with yourself and living a life that is truly your own, or knuckling under and subscribing to their beliefs. It seems as though one way lies happiness and one way lies social acceptance in a very enclosed, self-satified environment.

Not much choice, is there? Just walk away, head held high.

48

What would you say to a friend who claims to have experienced demons?

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

my jw friend says she experienced demons act on their own behalf even before she became a jw.

she supposedly used to be an atheist, but her experience with demons led her to believe in the "spiritual realm" before she ever encountered jw's.

she says her ex-boyfriend & his friend used to do the ouija board & as a result have a demon following them around.

Chariklo

InterestedOne,

Your friend will have discussed and rehearsed the type pf conversation she had with you, over and over again. She'll be able to trot out all her stock answers, and will merely see your responses as triggers for her to come in with any one of them, since her basic premise now is virtually unassailable: i.e. the Watchtower has saved her from everything demonic and she is safe in Jehovah's organisation, provided she stays there, trusts him (meaning the WT) and does her best to serve him (distribute magazines and seek out "deserving ones").

I know more than one witness who all fall into that category. And others who helped put them and those like them there. No point in arguing logically with them. Their logic begins and ends with what the WT tells them.

40

How can you spot an über-Witness?

by dgp in

is there anything that would let you know, right away, that you're dealing with someone extremely witness?.

thanks..

Chariklo

I know a few...

44

If I do not go and speak with the elders by Sunday, then he will speak with them on my behalf.

by TimothyT in

my friend called round before and has just left.

he told me that he was worried about me and that he wanted to speak to me as to why i havnt been going to the meetings or on the field service.

i told him that im just not discussing the reasons at all.

Chariklo

Mad Sweeney

the quicker you shed the Watchtower lingo (which is full of psychologically loaded words and phrases) the quicker you will be able to adjust to being an ex-JW.

Absolutely right, and very helpful to those of us who have got ensnared in the web too, as well as full JW's.Thanks.

Billy,

I would inform them of my decision to disfellowship all of them for apostasy.

I loved that. Yes, well the whole WT is actually apostate, isn't it? Except that, see Mad Sweeney's post above, most of mainstream Christianity doesn't even use that word. But that's what the WT is.

11

Watchtower Independent Analysis of its History?

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

in the june 2011 issue of journal of religious history author zoe knox, a historian, opined that watchtower was softening its historical position against researchers seeking to write an independent history of the organization.

boy-oh-boy is knox wrong on this point.

my presentation of information examines this conclusion by zoe knox in view of the position held by watchtower more than 80 years ago compared with a much more recent position statement by watchtower.

Chariklo

That's really useful, Marvin, thanks.

10

Here's another claiming to be the returned Christ: Ra-el

by poppers in

jw
friends

http://www.ra-el.org/.

.

anyone familiar with this guy?.

Chariklo

I had a bit of fun with Google. Ra-el, as you posted above, poppers, has competition, as a brief search uncovered. There are even photos!

First, the guy himself.

http://www.rael.org/home

(for his photo go onto the second page)

Then the competition.

http://www.pyramidoflight.com/rael1.htm

http://www.heartlights.org/council.html

http://www.ashtarcommandcrew.net/profile/JTariahEnRaEl

http://www.ashtarcommandcrew.net/profiles/blogs/ashtar-recruiting-now-from

http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9821.htm

You can have a throne in heaven to rule as king with Christ or be one of the Ashtar Command Crew.You can variously choose interdimensional travel, co-create the new world (no need to wait for Armageddon), and finally, you can join in positive atheism which turns out to be the raelian religion.

Enjoy!

Now, here's the question: just what about the WT makes it more believable than these?

20

Best way to record a JC (Judicial Committee) meeting

by RayPublisher in

just curious as to the best way to do it.

most new cell phones record audio, but that would leave with you when you are dismissed.

just wondering how to capture it all if it ever came to that.. .

Chariklo

Bookmarking. Such a lot to read here, with all the links, but well worth coming back to pursue and read all those.

On the one hand I have all these apparently nice people being friendly and texting me and basically love bombing me every day, and on the other hand here is the evidence of what this organisation really is.