NewWay

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Posts by NewWay

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  54

  The BEST things about the USA

  by OUTLAW in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we`ve seen some pretty mean usa bashing.so it`s time for a new thread about the good things in the usa..first off they got coors beer,a dam fine beer i must say.disineyland,what kid dosen`t want to go to disineyland?been there more than a few times and i intend to go again.tex-mex food,i`ll be dammed if i can get a decent enchilada this side of the border.the oregon coast with the giant red wood forest,a beautiful drive on a holiday.the humungas servings when you go to a usa restaraunt,especialy the steakhouse`s.so if you live in the usa,or go for a visit like i do,what are the things you enjoy in the usa?...outlaw edited by - outlaw on 2 july 2002 20:25:30.

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  NewWay

  * Cheap vehicle fuel - expensive in the UK, and rising all the time
  * Many excellent movies, and comedy shows
  * Star Trek
  * Diverse reading matter
  * Most Americans live there and not in the UK - sorry couldn't resist!
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  16

  About Those Heavenly and Earthly Classes...

  by NeonMadman in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  maybe this is just something that i never thought of before, and everybody else here will find it old hat.

  but i was thinking today about the jw teaching about the heavenly class (the 144,000, according to them), and the earthly class (the great crowd).

  specifically, i think that it is ironic how the watchtower actually reverses what the bible says about the location of these two classes.

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  NewWay

  NeonMadman, interesting post, the only problem is that JWs will point to Hebrews 12:22:
  
  "But what you have come to is Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem where the millions of angels have gathered for the festival." (New Jerusalem Bible)
  
  So, the argument is that the 'Mount Zion' mentioned in Revelation is heavenly, even though it takes its name from an earthly source. I'm not trying to contend with you, just making an observation. However, your reference to a 'great crowd' (Greek = 'megalen ochlou') being in heaven is indisputable (Revelation 19:1). The society has chosen to interpret the 'great crowd' (Greek = 'ochlos polus' - 'crowd many'; which is just another way of saying 'megalen ochlou' - 'large/great crowd') of Revelation 7:9 as being on earth, but someone with no doctrinal bias could reasonably come to the conclusion that both 'great crowd's were the same entity. A scripture that has a bearing on this subject of course is John 10:16 where Jesus speaks about 'other sheep, not of this fold'. Again, an unbiased person who knew about the early activities and experiences of the Christians and had read the Apostle Paul's letters could reasonably come to the conclusion that the 'other sheep' refered to the 'gentile' Christians who by comparison with Jewish converts would constitute a 'great crowd'. Viewing Jesus words in this way is compatible with the fact that Revelation refers on the one hand to 144,000 out of various tribes (as a representation of Israel, not an absolute - thus allowing for the slight difference in the 12 tribes stated at Genesis 49) of Israel, and a 'great crowd' out of all tribes of the earth.
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  18

  Wholewheat please read.

  by Pureheart in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi wholewheat,.

  when i first came onto this board i was shocked at the language too.

  please go to my member page and read starting on the second page, so there are rules of conduct, what rule of conduct exists here, too much hatred in here, get over it.

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  NewWay

  WholeWheat:

  I understand your concerns about how some people adopt a 'no holds barred' type approach to posting. As usual, Hillary_Step gave a well-reasoned explanation and valid observations with regard to 'board life'. Of course in an ideal debating environment, there would be respect for each person even if there was not respect for each view. Name-calling, being verbally abusive to individuals, put-downs, and being generally provocative, is in my view rather childish, that is why I am wary of certain people here who appear to revel in being abusive. I have, of course, the option not converse with them. These people are time wasters. The worst are those who use 'hook and bait' techniques to draw you into endless discussions that lead nowhere. They do no good to their cause (whether pro- or anti- the society/JWs). In my experience these people inhabit all sorts of forums (not just religious). They are like a vindictive kid on the beach who comes along and kicks over another child's sandcastle. For what reason? It gives them a sense of power. I'm talking about personal attacks on individuals. Now you come across as being a reasonable, thinking person, and this is just the sort of person I and others are pleased to engage in conversation, even if we may strongly disagree with that other person's point of view on a certain matter.
  
  There are some online posters in various forums who claim to be active 'loyal' JWs (and we only have their word for it!), but display an aggressive and abusive nature. I wonder if they would be like this if they were actually talking face to face with the other person. Here I think is the key: It is the mode of communication which provides the temptation to be less than civil. It is the shielding from physical human confrontation that makes it so easy to abuse others with seeming impunity. Just like road rage, people who may ordinarily check their behaviour let go of restraint because their vehicles provide a protective enclosure and the mobility to 'escape'. I used to wonder how people who got drunk could become aggressive, because alcohol only makes me sleepy and more relaxed. It seems obvious to me that given the right conditions (i.e. no/few restraints) people will exhibit their true inner self.
  
  People who verbally abuse others in cyberspace are not really the type of people I would want to talk to in real life, so why should I talk to them here? Don't be put off by those who have decided that its 'JW season' and that taking pot shots at JWs is therefore fair game. There are members here who, once they are satisfied that you are not out to 'get them', are more than willing to engage in meaningful and respectful discussions.
  
  Lastly, however, I would repeat what other members have said, and which you need to keep in mind in order not to throw out the baby with the bath water. Many folk have legitimate cause for complaint about things that have happened to them that are directly related to living life as a JW. So don't be surprised when you see posts lampooning the society and jokes directed to those within the organisation who abuse their positions of authority over others. This is a non-personally abusive way of releasing righteous indignation, but it is not necessarily directed toward JWs in general. In my own case, my argument is with the society, not with individual JWs, many of whom (in my experience) are kind, pleasant people to know and fit in well with my value-system of concern and respect for others. I do appreciate there are congregations like yours where it appears one can freely discuss concerns about the society without fear of being labelled 'apostate' - but based on the experience of many JWs and XJWs they are the exception rather than the rule. I think it only proper that you should treasure your friendships with the loving brothers and sisters you have in your congregation.
  
  Kind regards,
  
  NW.
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  101

  A NEW SIGN OUT FRONT AT BETHEL!

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think it's time bethel got a new sign out front, one that really speaks volumes and is far more suitable to their "read god's word the bible daily.

  i was thinking: .

  oh what a web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!

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  NewWay

  BROOKLYN BROTHEL:
  
  Queue Here To Ride 'The Wild Beast'
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  48

  YES! I AM FREE AT LAST!

  by Kjell Hedblom in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i just got out from jw bye a d.f.

  4 weeks ago after 44 years as an active jw.am i insane or why am i having that great feeling of freedom??

  i am sitting here infront of the computer having a cold beer and just enjoying life.shouldnt i be crying and having a depression sitting here in tears over missing all my jw friends that now are vanished??.

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  NewWay

  Kjell, I just stopped by to say that I really enjoyed reading your experiences. Thank you for sharing them with us.
  
  Kind regards.
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  25

  Our New Supreme - LDH

  by Beck_Melbourne in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  our newest supreme member ldh....great posts lisa...keep em coming!!

  you go girl!!

  woohoo!!.

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  NewWay

  Congratulations LDH!
  
  Just remember that I bow to no one now.
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  109

  Does being called an 'apostate' upset you?

  by wholewheat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do all of you ex-jehovah's witnesses get upset when you are called an apostate?

  you all call each other apostates, so why should you all get upset if i call you apostates?

  if you don't like being called 'apostate', what title would you prefer?

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  NewWay

  I would be interested in knowing who sustained Nelson Mandela during his incarceration. As has been pointed out, there are many folk who have remained true to their beliefs (whether religious or political or otherwise) despite long-term imprisonment and/or deep hatred and persecution. Being true to one's beliefs can obviously derive from one's own inner strength.
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  109

  Does being called an 'apostate' upset you?

  by wholewheat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do all of you ex-jehovah's witnesses get upset when you are called an apostate?

  you all call each other apostates, so why should you all get upset if i call you apostates?

  if you don't like being called 'apostate', what title would you prefer?

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  NewWay

  WholeWheat, thank you for your comments. I respect your decision to stay as a JW. However, I do not agree that the good far outweighs the bad. 'Good' and 'bad' should not be weighed by the percentage of what is written, but by the harm that is caused. It is the contention of many here and elsewhere that many JWs have suffered not only emotional damage but lost years of life due to belief in false promises and claims as well as personal opinions of a tiny few, all for the sake of being 'loyal' to the society. Even if you have not come to the conclusions many of us have, if you are a caring person you will not make light of the feelings of such XJWs (not that I'm suggesting you have, but please be aware.)
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  101

  A NEW SIGN OUT FRONT AT BETHEL!

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think it's time bethel got a new sign out front, one that really speaks volumes and is far more suitable to their "read god's word the bible daily.

  i was thinking: .

  oh what a web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!

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  NewWay

  * Knorr's Ark
  
  * The Vicar Of Heist
  
  * Faulty 'Towers
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  109

  Does being called an 'apostate' upset you?

  by wholewheat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do all of you ex-jehovah's witnesses get upset when you are called an apostate?

  you all call each other apostates, so why should you all get upset if i call you apostates?

  if you don't like being called 'apostate', what title would you prefer?

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  NewWay

  WholeWheat, there were many many JWs in times gone past who truly manifested a remarkable faith in God (most notably as a large group in Germany during the Nazi years). As you said these did not have WTS literature, or very little, yet they stood firm in the face of intense opposition and persecution. If nothing else they should be respected for their integrity to God (as they saw it). It is my belief that JWs who actually do personal Bible study and have a deep regard for the value of heartfelt prayer, can develop such a resilient faith, but I'm not so sure about those who simply go through the WTS rituals, however regular they may be. The key here is a real personal relationship with God.
  
  Regarding interpretation of Bible prophecy, it is interesting to note that in chapter two of the 'Revelation Climax' book it reads under the title 'Interpreting the Scriptures': 'The mysteries locked up in the book of Revelation have for long baffled sincere students of the Bible. In God's due time, those secrets had to be unlocked, but how, when and to whom? Only God's spirit could make known the meaning as the appointed time drew near. (Revelation 1:3) Those sacred secrets would be revealed to God's zealous slaves on earth so that they would be strengthened to make known his judgments. (Compare Matthew 13:10, 11.) It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: "Do not interpretations belong to God?" (Genesis 40:8) At the same time, however, we firmly believe that the explanations set forth herein harmonize with the Bible in its entirety, showing how remarkably divine prophecy has been fulfilled in the world events of our catastrophic times.'Now the trouble here is that on the one hand the WTS is saying that God would reveal the sacred secrets (i.e. correct interpretation would be made), but on the other hand the WTS is saying it makes no claims to infallibility. Either God reveals, or he doesn't. His Spirit cannot lie can it, or get just some things right? It is interesting to note the reference to Joseph. Although Joseph said this, it is obvious that God revealed the whole interpretation of Pharaoh's dreams, and there were no mistakes even though Joseph himself was only human. Joseph correctly pointed to the source of interpretation, God. The paragraph above suggests to the reader that correct interpretation would be given in due time, and the inference of course is that this has been done via the WTS, but a 'get out' clause is included in case any of the interpretations are wrong. Even though this clause exists, which really contradicts the 'God will reveal' bit, JWs nonetheless are expected to accept the various interpretations in this book as true. Try disagreeing at a book study with an interpretation and you will know what I mean.
  
  It is good to hear that the members of your congregation are loving individuals. Please accept that many XJWs do not hate the brothers and sisters (despite the sarcasm here at times - it is an outlet for those who have been silenced for years and years), but their protests are directed at the society. The society (as represented by the Governing Body) say they are 'God's channel' of communication, but seem reluctant to accept all the responsibility that such a grand position rightly would require. If one truly serves for the interests of God, then one should be more concerned about His reputation than the reputation of a religious organisation. I know that if you are a JW with some years of association you will be aware of Jeremiah's protestations and denunciations of the corrupt Jewish religious system of his day. Based on the way the society uses the term in our modern day, Jeremiah himself would have been an 'apostate' because he spoke out against the religious leaders of his religion.