Vivamus, that thought had crossed my mind! However, I've learned that these ancient languages can sometimes seem like they contradict or sound strange when put into English. A case in point is when Jesus tells his disciples to pick out a house and "stay there until you leave" (NWT). That sounds pretty obvious to me! However, the sense is that the disciples would find a home to stay for the duration of their ministry in that area, and not move about from home to home staying at different places until they left. I'm afraid we'll have to wait until there's a study on the word 'TELL'! ;o)
NewWay
JoinedPosts by NewWay
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WORD STUDY - 'Wicked'
by NewWay inword study .
'wicked' - part 1
"if i say to a *wicked man, 'you shall die,' and you do not warn him - you do not speak to warn the *wicked man of his *wicked course in order to save his life - he, the *wicked man, shall die for his iniquity, but i will require a reckoning for his blood from you.
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Ray Franz has anyone read Crisi of Conscience?
by 67mustang ini am interested in ray franz.
can anybody comment on him?
i've heard rumors, but partial ones from jw's.
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NewWay
Bleep, I understand your reaction. However, I would humbly suggest being very careful about saying things that might cause 'ruffled feathers'. Mention of Satan with regard to one's reading of Ray Franz book amounts to a value judgement. Before I actually plucked up courage to read the book I almost viewed it as poison! However, if you do read it with an open, non-judgemental mind, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. This also goes for Ray Franz' other book 'In Search Of Christian Freedom'. Even if you come away from reading his book(s) with the same view you have today, at least you can honestly say you've made an informed decision about his book(s). There are different characters here who vary as to intensity of expression (to put it mildly), so if you don't want to be called names (not that I agree with that, but then that's me), 'watch how you walk and watch how you talk' to quote one Kingdom Melody.
Kind regards. -
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WORD STUDY - 'Wicked'
by NewWay inword study .
'wicked' - part 1
"if i say to a *wicked man, 'you shall die,' and you do not warn him - you do not speak to warn the *wicked man of his *wicked course in order to save his life - he, the *wicked man, shall die for his iniquity, but i will require a reckoning for his blood from you.
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NewWay
WORD STUDY
'Wicked' - Part 1
"If I say to a *wicked man, 'You shall die,' and you do not warn him - you do not speak to warn the *wicked man of his *wicked course in order to save his life - he, the *wicked man, shall die for his iniquity, but I will require a reckoning for his blood from you. But if you do warn the *wicked man, and he does not turn back from his wickedness and his *wicked course, he shall die for his iniquity, but you will have saved your own life." - Ezekiel 3:18 & 19 (Tanakh The Holy Scriptures - The New JPS Translation)
* 'wicked': (1) HEBREW - Strong's 7563 = RASHA = "morally wrong"; "an (actively) bad person".
(2) GREEK LXX - Strong's 459 = ANOMOS = "lawless, i.e. (neg.) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by impl. a Gentile), or (pos.) wicked".
Compare the use of the Greek word 'anomos' in this New Testament extract:
"Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. This means understanding that the law is laid down not for the innocent but for the lawless [Greek = 'anomos'] and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father or mother, for murderers, fornicators [Greek = 'pornos' = 'a (male) prostitute'], sodomites [Greek = arsen+koite = 'male'+'by impl. the male sperm'; hence modern 'coitus' = 'sexual intercourse'], slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me." - 1 Timothy 1:8-11 (New Revised Standard Version). (To be continued...)
(Edited because certain special letters were lost and had to be replaced)Edited by - NewWay on 22 July 2002 13:43:9
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Ray Franz has anyone read Crisi of Conscience?
by 67mustang ini am interested in ray franz.
can anybody comment on him?
i've heard rumors, but partial ones from jw's.
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NewWay
Waiting thanks for the info. I have been to the web site you mentioned. Randy and I part company on some beliefs. My position is essentially the same as Ray's (as mentioned by Jan). I have not given up my faith in Jehovah or his son Jesus Christ, and for me much of what I believed as an 'active' (in the society's view) JW is still acceptable to me - I am not an apostate from the Christian faith as plainly shown in the Scriptures. I don't accept the 'chronologies' of the society nor do I subscribe to their 'greater fullfilment' modus operandum. I do believe though that what was recorded in the Bible concerning literal Israel has been placed as a 'warning example' of what can happen to those who claim to be God's sole channel of communication.
As for the 'theocratic warfare', stealing is stealing. Nowhere does the Bible justify theft as a means to fight the 'opposition'. It is a crime. If some JW does steal the book I bought then they obviously have double-standards.
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Ray Franz has anyone read Crisi of Conscience?
by 67mustang ini am interested in ray franz.
can anybody comment on him?
i've heard rumors, but partial ones from jw's.
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NewWay
Yes, I'm back. I couldn't resist! I just needed some time to readjust to the heady world of online forums with their diverse mix of people and opinions.
Last week I received my order of the latest edition of Ray's book 'Crisis of Conscience' and scanned it for new information. I made up my mind that I would donate it to my home town lending library so that it will be available to local readers - I already have the previous edition. I've also finished reading "The Gentile Times Reconsidered" by Carl Olof Jonsson, and was amazed at his scolarly work in questioning the WTS chronology.
NW.
BTW: Thanks to all those who posted kind messages on my "Last Post" thread. I hope to continue posting in the future. -
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Last Post
by NewWay inlast post
thanks to everyone here who welcomed me two weeks ago.
my intention when i first came to the site was to simply find information and see what others were saying about the jw organisation, then i felt inclined to post myself, including sharing my personal experiences.
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NewWay
LAST POST
Thanks to everyone here who welcomed me two weeks ago. My intention when I first came to the site was to simply find information and see what others were saying about the JW organisation, then I felt inclined to post myself, including sharing my personal experiences. This forum is well represented by people of different views and there are plenty of people here able to give support and encouragement to JWs troubled by what they see and what they have heard going on in the organisation. As I explained from the beginning I stopped attending meetings regularly a few years ago and now no longer go at all. I have a wife who is still associating with one of the local congregations. I have had some very positive feelings coming to this site, but I am now ready to move on and spend my spare time on other activities that do not remind me of the WTS - I hope you can understand that. If anyone - apart those who want to cause trouble (they are not welcome) - wishes to keep in touch with me and keep me informed of any important news then I can be emailed via [email protected].
Kind regards. -
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You gotta LOVE this forum!
by Sirona ini love this forum.
at the moment, there are lots of people saying bad things about it.
i want to set the record straight.
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NewWay
Simon, I would like to thank you personally for making this forum possible. It takes dedication to keep an enterprise such as this going on a long term basis. This site has provided me with an outlet to express my feelings and view relating to the society, something not allowed inside the organisation of JWs.
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Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!
by Francois inthere is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?
how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?
how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.
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NewWay
Francois, I would just like to add that although 'science' may not have said 'we're right and you're wrong', they've pretty much made up their mind that that is the case. When was the last time we heard, 'Evolutionist believe that we evolved...'? Today, without exception, our adults and children alike are told, 'When we evolved...' So, 'science' has made up the world's mind for it and the only real question that remains is, 'In what way did we evolve?'
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Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!
by Francois inthere is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?
how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?
how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.
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NewWay
Francois, some interesting observations. Heres my 2 cents.
If one believes that Genesis, as we have it today, is infallably inspired and is to be taken literally, then one would have to reject evolution as it is presented to us today. Genesis states that male and female were created 'as is', not through some evolutionary process.
However, if I do not accept Genesis as literal truth, then yes I think it reasonable that God could have put creatures through a series of evolutionary stages. The question is: 'Did he choose to do so?'. If so, what is the purpose of there still being apes left on the earth if the purpose was to graduate to the most advanced form of life on earth?
More importantly, can it be proved by real evidence? If there is indeed 'overwhelming' evidence, then where is it? I haven't seen it. The evolutionists cause is not helped either by the falsification and resistance to examination of what fossils they have that they attribute to evolutionary-man. There is a very interesting book entitled, 'Buried Alive' by Jack Cuozzo, that examines a number of so-called fossil 'evidence' and the lengths to which some people will go to try to convince the public. Even the British Museum was implicated in cover-ups. Why would this be? I get the impression that to many evolutionist, Evolution is their religion which they are desperate to protect. To me, the religious faith of others they look down on is no less credible than their own faith.
Basically, I'm not convinced that we evolved because as yet I haven't seen any real evidence. Different dating methods may suggest quite ancient dates for fossils, but does that prove that 'ape-like' skulls, etc were evolutionary pre-cursors of humankind? Has it not occurred to evolutionists that 'ape-like' remains may actually be from extinct varieties of ape? -
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A Newbie Introduction
by patricia ini am a "newbie" that has been "lurking" and commenting on a couple of posts over the last six months.
i was somewhat intimidated by some of the comments on the board so i didn't feel comfortable in introducing myself.
since simon seems to be dealing with some of the more "aggressive" posters i felt the time had come to introduce myself.
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NewWay
Welcome Patricia!
Simply put, I live my life day by day content now to leave matters in God's hands. I have not lost my faith in Him because when I was an active JW I developed a personal relationship, like you. There are also times in my life when I believe our heavenly Father gave my family a 'helping hand'. When I got baptised, the intention was genuinely to dedicate my life to the service of God, not to an organisation. I've realised that service to God is not dependent on a piece of paper and cold-canvassing the local neighbourhood, but on displaying Christlike conduct towards those who come my way who have a need that I can fulfill whether spiritual or material. I've found that help can come from some quite unexpected quarters at times, so I try to keep an open mind and listen to what other people are saying. Don't forget that God knows his own and it is not for others to judge who does and who does not belong to him, although Jesus did say that 'by their fruits you will recognise them'. I no longer believe that he has any human 'representatives' on earth in the sense of a group of specially appointed people - like a new type of Governing Body - but rather I believe that individuals (not religous bodies) can work with us to support us spiritually. Those individuals are spread out like 'wheat among the weeds' and are not concentrated in any particular area of the world 'field'. Hopefully you will find at least some here to associate with who will prove to be like 'a hiding place from the wind'.
Kind regards.