For anyone who's interested in this subject, here's a link to an article which includes an number of photographs of CTR's grave and the surrounding area. I'll warn you that the English version here has obviously been translated by someone not very fluent with our language, but it is worth reading nonetheless. http://pages.globetrotter.net/mleblank/occulte/wtfm.html
NewWay
JoinedPosts by NewWay
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Was Russell a freemason and an adventist?
by wholewheat inwas russell a freemason and was he a member of the adventist church?
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Was Russell a freemason and an adventist?
by wholewheat inwas russell a freemason and was he a member of the adventist church?
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NewWay
avengers, I too am aware of that quote, having seen it in a photocopy (digitized of course) of a convention brochure. I saw it on a web site some time ago, but I've forgotten where. So, yes if Russell said he was a Free and Accepted Mason, then obviously he was, unless:
* He is lying, or
* the document from which the photocopy was made is a forgery, or
* the person writing the document inserted the phrase, but Russell never said it, or
* Russell was speaking figuratively, which is possible in the context of the talk.
Even if he wasn't a Mason, from his comments it is clear he had friends who were. -
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Fear, perhaps?
by bigboi inhave u ever noticed that ppl contemplating becoming dubs actually experience a good bit of fear in the process?
all the recent talk of disfellowshipping brought this to mind.
ok, i know that when anyone is thinking about making any kind of committment there is a little apprehensiveness and anxiety.
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NewWay
Hi BB. I'm not sure that fear is always the reason folk don't get baptised. I get the impression that young people defer baptism sometimes in order to continue being part of the congregation - maybe because they have close friends there - without the responsibility that baptism is supposed to bring. I remember one of my children saying a while back that when she got baptized then she would change certain behaviour! It seemed that the youngsters in the congregation felt once you were baptized you were expected to behave better. My efforts to explain to her that a person is supposed to change, then get baptized as a public declaration of repentance didn't seem to make much difference. Maybe this attitude will in someway help to drain the society of new blood (no pun intended). My advice to youngsters is to say that you won't get baptised until at least age 18 because you want to be an adult when you make that decision, in line with the fact that the Bible says only mentions adults as getting baptised. When 18 comes along, you are in a position to say that as an adult you have decided not to become a JW! Certainly, if you never made it to baptism, then you can't be disfellowshiped, hence you are one step ahead of the society.
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Why I Stopped Apologising For The WTS
by NewWay inwhy i stopped apologising for the watchtower society - part 1. .
in response to requests for information on why i stopped being an apologist for the organisation, i have decided to write the following article.
what is written is not meant to attack the beliefs of jws, but rather to show why i personally came to the conclusion that i could no longer support the organisation.
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NewWay
WHY I STOPPED APOLOGISING FOR THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY - PART 7
In one of my more daring moments, when I was in my teens, I borrowed a book from the local library entitled 'Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave' written by a former JW. The German author, William Schnell, not only gave an account of his personal experiences as a JW, but also wrote about events involving such key figures as Joseph Rutherford. My reaction was typical of most JWs where 'apostate' literature was concerned: This was a vindictive man who told lies in order to discredit the organisation! Around this time the local view of 'apostate' literature was fairly mild compared with what it is today. Although it was not considered to be a good idea to read what former JWs said about our beliefs and practices, nevertheless, no one that I recollect was even in danger of even being the subject of a 'library job' - a humourous term used by some JWs to refer to corrective 'counsel' administered to a person by a couple of elders which usually takes place in the privacy of the Kingdom Hall library. Yet, it still took courage for me to delve into the 'contaminated' world of the 'apostate'. My previous experience with literature from this source had only been a couple of small booklets from a non-JW I met in the door-to-door work which pointed the reader in the direction of 'Christendom' - something I found spiritually distasteful. Two Very Special BooksWithin a couple of years, due to various talks and Watchtower articles on the subject, the local attitude changed so much that I felt I should not even be talking with anyone who offered 'apostate' literature, let alone accept it from them. This heightened sensitivity was no doubt a contributing factor in the guilt and sour feeling I had when first visiting my first 'apostate' web site. Although I had previously decided to stay away from Internet sites run by opposers of the organisation, the discoveries I had been making in my personal research must have had a desensitizing effect. Loathing for 'apostates' was being replaced with loathing for the way the society had been manipulating the minds of JWs. So, eventually my curiosity made me return to the web site I had previously visited. I realised that the lampooning of the society by former JWs provided these people with an outlet for the anger they felt towards it. Although not something that I felt I would be comfortable doing, I nevertheless thought that these people were justified in releasing the feelings that had been coshed and bound up under the name of 'loyalty'. By reading some of the personal experiences of former JWs on a number of different web sites, I became aware that not everyone had decided to change sides and join up with 'Christendom', nor promoted a 'worldly' way of life that opposed my own values. It was encouraging to me to know that leaving the organisation did not automatically change everyone's core beliefs or moral code.
Once again the name of Ray Franz came to the fore. Of course, I knew that he had written a book about his experiences, but I had not dared to wade into unknown, and potentially - as I saw it then - 'dangerous' waters by reading it. In fact I wasn't sure where I would be able to get a copy, as these sorts of books are of a specialist nature. I was now determined to read this book, and I didn't care whether the society considered it to be like spiritual poison. I'd had enough of all the restraints and guilt that had been foistered upon JWs by the society over the years. However, more than anything else, what helped me to make that decision was by finally being realistic about the world. It simply was not reasonable to think that everything opposers said about the organisation was a lie. If, as the organisation said - in order to absolve itself from responsibility over failed prophetic dates - it was imperfect, then it was possible that at least some objections made against the society were true. By preventing JWs from hearing another point of view and engendering a climate of fear over being 'shopped' by fellow JWs, the society is able to wield enormous power.
My search for Ray's book at an online bookstore revealed that he had written two books and so I decided to order both. I was already aware of 'Crisis Of Conscience'. The other book, 'In Search Of Christian Freedom', arrived first and I spent hour after continuous hour reading it. Not only were the contents astonishingly revealing and liberating, but my apprehensions about Ray's motivation for writing were quelled by his non-sensational approach. The absence of bitterness and his appeal to reason helped reassure me that I had not fallen into the hands of a spiritual troublemaker. 'Crisis Of Conscience' was eagerly consumed too, and its revelations about decisions on matters affecting the lives of millions of people were made left me with no room to resurrect the belief in the society's being 'God's channel of communication'.
The long-held view of holy men regularly pouring over the 'Word of God' and praying together in earnest effort to feed the flock was dashed to pieces as I found out that the once-a-week meetings held by the Governing Body (GB) were barely more than propose-and-vote affairs. I was astounded to learn that even though the GB were supposed to represent the 'anointed' in feeding the sheep spiritual food, there were no special arrangements to meet regularly with other members of the 'anointed' to get their advice and views on matters related to spiritual food. How can a tiny group of men truly represent a - by comparison - huge body of people when they don't consult them? Amazingly, it was revealed that some of the major producers of spiritual food were not even of the 'anointed' class - and this was many years before the announcement was made that some of the 'great crowd' were helping the Governing Body in the various departments such as Writing.
There were so many things that made me indignant with the society. It was one thing to make a mistake understanding, say, how a prophecy applied to the nation of Israel, but quite another where the consciences and Biblical understanding of a handful of elderly men were being foistered onto the entire body of JWs with the consequence of great hardship, emotional turmoil, and loss of family members (whether in death or through shunning). In my opinion Ray, because of his knowledge from the ultimate vantage-point as a former GB member, had provided the key any still doubting JWs needed to unlock the mental door that kept them prisoners of the WTS, and for that I am deeply thankful to God. My respect, admiration and gratitude also go out to Ray for being courageous and doing the responsible thing in publishing his experiences. I can honestly say that his two books settled matters once and for all. There was now no way I would be attending another meeting or in any other way give my support to such a reprehensible organisation. I was very, very angry and hurt that I had wasted half my life by giving such trust and allegience to a few human beings I didn't even know!
(To Be Continued...) -
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Alternative Definitions To WTS-Related Terms
by NewWay inalternative definitions to wts-related words and terms .
* 'great crowd' - a large group of people who turned up too late to catch the bus to heaven.. .
* 'prophetic date' - a type of fruit that may look good on the outside, but which some people find leaves a bitter after-taste, and others find too hard to swallow.. .
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NewWay
* 'Truth' - A type of food manufactured in Brooklyn, dished out by elders, swallowed by the congregation, and excreted into the neighbourhood.
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Why I Stopped Apologising For The WTS
by NewWay inwhy i stopped apologising for the watchtower society - part 1. .
in response to requests for information on why i stopped being an apologist for the organisation, i have decided to write the following article.
what is written is not meant to attack the beliefs of jws, but rather to show why i personally came to the conclusion that i could no longer support the organisation.
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NewWay
Lisa, I'm not that old!
Seriously, there is always hope, don't give up! If I had known even one year ago that I would be here happily writing these things, I would have been shocked, but as you will see by reading my experiences, gradually my thinking changed.
Kind regards. -
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Why I Stopped Apologising For The WTS
by NewWay inwhy i stopped apologising for the watchtower society - part 1. .
in response to requests for information on why i stopped being an apologist for the organisation, i have decided to write the following article.
what is written is not meant to attack the beliefs of jws, but rather to show why i personally came to the conclusion that i could no longer support the organisation.
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NewWay
WHY I STOPPED APOLOGISING FOR THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY - PART 6
Although the NT gives some information about the way early Christians lived, I reached a point where I wanted to know more about them. From time to time, articles would appear in Watchtower and Awake! magazines that quoted or dealt with the writings of men known as 'Church Fathers'. Even though what these men wrote was not regarded by the society as inspired of God, those writing the articles obviously felt that the 'Church Fathers' had a contribution to make in understanding early Christian thought and practice. Many of the early 'Church Fathers' were elders and other mature Christian men who were respected for their wisdom and understanding of spiritual matters. I thought that learning more about what these men wrote would be valuable in getting to know the early Christians better. Unfortunately, I found no books available locally that dealt specifically with the 'Church Fathers'. However, I did find a small book that presented its material in the form of a series of meetings of a fictitious modern-day study group, which I read and found quite enlightening. Some time later I was in a bookstore and thought about taking a look in the section labelled 'Christianity'. As with my first Internet excursion into 'apostate-land', I felt a bit nervous in case any JW I knew should turn up and see me amongst the books of 'Christendom'! I'm glad I did pluck up courage to examine the contents of the shelves because I came across a book entitled 'The Ante-Nicene Fathers - Volume III Tertullian Parts I-III'. This volume was part of a large set originally published by T&T Clark of Edinburgh. At first I was in two minds as to whether I wanted to pay 25 for a book that might not provide the sort of insight I was looking for, but I took a gamble and added it to my home library. Getting To Know The Early ChristiansTertullian, a second century writer, proved to be quite a scholar. It was strange to hear a voice from so far off in the past come off the pages with such intellect and wit. Certainly the humour of the man - albeit sarcastic - helped to create a very interesting read. Much of what he had written was to do with Christian doctrine, so I gleaned very little information about Christianity in action, but what I read impressed upon me the struggles that the early Christians had as they fought a plague of strange ideas which threatened the internal spiritual cohesion of the brotherhood.
It seemed to me that even Tertullian had not escaped the temptation to introduce his own ideas. Now and again I sensed an emerging proto-Trinity concept, although his own arguments against the 'heretic' Marcion contradicted such a belief. It became clear to me (along with later reading from other 'Church Fathers') that in the second century Christianity was in danger of moving into the hands of so-called 'intellectuals' who had more interest in debating theological issues than promoting the simple easy-to-understand teachings of Jesus Christ.
Not long after finishing this volume, I bought the first book in the series entitled 'Apostolic Fathers, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus'. This provided me with a lot of information concerning Christianity as a living religion. Because the lives of many of the writers overlapped that of the apostles the information was valuable in getting a snapshot of what the early Christians were like and how they went about their spiritual lives. What struck me more than anything else was - notwithstanding internal problems with some congregations - the affection and concern that they appeared to have for one another. It was obvious to me that they were a closely-knit community of individuals who saw it their duty to look after each other, with special emphasis on the poor, and those orphaned or widowed (compare with James 1:27).
I looked for evidence of door-to-door witnessing, but nothing. In fact very little was actually said about preaching, and what was said (and what was not said) led me to the conclusion that any witnessing was probably done informally or by means of publicised talks or discussions (see Acts 19:8-10), so any going from door-to-door would be as a result of interest already shown as a result of these methods. Another thing that caught my attention was the great courage and humility shown by these Christians and the ever present danger of being condemned to die for simply bearing the name of Christ. To me, these things tallied well with the NT teachings of Jesus and the Bible's depiction of Christianity. On the other hand, there were some writers who seemed very interested in reminding the sheep of the importance of their 'bishops' (elders) and the respect that was due them. After reading other 'Church' history books, I saw that in a short period of time the original arrangement of a small group of humble people sharing equal status had been replaced by a system whereby the majority (laity) came under the authority of a minority (clergy), and that discussion on matters of doctrine and the appointment of 'leaders' were taken right out of the hands of individual congregations and put into the hands of a centralised body of men. As we know churches and huge religious buildings started to be built (belonging of course to the central body) which replaced the humble home gatherings of the first Christians. Something sounded familiar!
The forerunners of JWs (known as Bible Students) used to meet in each other's homes for spiritual edification. Although C. T. Russell was instrumental in bringing about the Bible Students Association, originally each congregation was autonomous, which meant there was no central body to dictate what each congregation must do in matters of a spiritual nature - presumably if the members of one congregation felt that the members of another were not keeping to the 'true' faith then they could simply refuse to associate with them. From what I had read about the Bible Students of this time there was a real sense of love and a concern for each other's well-being. However, as we know things changed dramatically within a very short period of time. It seemed to me that history had repeated itself and that the relatively benign word 'organise' had been used to cover up the real intent of those opportunists who really wanted to 'control'. (To Be Continued...) -
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Why I Stopped Apologising For The WTS
by NewWay inwhy i stopped apologising for the watchtower society - part 1. .
in response to requests for information on why i stopped being an apologist for the organisation, i have decided to write the following article.
what is written is not meant to attack the beliefs of jws, but rather to show why i personally came to the conclusion that i could no longer support the organisation.
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NewWay
Kjell, thank you very much for the encouragement!
(((((((((((Kjell and Family))))))))))
Here is the next instalment: -
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Alternative Definitions To WTS-Related Terms
by NewWay inalternative definitions to wts-related words and terms .
* 'great crowd' - a large group of people who turned up too late to catch the bus to heaven.. .
* 'prophetic date' - a type of fruit that may look good on the outside, but which some people find leaves a bitter after-taste, and others find too hard to swallow.. .
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NewWay
ALTERNATIVE DEFINITIONS TO WTS-RELATED WORDS AND TERMS
* 'Great Crowd' - A large group of people who turned up too late to catch the bus to heaven.
* 'Prophetic Date' - A type of fruit that may look good on the outside, but which some people find leaves a bitter after-taste, and others find too hard to swallow.
* 'Theocratic Ministry School Talk' - A speaking assignment which when given by a female requires ignoring the audience and talking to someone else.
* 'Shepherding Call' - A very rare meeting designed specially for those who think that five meetings a week is a bit much.
* 'Bible Study' - A course of instruction that requires very little creativity due to the fact that each study book comes complete with all the right conclusions.
* 'Assembly' - Romantic hunting ground for young people.
* 'Beard' - Something worn by male JWs to prevent being lumbered with 'theocratic privileges'.
Please add your own alternative definitions below! -
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My Life
by Paradiselost inmy experiences, i'm sure, are not unique among the posters of this forum.
i am 19 years old and was born into the religion.
my family although devout, avid witnesses are on the liberal side.
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NewWay
I agree with many here who think that the best way to leave is just to 'fade away'. I would especially recommend this where one has family members who are still 'loyal' JWs.