Posts by snare&racket

7

Predicting the future like Isaac

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

the prophet from the stars, mr isaac asimov made some predictions for 2014, (please note the lack of ambigous monsters of several heads and horns)....he was very, very specific all the way back in 1964..... communications will become sight-sound and you will see as well as hear the person you telephone.

the screen can be used not only to see the people you call but also for studying documents and photographs and reading passages from books.

synchronous satellites hovering in space will make it possible for you to direct-dial any spot on earth.. by 2014, only unmanned ships will have landed on mars, though a manned expedition will be in the work.. gadgetry will continue to relieve mankind of tedious jobs.

snare&racket

no I havent, is that the one where he talks about the star trek technology?

cofty: they exist you know... I'm amazed he got that one right!

http://www.holocube.eu

266

There Was No First Human

by cofty in

this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

snare&racket

Atrapado, if you watch a child from birth to old age, at what minute did he become an adult? Could you specify even an hour, or a day? A month? Even a year? Tiny incremental changes that even over 70 years are not observable in real time can't be pinned down.

We evolved as human over hundreds of thousands of years, our ancestors going back millions. Just as there is no day where a baby suddenly becomes an adult, there is no point where BANG human ancestors became human. We still have their DNA and some traits to this day.

75% of people have a plamaris longus muscle in their hand and wrist, useful for holding onto branches. It simply does not work how you imagine it does, making your suggestion 100% impossible.

It isn't that we are pissing on your bonfire, I like how you have thought about it, but biology and evolution just dont work in such a clean cut, linear fashion as would be required by your suggestion. The reason we dont need fossils anymore in studying evolution,,is because all organisms have their ancestors coding in every cell, in the DNA. We have coding for tails, webbed hands, our organs even distribute as our ancestor fish did, making our anatomy innnefficiently placed. So from fish to human, sticking a flag in a point of time or set of genes doesn't help. Add to that we are still evolving right now, so even if we did what you said (though impossible) it would change instantly as we evolve at every generation, but all at a different rate and in wildly different ways, depending on our enviroment.

61

How did you tell your spouse you want out of the JW religion?

by leaving_quietly in

what did you imagine would happen?

did they react the way you expected?

how did you bring it up?.

snare&racket

Wow amazing stories, I was young and single and that was hard enough, much respect and thanks for sharing,

BU2B you are the reason I am replying, I really feel for you buddy. They have designed it into the belief system, it is scary to leave. I remember, it really, really is. All I can tell you is, that bibble you live in is false, and one day you step through it, you say enough is enough and......nothing.....the world didn't end. There are consequences from other peoole making judgments on you, but soon you realise, that is their weakness,,their blindness, their ignorance, their issue snd most importantly, thir conscience.

I have always said, I can understand staying for a loved one, but rsising a child in those lies is another matter. I think you are a very brave person for getting this far. Maybe some more research to concrete yourself into knowing you are in the right will help? I spent 5 years researching before I left and I found it easier because I simply knew they were lying, being lied to and ultimately wrong. It made hard desicions a lot easier.

I hooe we can be supportive and helpful for you buddy, keep us informed x

snare

21

People Think JW's are Bat-Shit Crazy

by AlphaMan in

had an interesting discussion at work today.

sat down at a table with 4 of my younger workers.

somehow it came up that one's mother was a jehovah witness, and one had dated a jw girl before.

snare&racket

it's so true! I was so embarassed when I heard what people thought of JW's!

All those CV's where I proudly mentioned my JW beliefs, a rubber stamp that I was honest, hard working, I had even been a full time preacher....

.....IN THE BIN....

69

Any Suggestions on what to say if elders ask why you stopped going in FS?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i was curious what might be some good things to say if i am questioned by the elduurs about my decline in fs.

anything too honest may get me a jc (although that would be for the best in the end..) the co visit is this week so they may be getting more agressive than usual.

snare&racket

just say your relationship with god and spirituality is a very personal thing and right now, you are considering much. Say that you are greatful for their interest but would rather not discuss it with them right now. If you feel the need, you will indeed ssk them for help.

219

An important difference between atheists and true believers

by Hortensia in

true believers, whether christian, muslim or whatever, want to convert you, they want you to believe what they do, and they're willing to go to extremes to make it happen.

atheists don't really care what you believe, and don't go out of their way to convert someone.. http://ow.ly/vn1jz an example of what believers in power do to suppress any difference in thought.

http://ow.ly/vraeo an example of why believers want to suppress different ideas (because they can't win in a fair fight, that's why).

snare&racket

We have SO MUCH in common here with each other. This is a big planet and JW's are a tiny minority, even smaller is the number of people that were churned out of that cult, in pain and suffering. We have all experienced suffering at the hands of a wierd cult most peoole know nothing at all about. Simply put, we only have each other to turn to, if looking for understanding for what we have gone through.

We are a unique bunch that very few understand, we have each other and I value that highly. I do love to come here and promote science and evidence, it is all the things I wish I had knowledge of, before I said "Yes" three times and got in that pool. I don't come to argue, debate or verbally masturbate, I come to vent a frustration at wasted time in a cult, I come & hope to help someone find information and evidence they are looking for. It is almost a letter to my younger self...

We are ex JW's, there is no need to then seperate into religious and atheist camps. There are FAR more religious topics here than atheist or scientific. But that is ok. There is some clashing of minds, from my perspective the same people arrive at threads on science and evolution, hijacking them with questions they don't want answers to. Atheists, yes we do shitty things too, I am so tempted to go to the thread on prayer and show the research that proves it makes people MORE unwell, it is a well known study... but 9/10 times, I don't do that , I leave them to discuss their beliefs.

But seriously, there is no need for us to be so confrontational. as for science and evidence, it is not OUR evidence or OUR science, we are not the people to debate or prove wrong. Take your opposing evidence collated via the scientific method, to the academic world. You will change the world if you are right. But until you do, respect that we are only here sharing knowledge not yet proved wrong and with evidence supporting it.

I for my part feel religious beliefs and scientific theories are not equal, but that does not mean I don't respect you or respect your right to a view. This is often misunderstood, because I dont respect the actual beliefs, says nothing for how I feel about the person.

I guess one ore big difference between atheists and religion, is that it just isn't personal with us. feel free to question me, challenge my beleifs all day. If the evidence changes tommorow, so will I. There is no personal attachment to what I believe, it is just based on evidence. I remember well, just how personal my religious beliefs were however and though I respect that it can be so personal to some, not believing I obviously don't respect the claims themselves. But I think it is often misintepreted as being personal disrespect. On a religious apostate forum, advocating science, it is a bit of a minefield for us...

Ahh man why can't we just hug again...

21

So I got called on today...

by Thumblina in

jw
friends

poor sod.

i felt quite sorry for him in the end.. for context, i was brought up as a jw since i was very young.

i left 6 years ago (faded) a little before turning 30. i was on here a lot around that time but under a different profile that's no longer active.. for the past 18 months, i'm back living in the territory of the congregation i grew up in.

snare&racket

Baltar, that made me giggle.....

What on earth was he typing into google for him to take a goosey at Scientology and JW's!

135

Shark Evolution

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://descrier.co.uk/science/fossil-discovery-shows-model-evolution-sharks/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=fossil-discovery-shows-model-evolution-sharks.

i used to consider sharks to be evidence for creation - and against evolution because it was stated that they are largely unchanged after millions of years ( hence, 'what evolution?')..

that's not the case, however.

snare&racket

woops... replied in wrong place.... see below your link :D x

rough summary...,you once again make assumptions about athiests, their beliefs, their views on sxience AND their motivations. All that just because they dont find reason to believe in Yaweh.

I don't know what you think we would convert people to? I would agree I have strong motives to help people deconvert if they choose to and that is the only reason I am here.

It is a cheap trick to once more try to paint non belief in your god as a belief in 'x' and then to cliam we want to evangelise and convert people to 'x'. But it is ridiculous, because 'x' in this case is evidence, specifically a lack of it for your claims. But I undertand why you do it and say it, it makes it look like a 50/50 choice, a matter of opinion, a religion based on god and worship of him, or a worship of dawkins and bowing down to science. But all this does is make you look a bit silly (really no offence) especially when 50% of scientists share your views... science is largely boring journals and papers. lol

219

An important difference between atheists and true believers

by Hortensia in

true believers, whether christian, muslim or whatever, want to convert you, they want you to believe what they do, and they're willing to go to extremes to make it happen.

atheists don't really care what you believe, and don't go out of their way to convert someone.. http://ow.ly/vn1jz an example of what believers in power do to suppress any difference in thought.

http://ow.ly/vraeo an example of why believers want to suppress different ideas (because they can't win in a fair fight, that's why).

snare&racket

"My description does, however, apply to what others recently on this board have called "fundamentalist atheists". I figured out what that meant, it's people who feel the need to save others by encouraging them to have faith in scientists."

Faith is assured expectation for things hoped for. Faith requires no evidence. Faith is dangerous and ill advised. I don't have faith in science! I test it and question it and only accept it on evidence. Why would anyone not do that? We are not evangelising science, that is like saying we evangelise gravity or atoms or even evolution. I do promote evidence and the best mechanism for retrievimg it..... the scientific method. But if people want to reject it,mI have no issue with that. I come here to talk to people who WANT to learn.

I must ask, how does faith apply to science? We don't hope that e=mc2 or that chemotherapy kills cancer cells or that evolution happens. Once more it is an attempt to make athism a religion by claiming we are out converting. Not only are you once more making claims about atheists, i.e. their views on science, having already admitted before saying the above that you shouldn't do that, but you are also wrong.

I would say without a doubt in my mind and in full honesty I 100% have an agenda to deconvert people, but not to follow me, or follow any belief system....but to deconvert & to take up critical appraisal and evidence and free thought...nothing more.

266

There Was No First Human

by cofty in

this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

snare&racket

There is no meeting in Brussells where all the scientists get together to discuss the problem of defining species, it is simply that there are sevral ways of seperating genetic prgression i.e. species.

The most common is the most obvious, its day one biology class....when an animal becomes so diverted from its parent species that it can no longer breed with it, it is a new species.

The issue?

In the most true evolutionary form, this is about genes being so different to the original species genes they can no longer procreate. In simple terms, the dna code is so different that they no longer can be read together. Like trying to mash a french book and a german book together.

But some biologists include mechanical restriction too, like a yorkshire terrier not being able to procreate with a greyhound, because it simply can't reach!

There is no actual debate however and no real use for a definition of a species. There is no gold standard or perfect example of a specific species, unless the environment stops changing, which it won't and on top of that all species would have to adopt the same enviroment, i.e. have the same influences to the genes.. then you could narrow it down, but this is hypothetical beyond possible. Environment includes predators, weather, grography, climate etc etc....so many variables on one planet, what is useful to a human here in the UK is not useful to a human in west Africa... black pigmentation and as said, sickle cell for malaria protection.

It isn't that science is in turmoil over the issue, Watchtower used to quotemine as if there was disagreements in science, in reality there is no right answer and the scientists differ depending on their objective. To think there can be a blueprint for a species is to not know or understand biology, specifically evolution. It is a constant variation in all directions, gene by gene, baby by baby... only the enviroment will dictate the most suitable, the fittest.