Posts by outsmartthesystem

46

My father's funeral

by jwfacts in

last week i attended my father's funeral in hobart.

i was the first time i have been in a kingdom hall in several years, and many years since i had attended the hall of my childhood, but felt like it was just yesterday.

the funeral talk was quite a departure from normal, so worth writing about.

outsmartthesystem

Thanks for sharing......and my condolences.

I was in a similar situation many years ago. Only......I was the uber witness telling one of my siblings to get their act together because "the time left is short". Oh the regret I have for being so naive.

17

VAT 4956/LBAT 1420 question

by outsmartthesystem in

i posted this as comment number one million in the nov 1 wt thread...but i'll post here too:.

i don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that vat 4956 is from the 37th year of nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588bc), and there is no argument that bm 38462 (lbat 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the jw response to the details of those eclipses?

bm 38462 (lbat 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on tebetu 13 of the 17th year of nebuchadnezzar.

outsmartthesystem

Doug

Perhaps I have not educated myself enough yet (or am too dumb to figure out the tables).....but the dates in the Five Millennium Canon don't seem to match up at all with Jonsson's dates. What am I missing?

17

VAT 4956/LBAT 1420 question

by outsmartthesystem in

i posted this as comment number one million in the nov 1 wt thread...but i'll post here too:.

i don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that vat 4956 is from the 37th year of nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588bc), and there is no argument that bm 38462 (lbat 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the jw response to the details of those eclipses?

bm 38462 (lbat 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on tebetu 13 of the 17th year of nebuchadnezzar.

outsmartthesystem

I've been out on a trip and will be tomorrow too. I'll check out those links sometime though. Thakns

17

VAT 4956/LBAT 1420 question

by outsmartthesystem in

i posted this as comment number one million in the nov 1 wt thread...but i'll post here too:.

i don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that vat 4956 is from the 37th year of nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588bc), and there is no argument that bm 38462 (lbat 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the jw response to the details of those eclipses?

bm 38462 (lbat 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on tebetu 13 of the 17th year of nebuchadnezzar.

outsmartthesystem

I posted this as comment number one million in the Nov 1 WT thread...but I'll post here too:

I don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that VAT 4956 is from the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588BC), and there is no argument that BM 38462 (LBAT 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the JW response to the details of those eclipses? BM 38462 (LBAT 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on Tebetu 13 of the 17th year of Nebuchadnezzar. The details say that it happened in the "morning watch". "1 beru, 5 degrees before sunrise. All of it was covered. It set eclipsed". It just happens to be that the 13th day of Tebetu would have fallen on January 8th of 587BC. With the Babylonians dividing the 24 hour day into 12 beru or 360 degrees (one beru = 2 hours and each degree = 4 minutes).......1 beru and 5 degrees would equal about 2 hours and 20 minutes. According to what was written on the tablet, this eclipse began about 2 hours and 20 minutes before sunrise. It was a total eclipse (hence "all of it was covered"). And it set eclipsed (the eclipse ended after moonset). My my....there just happened to be an eclipse on January 8, 587BC that began at 4:51 am (in the morning watch) just like the text says. Sunrise occurred at 7:12 am that day. The difference between 4:51 am and 7:12 am is 2 hours and 21 minutes.....just like the text says. The moon was FULLY eclipsed from 5:53 am until 7:38 am. Moonset occurred at 7:17am. So this means taht the eclipse was still TOTAL at moonset (hence, it "set while eclipsed).

This description in the text matches the eclipse that happened on January 8, 587BC perfectly. But if the 17th year of Nebuchadnezzar was 20 years prior...as the Watchtower claims....then this eclipse would have happened in December 608BC/January607BC. Does ANYONE know if there are any eclipse records from December 608BC/January 607BC? And if so....are they even close to matching the description given in the text?

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

outsmartthesystem

I don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that VAT 4956 is from the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588BC), and there is no argument that BM 38462 (LBAT 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the JW response to the details of those eclipses? BM 38462 (LBAT 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on Tebetu 13 of the 17th year of Nebuchadnezzar. The details say that it happened in the "morning watch". "1 beru, 5 degrees before sunrise. All of it was covered. It set eclipsed". It just happens to be that the 13th day of Tebetu would have fallen on January 8th of 587BC. With the Babylonians dividing the 24 hour day into 12 beru or 360 degrees (one beru = 2 hours and each degree = 4 minutes).......1 beru and 5 degrees would equal about 2 hours and 20 minutes. According to what was written on the tablet, this eclipse began about 2 hours and 20 minutes before sunrise. It was a total eclipse (hence "all of it was covered"). And it set eclipsed (the eclipse ended after moonset). My my....there just happened to be an eclipse on January 8, 587BC that began at 4:51 am (in the morning watch) just like the text says. Sunrise occurred at 7:12 am that day. The difference between 4:51 am and 7:12 am is 2 hours and 21 minutes.....just like the text says. The moon was FULLY eclipsed from 5:53 am until 7:38 am. Moonset occurred at 7:17am. So this means taht the eclipse was still TOTAL at moonset (hence, it "set while eclipsed).

This description in the text matches the eclipse that happened on January 8, 587BC perfectly. But if the 17th year of Nebuchadnezzar was 20 years prior...as the Watchtower claims....then this eclipse would have happened in December 608BC/January607BC. Does ANYONE know if there are any eclipse records from December 608BC/January 607BC? And if so....are they even close to matching the description given in the text?

21

Friends... life after JW

by ekruks in

jw
friends

have awakened to what fooo-king sh1t (sorry!

) i've been living in these last years.... well since i was born.... i am left if quite a weird state.

i have some weird friends.... jws.... i used to think they were normal.

outsmartthesystem

"Read "apostate" websites lots, and Crisis of Conscience, and didn't find that to be the demonic, promotion of moral depravity as claimed,"

That's exactly it. They TELL you that it is demonic promotion of moral depravity and filled with hateful lies. The only real reason anyone leaves the borg is that they've found out the real truth. And how do you find out the real truth? You have to associate with or read from apostate sources. But you've been told....therefore you believe that such sources are demonic so you stay away from them. All the while you think you are preserving your "spirituality" and your relationship with God.....but really you are depriving yourself of truth.

What are your hobbies? Do you live in a populated area? Odds are there is a "club" around you that likes the same things you like. Live in central Kentucky and like to cycle? Join the central Kentucky cycling association. They probably meet every weekend for a ride. Live in southern New Hampshire and like to fly kites? Join the nearest kite flying association. Contrary to witness beliefs...there are good people everywhere. You just need to know where to find them

20

Telling family / friends about researching JW religion

by dozy in

jw
friends

when a jw husband of a friend of mine found out that she had been researching online about jehovah's witnesses , he described it as a "breach of trust" and a legitimate reason to break up the marriage (or at least separate , citing the wtbts "spiritual danger clause").. thankfully my own wife has been more understanding but is this kind of reaction common?

and is it in some way justified on the basis that snooping around online , talking to others on messageboards , not from day one telling one's mate etc is perhaps dishonest?

.

outsmartthesystem

Sounds a bit like my situation. Although my wife insists that there is NOTHING (aside from gross infidelity) that should break up a marriage. She actually encouraged me to "research" my doubts. She truly thought I'd research and then come to my senses that the borg is right. Now that my research has proven the opposite....she desperately wants me to talk to the elders "because they're there to help and they'll understand". This is where I've drawn the line. I know that even if I don't get the boot.....the elders will make sure to tell her what spiritual danger she is in. If she hears enough of that whispered in her ear....she may leave. But she sees my neglecting to talk to the elders as proof that I am the one that is wrong....I just don't want to admit it. (that I am afraid to talk to them because they'll make me see that they're right)

9

Expectations of the New System: Classic example of JW stupidity

by roxanesophia in

though i've stopped studying and have no interest anymore in the religion, bits of conversation with jw's keep coming back to me to confirm why that was the best decision.

like this particularly idiotic belief:.

since the jw's believe the faithful men of bible stories will be resurrected into "the new system" , i remember a discussion about 'how awesome it's going to be to meet job" or "you can marry one of job's sons!

outsmartthesystem

You're thinking of the details too much! THe more simple minded they make you....the more your imagination can run wild. It truly is sad to look back at how naive I was too

10

Visa, Mastercard

by stillin in

the recent post from barbara anderson prompted this dialogue between my wife and myself on the way home from the meeting this morning:.

stillin: i heard that some of the churches actually are swiping your credit card so that you can make your contribution that way.. stillin's very-stillin wife: i'm not at all surprised.

how much lower can they go?.

outsmartthesystem

Stillin - Your wife may be like my wife however. Even though you've baited her in....when the announcement is made she will proudly accept it as being a "gift from Jehovah that makes the lives of those processing donations in Bethel easier". She will say that since they are now accepting credit cards, Jehovah must have given his approval. But obviously those in "Babylon the Great" are still wrong for doing this......as it is clear that THEY are a snare and a racket.

22

Does 2 John 10-11 encourage shunning ex JW's?

by TimothyT in

i was reading john's second letter before in my nlt bible and i came accross the scriptures used to back up the act of shunning former jw's.

in my bible it reads totaly contrary to the way the jw's say, so i decided to get out the old nwt bible which gives exactly the same ideas.

here are some of my thoughts:.

outsmartthesystem

Cantleave nailed it. I forget the article now....but I recall reading that anyone that stops being a witness is like an apostate. "The word apostasy comes from a Greek word that literally means 'a standing away from', but has the sense of desertion, abandonment or rebellion....abandonment of right moral standards.....willfully abandoning the Christian Congregation". And since the JWs are the only ones that have ever been correct in biblical teachings.....and you disagree.....you have thus proven that you have abandoned the congregation.....thus you've abandoned Christ.

I liken it to group of animal rights activists accepting donations to preserve the habitat of the Angolan Speckled Moth. Any money you donate goes to preserve the habitat. Therefore anyone NOT donating is showing that they don't care about its habitat nor that of any other animal or person. A lack of care for habitat/environmental causes proves that this person approves of ecosystem destruction and thereby positions himself as a "ruiner of the earth" (Rev 11:18) That is worthy of disfellowshipment in my book!

Furthermore, I am yet to read an article by the society that explains fully why it is ok to talk to your athiest neighbor (who publicly denies the Christ)....but not your disfellowshipped son. (who was DFd for disagreeing with a teaching) James' words are somehow to apply only to former JWs?