Posts by outsmartthesystem

7

What would you say in reply?

by outsmartthesystem in

i am in a discussion about jeremiah the 25th chapter.

(and jehovah "calling to account against the king of babylon and against that nation") my argument is very basic.

how did god call to account against the king of babylon (thus supposedly ending the 70 years of desolation) in 537bc.....2 years after babylon fell?.

I am in a discussion about Jeremiah the 25th Chapter. (and Jehovah "calling to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation") My argument is very basic. How did God call to account against the King of Babylon (thus supposedly ending the 70 years of desolation) in 537BC.....2 years after Babylon fell?

The response I got: "Cyrus overthrew the Babylonian King 2 years prior, therefore he was ACTING as the Babylonian king 2 years later when the Jews were released and thus the prophesy held true. Jehovah's "calling to account" was therefore against Cyrus who was now king of the Babylonians in 537BC"

Stretched reasoning like this really irritates me....yet it is a staple of Jehovah's Witnesses. How would you respond?

78

My Sister Died This Morning After Refusing Blood On Four Occasions.

by still wondering in

outsmartthesystem

I am so sorry.

Another victim of the Watchtower society.

47

Things that made you cringe at "the meetings"

by i_drank_the_wine in

jw
friends

i always cringed so hard when a "brother" or "sister" would make some overly heartfelt comment about jehovah-something, usually related to a personal experience of theirs, and get all teared up and/or start crying.. once this fringe dude that's been df'd twice now was giving a talk and kept having these long awkward pauses where he looked like he was real stressed out, then he would start up again, stutter, slip up, and repeat the process until he looked down and went "i, i just can't do this" and walked off the stage and left the hall.. it also made my spchincter pucker when a young person would give some super devotional comment on how much they love big j and whatnot, which would make the congregation all smile in their hearts and wag their heads in approval..

outsmartthesystem

Mr Freeze...your comment reminds me of a good one.

We had just finished a paragraph that was talking about how to answer at the KH. The first comment should be concise thus leaving an opportunity for others to expound. This gets many people involved and also shows love by not selfishly hogging the whole paragraph, right? So this elder's wife raises her hand and comments (1st comment) top to bottom.....repeating the whole damn paragraph on what we aren't supposed to do when answering. I turned around and stared at her.

47

Things that made you cringe at "the meetings"

by i_drank_the_wine in

jw
friends

i always cringed so hard when a "brother" or "sister" would make some overly heartfelt comment about jehovah-something, usually related to a personal experience of theirs, and get all teared up and/or start crying.. once this fringe dude that's been df'd twice now was giving a talk and kept having these long awkward pauses where he looked like he was real stressed out, then he would start up again, stutter, slip up, and repeat the process until he looked down and went "i, i just can't do this" and walked off the stage and left the hall.. it also made my spchincter pucker when a young person would give some super devotional comment on how much they love big j and whatnot, which would make the congregation all smile in their hearts and wag their heads in approval..

outsmartthesystem

I cringe just knowing that the Kingdom Halls are filled with innocent little children that have no idea their minds are being controlled

I would cringe whenever the Watchtower magazine would call Jehovah the Great "(add secular title here"). I.E. - The Great Physician. The Great Potter. The Great Fisherman. The Great Freakin tapdancer or whatever the hell the next one will be.

It would also make me cringe to hear the brothers say that those raised as witnesses are truly the most well educated people on the earth. Seriously? We had brothers reading the watchtower than CAN'T frickin read. We had brothers giving talks that were filled with double negatives like "ain't never gonna...." and "that don't mean nothin". We had home schooled children that somehow "graduated" high school at the age of 16.....yet couldn't show you where Israel was on a map. But remember.....this is the BEST education in the WORLD.

53

Did YOU Actually Believe That You Would Never Die?

by minimus in

jw
friends

even though i was raised a witness, i was never convinced that the end would be in 1975 or even in my lifetime..

outsmartthesystem

Yes. I was a kid. I trusted my parents. Why wouldn't I trust them? When I was able to read....I read all about the society's take on matters. I was even more convinced. When I was a teenager.....I had some doubts but was fully convinced that reading anything negative about the society would result in my eternal death so I was scared to take the plunge. As I got older....I started thinking for myself a little more. I went to college. I learned critical thinking skills. I surrounded myself with people (good people) that also used critical thinking to their advantage. And soon enough...I realized that everything I had been taught was a farce. And I also realized why the society demonizes college, education and independent thinking.

49

told my parents to never ever tell me they love me again....

by oompa in

jw
friends

...i told them in a very serious sitdown in their living room....said..."because if you cant show it then it does not count...that is not real love no matter who tells you it is....because it is how it makes me feel that determines if it is love....not if you just say it...and me and my sons do not feel that love at all now"....and i stayed calm and talked slowly and barely shed a tear as i held them back...and i had asked them to not say a word but just listen...dad said they would as long as it was not about religion as i knew he would.

this was two of the worst days of my life in a row..i told them the pain me and my boys feel from their shunning is worse than if they had died...that then i could grieve naturally and move on because that is normal....grief helps you cope...my grief is different because they choose to act like i am dead and normal grief does not seem to work on that.

i shared an epiphany with them i had about mens rules vs gods great idea of dna (but no i am not sure about a god anymore)it went kinda like this:.

outsmartthesystem

Wow, Oompa. VERY powerful words.

16

Help me to answer a few questions for a current JW?

by stillstuckcruz in

i'm talking to this girl right now who is technically still a witness.

she doenst go to the meetings anymore but not because she does not feel its the truth.

her parents are no longer witnesses and i want to get her to see the truth about the "truth" before she decides to go back in.

outsmartthesystem

"What other group do you know that goes preaching from door to door on the same scale as JW's? The bibe says to preach to every land(bla bla bla). Jehovahs Witnesses are the only group doing that on such a scale. this proves they are the truth."

Cut and paste chapter 7 of In Search of Christian Freedom and perhaps she'll see that the New World Translation agrees with the JW METHOD of preaching only because of bias in its renderings.

"Why are all the annointed ONLY in the JW religion? (I used to wonder the same thing until I did research)"

Simply put....the anointed aren't only in the JW religion. Although that is what they would have you think. True Christians believe the Greek scriptures were written to ALL....not just 144,000 individuals. Therefore all Christians are anointed.

Her thinking that there are only "anointed" in the JW religion comes down to an entrenched JW belief that there are 2 classes. Those that will go to heaven and those that will live on earth. Until she understands that the bible does not promise a resurrection to a paradise earth, this question will not be able to be answered sufficiently.

"Jehovah want's people to gain accurate knowlege right? So where do they gain this knowledge if they are not JW's?"

They gain it by studying God's word. It is a JW teaching, but not a bible truth, that you can only come to an accurate knowledge THROUGH THEM. If JWs possess the only accurate knowledge.....then certainly their history will prove it. I would then investigate what the GB's claim for authority is (Matthew 24:45-47) and how it relates to Jesus supposedly selecting them back in 1919 BASED ON THEIR ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE/TEACHINGS.

"Jehovah wants his people to be united right? So why should we not disfellowship those who have a difference of opinion? That only creates disuniuty! JW's are the only people who are entirely united on the Earth. Worldly churches can even agree on their own teachings."

There is a difference between unity and uniformity. JWs are not united in that they do independent study of the Bible...God's spirit directs them....and they all come to the same conclusion. Rather theyare uniform in that they do as they are told....much like an army. Consider - If you refused to believe in 1986 that the generation that saw the events of 1914 unfold would see the "end of this system of things" and you told others of your disbelief....you would be DFd, right? Even though you would have later been proven to be correct. If they can disfellowship you for refusing to be united in a WRONG teaching.....then is this really being directed by God?

15

I have a question, please re Matthew 24:45

by N.drew in

one of the most interesting aspect of bible i have found is pronouns.. all i know about foreign language i get off the internet.

so my question, for them who know, is the "who" at matthew 24:45,. does it imply "which one?

" or does it tilt toward "describe".. in other words does it mean, identify, or does it mean, getting a profile.. in english we can say "who" is that person in the crowd?.

outsmartthesystem

"Are you all going to ignore me again and again and again?

Cry me a river."

You would likely get more responses if your posts were a little more coherent, not so pushy and a little less combative. Personally, I find your style of writing to be difficult to read. Like you did a line of cocain and then went straight to your keyboard. This isn't meant to aggravate you.....it's just how I happen to feel after having read dozens of your posts.

Then again...perhaps I have difficulty with your posts due to my own incompetance.

19

JW's - Hard to admit that much of life was a waste

by xelder in

from my observations, i think many (especially older) jw's hold through the stupid doctrinal changes because they can't admit the alternative.. i had wished the jw kingdom hope was true, i needed it to be true.

i'm 5th generation and my parents, grandparents, great grand.....ect needed it to be true.

i have watched many "faithful" relatives hang on and die disappointed.

outsmartthesystem

I've noticed myself a subtle change that the GB is undoubtedly directing. While still telling the R & F that the end is right around the corner......they've wised up a bit. Now they make sure to tell the R & F that they don't know the day or hour. In fact, the overlapping generations explanation allows them to effectively say "it could be tomorrow.....but it could be 50 years from now....we don't know". ("but we would definitely lean closer to tomorrow than 50 years from now). I've heard in several talks now, stress being put on the whole "stay faithful to the organization" idea. I.E. - We are no longer guaranteeing the end within your lifetime.....but remain faithful and you'll be resurrected in a paradise earth.

I truly believe they are very subtley getting more and more people to focus on the hope that they will be in the "new system" someday....instead of the hope that they will live through "the end" and then see the new system.

When I was a kid, I dreamed of making it through the "end" which was a "promise" from God that had to occur before 1995. Once I made it...I could spend all eternity playing with lions. But 20 years from now, little kids will still be dreaming of playing with lions someday.....but also accepting of the fact that they will probably die in this old system.....only to be resurrected to paradise in the blink of an eye!

So while still dangling the "any minute now' carrot.......they are also, in a subtle way, conditioning the rank and file to accept it and not be bummed out if the end never comes during their lifetimes.

30

Post your favorite JW Non-words here!

by outsmartthesystem in

jw
friends

the wt study was always my favorite meeting as i could sit back and soak up all the unintelligent comments made by high school dropout pioneers or home learned children.

my favorite is when i would hear people make up their own words.

misunderestimate.

outsmartthesystem

""fortunate" instead of lucky ... give me a f*ing break!"

Agreed! Once, as a child, I got reprimanded by an elder's wife for questioning why it was ok to use the word fortunate but not lucky since they mean the same thing. She explained that the meanings of the words don't matter. What matters is what is "accepted and approved" speech within Jehovah's holy organization. Since "fortune", although meaning the same thing as "luck" carriies a different connotation within the walls of the KH.....THAT makes using the word ok. Questioning anything that was deemed acceptable by teh organization thus showed that I had the makings of an independent attitude!