Posts by outsmartthesystem

6

Looking for a suggestion.....

by outsmartthesystem in

jw
friends

many of you know my plight and have made some good suggestions.

you know that my wife is still very much in the borg.....and that situation is perpetually exacerbated by her mettling father who she is very much attached to.

my only hope is to reach my kids.

Many of you know my plight and have made some good suggestions. You know that my wife is still very much in the borg.....and that situation is perpetually exacerbated by her mettling father who she is very much attached to. My only hope is to reach my kids. They are both under 6 years old. I've heard many of you suggest a book called "Teach Your Children How To Think"......but those that have suggested it seem to think it is more geared toward older children (10+). Is there any book out there that you can study with younger kids (i.e. 4-9) that will help instill critical thinking skills?

My fear is that I won't start early enough with something they can handle/comprehend. And by the time I do......the Watchtower mind control tactics will have already been at work for a number of years.

Suggestions please?

52

now wat??

by xtreemlyconfused17 in

jw
friends

aloha everyone...................please do help if u can.

hope u dont get bored reading this quite long text

i'l soon be 17, i'm an unbaptized publisher, but innactive (havent gone door to door)for more than a year, but still very strict with our organisation's standards (lyk no teenage dating).

outsmartthesystem

First .....welcome.

Second......I know it is overwhelming but try to relax. You don't have to discover the God's honest truth about everything overnight. You don't have to learn how or where to worship God overnight. These things take time. Do as much research as you possibly can on the REAL history of JWs. Free your mind from the enslavement to Watchtower thinking. Then and only then will your mind be truly clear. That is when you can read the bible for what it truly says (without Watchtower goggles on)

Third - Do your best to ignore DJEggnog. If you think you can trust anything he tells you.....all you need to do is do a search of his past comments on a number of different threads. His logic (or lackthereof) is messed up. He and another poster (Mankkeli) are Watchtower Society nut huggers. They think they give a good "witness" with their reasonings and refutations.....but like I said.....all you need to do is review some of their older posts and you'll see how pathetic they are.

24

Choices you have to make after you learn the "truth"

by stuckinamovement in

jw
friends

choices.

by my nature i am not a negative person.

should i live my life as a hypocritical, tortured pretender, or stand up for what is right and lose my reputation, friends and family?

outsmartthesystem

I feel for you bro. I am in the EXACT same boat.

If you leave quietly and fade.....why would you be absolutely shunned? Yes....some will ignore you but it isn't as if your DF'd. I would imagine that SOME of your friends and family would still talk to you, no?

It is my opinion that you have 3 options:

1) keep towing the line

2) Fade and just keep deflecting and probing questions so you remain "inactive" as opposed to DF'd

3) DA yourself

1 is not an option for a man with personal dignity. Nor is 3 if you have any hope of maintaining your immediate family. 2 is what I am doing now. Hopefully some day I will get through to my wife. If that happens.....I will quickly do number 3.

15

Atheiests....Did you enjoy the book In Search of Christian Freedom?

by Diest in

jw
friends

i was not in the mood to be a christian, even before reading coc.

do you think there is a benifit to reading iscf?

did it solve much about the jws in your mind?.

outsmartthesystem

At the very least, Ray debunks the blood doctrine and the door to door ministry doctrine very well and makes it easy to understand ........but more than that....he makes it easy to explain to others.

206

i am a regular pioneer in my cong reading crisis of conscience.here goes...

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

jw
friends

i'm on page 90 right now...the info is definitely new and gives me a totally diff view as to how i used to think of faithful and discreet slave.

i was thoroughly disgusted with the way the brothers handled the oral sex and leadership problem and the insight on the scriptures book...... still have alot of questions though.

outsmartthesystem

ISOCF is a wonderful book too. The logic is so simple yet so brilliant.

In regard to the MS having no idea about the different dates.....don't be surprised. Most witnesses and I stress MOST.....are completely in the dark. Many believe what they are told to believe without knowing why. Others "know" that Christ took kingdom power in 1914 and 1919 was the year that Christ inspected and selected the Witnesses as his Faithful Slave.....but they can't explain or prove anything. The society does not care if you tow the line with a deep understanding of their past or with no understanding whatsoever as long as you tow the line.

When I first started doing my research I had no idea about 1925 or Beth Sarim. NO clue!

206

i am a regular pioneer in my cong reading crisis of conscience.here goes...

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

jw
friends

i'm on page 90 right now...the info is definitely new and gives me a totally diff view as to how i used to think of faithful and discreet slave.

i was thoroughly disgusted with the way the brothers handled the oral sex and leadership problem and the insight on the scriptures book...... still have alot of questions though.

outsmartthesystem

i've noticed that alot of the comments have nothing to do with God.....Have u became bitter? - Some people have. Some haven't. It is all in how you deal with knowing that you've wasted many years of your life. I know the society paints all former witnesses as bitter and full of hatred. That alone probably makes you wonder "oh my god....the society was right! Former witnesses seem to be bitter! Perhaps the society is correct after all!" That is a common fallacy. Think about it. How would MOST people react after learning that something they dedicated decades of their life to turned out to be a fraud? There is bound to be some sort of agitation there. Do some research on Enron Corp. There were people that worked at that company for a LONG time. All of their life savings were invested in corporate stock. Then it was found out that Enron was a fraud and it crumbled. Its stock was worth nothing. How do you think those people whose life savings were worth nothing reacted? They were undoubtedly hurt and angry at that corporation. Like I said....it is a natural feeling that happens whenever somebody realizes a painful truth about something they once held dear. Don't let governing body trick you into thinking they have some sort of divine backing simply because they can quasi predict the actions/reactions of "apostates". The leaders of the Mormon church can accurately predict that their former members will be relatively bitter too. That doesn't make them directed by God does it?

do u all still believe in God? - Kind of sort of. At this point I have trouble believing that everything got here by chance.....but I have determined to never again let anyone tell me what I can and cannot research. I am currently researching evolution. But that doesn't mean that I DON'T believe in God. Like everyone said....it is a LONG process (leaving the WT)

How do u worship Him if at all? - Read the Christian Greek scriptures in a bible other than the NWT. You CAN believe in and worship God without a supporting organization.

Have u found Jehovah's true followers if not witnesses? - Why do you believe that there can only be one GROUP of people that are God's true followers?

Do u feel at peace with God? - That's part of the process

Are u happy? - Not as happy as I could be. But that is because I have a wife that is still very much a witness. And whenever I bring up yet another JW belief that doesn't make sense of that she can't reason on.....she simply says she doesn't want to talk about it. She would rather maintain her cherished belief system than know the truth. And my children are caught in the middle. So no...I am not as happy as I'd like to be. But everyone has different personality types. For me......I could do one of two things. I could pretend that I DON'T know the truth about the organization....go back to meetings....and live a lie. Or I can embrace the fact that witnesses DON'T have the truth and face whatever consequences come from my search for FINDING THE REAL TRUTH. Living a lie isn't an option for me. I want to know the truth regardless of whatever consequences from from distancing myself from the cult of JWs.

Do u have any doubt that u made the right decision? - In spite of what I wrote above.....no. If you haven't done so already....watch the Matrix. Finding out the truth is more important that living a relatively peaceful lie within the confines of the organization.

If this is not the truth then why are some of u still 'fading'? why condone untruth? Would God be happy if this isn't the truth and yet u still atempt to condone and fade? - Good question....and the answer lies in the disfellowshipping policy that exists within the organization. Think about it this way. What happens if I officially disassociate myself? My daughters can no longer have "witness" friends over to play. If we happen to see another witness family at the local pool....the kids can play....but we can't sit with them because of me. So my family now has to choose whether to sit with their friends or sit with me. If my kids have a ballet recital.....her "friends" and family may not come because I will be there. So now I have to choose. Do I go or do I stay so her friends can go? What happens when my daughter gets older? What if she gets baptized into the cult....and takes its disfellowshipping doctrine VERY SERIOUSLY? What happens when she tells me she can no longer speak to me because of that? And then she has children which makes me a grandfather....but I am never allowed to see my precious grandbabies because I am disfellowshipped. Etc. The disfellowshipping doctrine is one of strict control and it devastates families. THAT is why we fade. None of us are condoning anything. Fading is the only way to salvage a relationship with your family. Believe me. If I could get my wife and kids out of the organization I WOULD disassociate and I would strongly advocate against cults and cult practices.

206

i am a regular pioneer in my cong reading crisis of conscience.here goes...

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

jw
friends

i'm on page 90 right now...the info is definitely new and gives me a totally diff view as to how i used to think of faithful and discreet slave.

i was thoroughly disgusted with the way the brothers handled the oral sex and leadership problem and the insight on the scriptures book...... still have alot of questions though.

outsmartthesystem

"i'm so scared.... "

This is normal! When I first read this book...I did so secretly. I was scared I might be caught. Even after I'd finished a chapter and put the book away....I'd be jittery....trying to focus on keeping my cool so that no one asks me why I am acting weird. My heart would pound. All of this....because the society had spent nearly 30 years convincing me that reading such material would ruin my life, destroy my relationship with God and guarantee my eternal destruction. Keep reading. And when you finish....read "Combating Cult Mind Control" or "Releasing the Bonds". You'll better understand that such a teaching is a basic for cults (including the society) to keep their "flock" in line.

It is a long process (breaking the chains of the society). you'll have moments in the future where you'll suddenly panic and wonder "Oh my God....I know I have all this evidence proving that they are nothing but a mind controlling cult......but....what if they are right? Have I ruined my eternal life?" And then you'll do more research and be even more convinced that the society is a cult. The point being.....there will be times when you second guess. It is part of the process of breaking away

34

Need Advice About Letter to the IRS to Revoke the WTBTS' Tax Exempt Status

by ABibleStudent in

please review my letter to the irs commissioner to establish a process for revoking the tax exempt status of dangerous cults and write comments about how to improve it.. rough draft of letter.

mr. douglas h. shulman .

commissioner.

outsmartthesystem

Nice letter....but the society can claim "advancement of religion" and use so many other loopholes. Not to mention.....they have a lot of $. There is no doubt in my mind that they could make $ure that certain law makers agree to keep them as a tax exempt non profit organization

26

Can someone please help me?

by ruderedhead in

jw
friends

hello, i'm new to posting here, although i have been reading and gaining insight for quite a while.

thank you to all of you.. i wrote a letter of disassociation this week, and sent it to the local kh.

i have been faded for a number of years, and after much research, know that the witnesses do not have the truth.

outsmartthesystem

She was unaware,but justified it, and said she would look it up. I suggested she go to a site other than the WT web site. She kept telling me I was looking at apostate literature. - Ask her why it should matter who wrote the material. What should matter is whether or not it is true. Ask her questions that will force her to do research. If you ask probing questions.....the research she does in society based literature won't be enough. Then she will have to decide as to whether or not she should happily let your questions go unanswered so as to maintain her faith in her organization......or dig to the bottom and get the truth.

There were other things I tried to point out, but she had a response, sometimes very poor, to them. - Witnesses always have a response. Usually they respond with some sort of logical fallacy. The fallacy works on those that are still controlled by Watchtower thinking. Example - when I started fading years ago....I brought up that it is ridiculous that men can't wear beards. The person I told that to responded by showing me a Watchtower article that equated those that wished to wear a beard with being selfish/hard-headed and childishly wanting to have one's own way. At that time.....I said to myself "wow....maybe I AM being childish. I mean.....do I really NEED a beard?" Now....years later....it hits me! I accepted such an answer from the Watchtower because I was still under their control. But now that I look back at it....I can plainly see that the answer provided by the Watchtower was not an answer at all! It was nothing more than an ad hominem attack designed to turn the argument on the one asking the question. All that article did was make personal insults and accusations against those that want to wear a beard. NEVER did the article actually address the BIBILICAL reason for such a prohibition. At that time......this fallacy worked on me because I hadn't learned how to critically analyze ANYTHING that came from the society.

37

I think a lot of older (maybe younger ones) JW's are going to attempt/commit suicide....(READ)

by Joliette in

jw
friends

i've been in lurkmode lately, but with the news that i heard about don cornelius dying, it had me thinking...as this world goes on, and people are coping with this world...i think a lot jw's are going to realize that the end of the world isnt coming...there gonna become more despert, the realities of having to work, pay off debts, etc.

a lot of jw's are going to realize that no magical sky daddy is come and 'take away there problems' and i think the more that they start to realize this, they get older, and there gonna start hating the reality that they have to face.

i had a good friend who's father-in- law (who was a ministrial servant) who had bipolar disorder, killed himself in his car back in 2007. it was sad.

outsmartthesystem

It is amazing.....the lessons that a witness DOESN'T learn over time. A friend of mine (well......more of a former friend since I don't go to the KH anymore) and I were talking one day. We got to discussing the poor plight of a certain man in our congregation that was now 75 years old and still cleaning floors for a living because he never saved for retirement. And he never saved any $ because he thought the "end" was coming decades ago. Then the conversation turned toward us today. I mentioned my 401k and my personal IRA. My friend looked dumbfounded. He couldn't believe I had TWO. I then asked him about his retirement fund and he smiled and said "the company contributes $ into it for me". I said "ok....but how much do they contribute?" He said "2 percent". I did the math with a retirement calculator and showed him that 2% compounded over the next 30 years simply won't be enough. He got a look of irritation on his face and said "the end is going to be here WAY before that!"

I wanted to choke him. Here we were lamenting the economic disaster that faced this 75 year old man because he didn't plan for retirement. This man's FAITH prevented him from planning for his future. yet....my friend was making the EXACT SAME MISTAKE!

I told him "But that's the same reasoning so and so had....and NOW look at him!"

All my friend said in return was "yeah but that was a long time ago. We are SO much closer to the end now"

Sad. It really is