outsmartthesystem

Joined

• started 83 topics
• posted 1,189 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by outsmartthesystem

• 
  66

  Hello. I am new here :)

  by StevenJB in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello all.. my name is dteve and i live in the uk.

  i hope i can make genuine friends here and not pretend friends.....like that among jw's.. i left, went back, and have left again, but this time it is for good.

  so i tried to work things out, but she carried on.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  We will be your friends forever........SO LONG AS YOU NEVER LEAVE OUR ORGANIZATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Just kidding. Welcome!
• 
  16

  I Need help with questions to ask during family study to help my wife wake up

  by BU2B in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  lately when we have our family study we have been just reading the bible alone, without wt spin.

  however i really need to start asking her good questions that wont set off her apostadar.

  so i ask you fine folks; what are some questions or ways i can use the family study to help her think and start using her own mind on key ideas.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  "Ask if SHE knows the new understanding. Tell her you are CONFUSED about this. How can a baby, the parents, the grand-parents, and the great-grand-parents (100 years) all be "THE generation" that will not pass away?? How would she explain that to someone at the door? At work?

  Ask if SHE knows that this is the 3rd (I think) adjustment since 1995 (and THAT was a big one too). When else in Bible history did Jehovah continue to give His people false information again and again and again? When did Jehovah ever "test" or "sift" His people using lies or misinformation from His prophets (or his "channel" of communication)?

  Of course, it would be best if these things are not YOUR questions or concerns. They should come from someone at work/school; or an RV; or Bible Study; or very close friend who has doubts (and has sworn you to confidentiality). Or, someone in service could hand you a print out from jwfacts.com. You do NOT want her going to the Elders to seek help for you."

  These are good.....but as DOC said......you MUST present them as though they were asked of YOU by a return visit or workmate or something. If she senses you have doubts she may do like my wife did and immediatlely and forever sever any and all trust that exists between you two.

  Another one you could consider is ........who is your mediator? The scriptures are very plain. Yet you can find several Watchtower magazines on the CD ROM that say that Jesus is ONLY mediator for the anointed. Nowhere do they explain who the mediator is for the rest of the sheep. So......who is it.....and show me the scripture that backs it up.
• 
  37

  A conversation about universal sovereignty

  by outsmartthesystem in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "well osts, satan, through adam challenged god's right to rule......so god had to let it play out to show that he really should be the one ruling mankind.

  both the angels and humans needed to see this.

  me - why couldn't god have allowed adam's children to remain perfect?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  "Well OSTS, Satan, through Adam challenged God's right to rule......so God had to let it play out to show that He really SHOULD be the one ruling mankind. Both the angels and humans needed to see this. "

  Me - Why couldn't God have allowed Adam's children to remain perfect? That way other humans AND the angels could both watch Adam grow old and die.....thus learning the lesson. Besides.....this would have also prevented God from punishing generation after generation of innocent humans for one man's sin.

  "Well OSTS.....you see......Adam's children weren't born until AFTER Adam had sinned.....therefore sin was inherited and it spread to all future generations."

  Me - But God can fix that in the future.....in the new system, right?

  "Yes OSTS! Exactly"

  Me - So.....why didn't he just do as I suggested.....and allow Adam's children to remain perfect. I mean if he can make imperfect people perfect in the future.....why couldn't he do it back then?

  "Well OSTS......it is just like a dented baking pan. Once the pan has a dent.....all future loaves baked in that pan will contain the same error. "

  Me - Yeah....I get that.......But "with God all things are possible", right? Are you telling me God couldn't figure out how to NOT make sin pass from ONE man to ONE child but in the future he is going to figure out how to do that with MILLIONS of people? He couldn't figure out how to remove that dent back then......but in the future he will be able to remove the dent?

  "Well OSTS.....it is certainly not a matter of Jehovah not being able to figure it out. Obviously He knows all. That just isn't what His plan was. His plan is to fix the dent in the new system. "

  Me - So although He could have fixed the dent thousands of years ago.....thus sparing billions of lives and agony and pain etc etc.......while still showing that He is truly the universal sovereign by allowing Adam and ONLY Adam to grow old and die.......he chose not to? He chose to punish future innocent generations of people? Doesn't that seem a bit harsh?

  "Well OSTS......I can see you are not being reasonable. It is a very simple concept and you refuse to get it. I wouldn't question Jehovah if I were you. "

  A cloud of dust then quickly rose into the air as he plunged his cranium into the sand.
• 
  12

  BF vented on "apostate" websites

  by FingersCrossed in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hmmm.... how many of you, in the process of waking up, got really angry with websites like jwfacts.com etc.. etc... even calling them slanders etc?

  i think all of you are doing a great job, keep it on guys!.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  1. This is the best religion out there, all of the religions are messed up but we are the least of the evil.

  Use their own literature against them. They are famous for saying things like "if you knew the water you were about to drink was 90% clean and just 10% poison.....would you drink it anyway? Of course not. So why would you partake of anything Christendom has to offer just because "most" of it was "clean"? The same applies to JWs. Truth is truth. Saying we are the least of the evils is still not something to be proud of. That is like saying "yeah I beat my wife sometimes......but nowhere NEAR as bad as her last husband!!!!! Yay ME!"

  2. I was taught honesty, integrity and a willingness to die for the Truth.

  Agreed. The TRUTH. Jesus said to worship in spirit and TRUTH. If I can find doctrinal flip flops, suppressed information and outright lies within the very pages of the literature......then somebody needs to so some splainin. TRUTH should not change and it should NEVER EVER need to be covered up.

  3. We have the most loyal group of loving brothers and sisters, no other religion has such a loving group of people who will stick with you!

  The loyalty is to an organization. Your "loving" brothers and sisters only stick with you so long as you remain in the organization. Try fading away from the organization and see how many of your "loving" brothers and sisters are still loyal to you.

  4. The friends would give their shirts off their backs if you needed help, their love is real, unlike Christendom.

  See number 3. The "friends" will give the shirts off their backs..........so long as YOU remain loyal to the ORGANIZATION. Again.....try telling them that you believe differently and see how many shirts you get. That is not real love. That is the epitome of CONDITIONAL love.

  5. Jehovah Witnesses are the only religion who follow's the Bible 100 percent, no other religion is like ours.

  No. JWs follow the organization 100%. As the organization's views on the scriptures change.....so do the individual JWs. And you are not following the bible 100%. You are following a group of mens' interpretation of scripture. Interpretations that have, can and will change. Oh......and we can show you a plethora of rules and regulations that are NOT found in the bible. For instance......nowhere does the bible say you cannot celebrate your birthday......yet doing so is a DFing offense. If the bible does not prohibit it.....then aren't those that enforce such a rule in violation of 1 Cor 4:6? How is creating laws that go beyond the bible any different than what the Pharisees did?

  6. No other religion get's the highest degree of quality Bible education, everyone else is stupid with the Bible.

  In comparison to what? The line of reasoning is flawed. You are holding your existing beliefs as the standard for quality bible education. Much of the bible is open to interpretation. It isn't a matter of all the angles of a triangle adding up to 180 degrees. Besides.....your bible is quite different from the American Standard and NiV. Isn't it strange that most of the places where you bible is different just happens to be areas that set your beliefs apart? Could that be an eisegesis approach to translation? Oh.....and.....who translated your bible? What were their credentials?

  7. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only religion who are not willing to go to war, all other religons are blood thirsty, ready to kill at a moments notice.

  That isn't true. I can show you many other religions that will not take up arms. Even then......does a JW's refusal to take up arms give any evidence that Jesus selected your leaders as his one and only channel to dispense truth back in 1919? Let's look at what was being taught back in 1919 by your leaders since that is what Jesus approved.
• 
  18

  Why you CAN'T make sense of it.

  by baltar447 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  going through an dealing with a mentally ill spouse (living hell, long story, pm me if you want details), and talking to others who have dealt with the mentally ill, i've come to an epiphany.. you cannot make sense of "crazy".

  that's why, when you get out of the wt, get out of the mind control, and try to reason with your loved ones or friends, it will not work.

  we are dealing with people under mind control and i believe that is a close cousin of mental illness.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  I never really compared the 2 before but it makes sense. When someone is mentally ill......they simpy cannot reason in a normal fashion. It isn't even a lack of willpower or desire. They just cannot do it. And when someone's mind is controlled by others.....trained to shut down and defend instead of reasoning on a matter......the result is still the same. The INABILITY to reason exists with both scenarios.
• 
  16

  When Was The Last Time "The Friends" Checked Up On You? Spiritual or Social Visit?

  by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know of two couples who left the congregation i faded from, they two have never received a shepherding call, i was usually the one who came by with food or offered to help clean their homes.

  most of you are beyond this like i am, this goes to the new members arriving here who might think the "friends" are coming to check up on them.

  the elders in my former hall were too much into drinking and eating, average body weight was 265lbs with pumpkin shaped bodies.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  From the time I faded to when I was DFd for "apostasy" was a period of about 14 months. During that time, I received 0 visits and 1 phone call. The phone call was from an over zealous and pushy MS who is desperately "reaching out" for eldership. I did not answer so he left a message. It started out ok. He told me he hadnt seen me in a while and missed me. Then proceeded to ask why I wasn't attending anymore. Was it something he did? Am I mad at Jehovah? Then he said and I quote....."I just don't understand how anyone can turn their back on Jehovah like that. It is obvious that things aren't right inside your head. If there's any way I can help you please let me know."

  I felt so warm and fuzzy from the "love" he displayed.
• 
  11

  Instead Of Begging and Badgering Witnesses For Money, What Expenses Could The COs And Governing Body Cut-back?

  by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower is hurting for cash, the circuit overseers are asking everyone throughout the industrialized world to donate their "valuable things" to aid the massive growth in areas where funds are not plentiful.

  the united states is covered with quarters and half-dollars on their streets, we just need to pick them up and put them in the donation box.. .

  there are many areas the watchtower can trim or cut costs to save money.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  The problem that I see is that the WT society doesn't even really pay for these things. I cannot tell you how many times my local KH had visiting speakers from "Bethel".....simply because our COBE was a former Bethelite and he has a lot of crony friends there. Always, always, always......after the speaker visited.....there would be an announcement that brother assclown incurred a total of $1,236 of expenses included airfare for he and his wife, meals etc. There would be a motion for our KH to pay for those expenses. Then some shmuck would say...."let's just send an even $1,500 back to Bethel out of appreciation". There would be a second. Everyone would sip their kool aid and then nod in approval. The motion would carry and the next thing you know......by sending a speaker to our congregation.....the society actually MADE $264 on the deal.
• 
  64

  I'm turning myself in. Lurking elders, are you listening?

  by Eve Deceived in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i think it's fitting for my very first post to be a thread on jw.net turning myself in to any lurking elders out there on a witch-hunt to cleanse the congregation so that god's choosen ones can "remain in god's love.

  " so i'm sorry to all you awesome, truthful apostates on this site, but this thread is really intended for any lurking nazis -- i mean, the taliban -- ugh, i mean elders of the world's most "loving" cult religion.. i am an apostate.

  here, i'll save you the trouble:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  Welcome! Interesting indeed. There has been much speculation on this site as to just how closely it is monitored by the big boys in brooklyn. This may give us an answer
• 
  12

  Discipline or child abuse? Still going on in the hall?

  by Pickler in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  does anyone else remember all the discipline of children at the meetings?

  i was just thinking how i never see anyone physically punish their children anymore.

  growing up attending meetings there was a constant stream of children being taken out & hit, as well as all the whispered threats, arm squeezing, pinching etc.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  "In a strange way parents got a lot of social approval for harshly disciplining their children. In the meetings discipline was equated with love."

  Lord isn't that the truth. It is just like the disfellowshipping doctrine. The more harsh you are.....the more "love" you are showing
• 
  86

  Resigned being an elder

  by subytrek in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am new here and this is my first post although i have lurked here for a couple years.

  i started having doubts about the org back then and my curiosity overcame my fear of so-called apostate websites so here i am.

  i just resigned being an elder 2 weeks ago.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  Welcome

  Go nice and slow with your wife. If she agrees with some of the problems you've pointed out......you're on the right path. Just don't go too fast or she'll hunker down and throw up the shield