Posts by ScenicViewer

43

What changes have you noticed in the Witness

by d in

i have noticed are more angrier then when i was a child in the 90's and that they seem more uptight.what changes have you seen?.

ScenicViewer

JW GoneBad said,

It is as though the WTBTS needs a new theme, facelift, name or something in order to recapture the R&F's interest.

I believe this is true. There was a time when there were constant new understandings, new updates, new light, etc. But today there aren't any creative minds left in the Watchtower. Fred Franz was the master of the organizational facelift. No matter how silly his notions appear to be now, they were devoured by Witnesses back in the day, and each time it made them feel reinforced that this religion is the truth! It's good that the facelift days are gone, since they were nothing more than thin facades anyway.

I see more and more witnesses that have no clue what they are supposed to believe. I clearly remember a Circuit Overseer saying many years ago, in a talk to the congregation, that most people in Christendom didn't know what they were supposed to believe. The gist was that since we are Jehovah's people, and have the truth, we know very clearly what we believe. Those days are gone.

Regarding the blood issue and the meaning of 'this generation', most witnesses are without a clue. The truth to many of them is simply that they don't vote, believe in the Trinity, or celebrate Christmas. And that's about it. A few years ago I mentioned the United Nations NGO relationshiop to a 40 year old born-in witness. After about 5 minutes of reviewing the Society's teachings about the UN, he said "I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about." He really didn't have a clue what the Society's view of the UN was.

Witnesses don't witness anymore. When I came in, early '70s, knowing your beliefs and being able to explain them, using your Bible, was emphasized. At some point, during the 80s as I recall, it began to change. Extended conversations at the doorstep were now discouraged. Witnessing became more of a 'let the literature do the witnessing' kind of job. I was always puzzled by that, since people are the Witnesses, not the literature. Now I get the feeling it was meant to protect Witnesses from learning about their religion from house holders who knew more about it than they did. It wouldn't do to be asked a hard question that made you think, because you might find out you don't have the truth after all.

It has spiraled downward from there. Thinking became discouraged by putting a distasteful sounding adjective in front of it, and calling it 'independent thinking'. That made it sound like you were rebelling against God if you dared to think. After all, who have become independent from God and his organization? Apostates. They are rebels because of independent thinking. A positive spin on thinking, such as calling it constructive thinking, or critical thinking, was avoided. This was a controlling mechanism that made Witnesses feel guilty for asking honest questions that showed solid reasoning.

Today the organization depends on Witness not knowing very much. They are like automatons going through mechanical motions, responding to a leadership that has reduced itself to cracking the whip to maintain control. (As evidenced by recent study articles regarding 'mentally diseased' apostates that should be 'slaughtered'.)

20

James Beverley's book on Penton's expulsion now on Abebooks

by MrMonroe in

"crisis of allegiance" is a slim, but excellent book written by a professor of religion on the events in lethbridge, alberta, around 1981, that led to the expulsion of jim penton, a jw who believed he was anointed but also happened to think the wts had some doctrines wrong.. it's a great read that ties in quite closely with the campaign to get rid of ray franz, showing the dirty tricks used by the society to rid themselves of someone who dared to question them.

penton was an academic who the society loved when he wrote a book on their human rights legal challenges ... but when he expanded his research and decided to do a book on their history, pow!

they began regarding him with great suspicion.

ScenicViewer

When I checked Abebooks, there were 2 available. One was being sold by kbooksusa. The same seller had it listed on Amazon, and I bought it there. Aparrently the seller had only one copy, so when I bought it from Amazon, it dropped from Abebooks.

57

ACRONISMS ... let's play,,, do you know what this means?

by talesin in

jw
friends

okay, these two i have 'borrowed' from the us military --- do you know what they mean?

snafu.

fubar.

ScenicViewer

SNAFU: Situation Normal All Fouled Up (polite form)

WOPR: War Operations Planned Response (from the movie War Games). Plus several other meanings.

DEFCON: Defense Condition -or- Define Constant (methematics)

MAD: Make a Difference, Mutually Assured Destruction, among others

SOL: Summer of Love, Statute of Limitations, and more

SSDD: Same Stuff Different Day (polite form)

WNL: Within Normal Limits

LOLNAD: (No idea, I'm stumped)

107

Video of my Circuit Assembly visit!

by serenitynow! in

jw
friends

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ttprya0kk.

this is the video my apostabuddy put together about last week's caper.

enjoy!.

ScenicViewer

@ Carla, who said...

Did that place look kind of empty or are they always like that?

My last KH meeting and assembly were several years ago, but I remember them being just like what you saw in the video. There was a time when Circuit Assemblys were packed, Kingdom Halls too. But for the past couple of decades, at least, they are getting emptier and emptier.

For the last several years that I attended meetings, the KH was often half empty. Sometimes on Thursday nite (our Theocratic School and Service Meeting nite) the KH would be less than 1/3 full. It was embarassing.

There were enough publishers on file to fill the building, if they just brought unbaptised children with them, but the publishers were staying away.

35

Question...?

by cptkirk in

does anyone come into this religion who is doing well in life?

not to say any one particular person never did well in life, but when they were studying and getting baptized, at that particular time in their life, were things going good for them?.

i'm trying to figure out if anyone comes into this religion, while life is going good for them.

ScenicViewer

Agent zero said, i certainly don't think a blanket statement or generalization can be made about it, because there are ALWAYS exceptions. as was already brought out, often people who seem to have it all together outwardly, have other internal issues others don't know about.

Very true in my opinion, that making generalizations is risky. I actually agree with the OP, in that many people are attracted to the religion because of problems in their life. The Society promotes the religion on that basis...no more hunger, no more financial worries, no more war, no more violence, no more anything that stems from our imperfect nature, no more problems associated with this old system, come join our spiritual paradise now. Naturally people with problems will be attracted.

But not all who come in have problems. The religion is also promoted on the basis of 'Truth', worshiping God in the right way, loving God and neighbor, and many respond actually believing it is all that.

Another thing that attracted me personally, that I did not mention previously, was the people and friendships that had developed. I liked the people! And still do. Most witnesses are good, caring people -- but as I've learned, blind as well -- and being one of them provided a very strong sense of community, a powerful motivator for me. However I'm sure the same sense of community can be had with Mormons, Adventists, and other groups as well. It's the organization that is the big problem; witnesses are so misled by it.

Sizemik said, For those converting prior to the internet age . . . obtaining any external information at all on Jehovah's Witnesses was next to impossible . . . and publically available knowledge of this group was non-existent.

That is huge Sizemik. I remember hearing of only one book before I became a witness, and that was 'Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave'. To my discredit, I did not bother to get a copy and read it. One of the great scriptures used by withesses, then and now, is 1Th 5:21, "Make sure of all things and hold fast to what is fine." If I had actually applied that safeguard it would have made a huge difference in the path I chose, but I ignored it. I had already accepted that the Society was telling the truth, and I let the organization do my 'making sure' for me.

Now it's different. The internet is a life saver. I research lots of information about JWs, almost every day. And I use Amazon and Ebay to buy old literature so I can read for myself what the Society once said, rather than accepting what most witnesses say about the past, which is usually to blame the followers for having a 'misunderstanding.'

If most witnesses used the internet to research and investigate the religion, the organization would crumble. But they are afraid of it, because the Society has demonized both the internet and those who dispense information there. I remember when I first went on and looked up something about witnesses. I could feel my heart start pounding, I did a double check of the house to make sure I was alone, my breathing became heavy. I felt guilty.

A relative, now in her 70s, tells me it was different in the '50s when she was active. The Society used to welcome investigation. Put it to the test, they would say. We have nothing to hide. But it was safe enough to say that then, since, as you noted Sizemik, there was no readily available information exposing the Society's past.

In reality the Society has everything to hide, and getting at the information is easy, once you get past the fear of displeasing an organization, and use the available resources...the internet!

35

Question...?

by cptkirk in

does anyone come into this religion who is doing well in life?

not to say any one particular person never did well in life, but when they were studying and getting baptized, at that particular time in their life, were things going good for them?.

i'm trying to figure out if anyone comes into this religion, while life is going good for them.

ScenicViewer

when did you leave anyway?

I began to leave mentally in the early to mid '90s. I attended my last meeting 10 years later.

still in that mentality (back then) that you are a helpless entity, and whatever the adults say goes.

It was really the organization that I believed in; the adults were an extension of that. Or so I thought.

32

How important is it to you that Lawence Hughes wins his case against the WT and doctors

by zengalileo in

just curious.

in my opinion it is the most importantr thing ex jws should be supporting right now.

the case is at a crucial point.

ScenicViewer

Randy gained more respect from me that day, just for saying "thanks".

I have to second that notion regarding Randy's manners. He practices what he preaches. After making a small Paypal donation to Freeminds, I received a Thank You email, as well as a Thank You card in the mail. It does impress.

156

Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank

by AndersonsInfo in

victoria, australia: report on oct. 11th hearing involving steven unthank.

(this report is from an anonymous xjw who attended the hearing.

i had no plans to turn up to the court hearing as an observer, as in my experience, it can take several hearings and a number of months before any court case gets rolling.

ScenicViewer

court may say, in effect, 'Since you've complied now, even if it's a few months late, we'll let this go with a slap on the wrist and a fine.'

This may well be true . . . but if it is a successful prosecution it will leave some with a criminal record . . . and plenty of bad publicity.

Oh yes! I hadn't really thought of that. Having the criminal record will be nice, and deserved. (I know this is a criminal case, but for some reason I keep thinking of it in terms of a civil case.)

35

Question...?

by cptkirk in

does anyone come into this religion who is doing well in life?

not to say any one particular person never did well in life, but when they were studying and getting baptized, at that particular time in their life, were things going good for them?.

i'm trying to figure out if anyone comes into this religion, while life is going good for them.

ScenicViewer

so you did have a problem than? you had anxiety about armageddon and you wanted to assuage that anxiety?

@ me?

No, I don't think I had a problem with armageddon. I really felt what I was learning was the truth. When armageddon failed it had little affect on me, and I stayed in the religion for many years. I was not fully aware of what the organization had said about 1975 being the end, and when remarks were made about some people misunderstanding it all, I didn't question it. Only in the past few years have I looked into that, and have discovered what a completely dishonest organization the WTS is.

In the early days, I spent long hours reading publications, such as Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, the Society's first history book, and looiking into doctrinal beliefs. The history impressed me greatly. The accuracy of the doctrinal beliefs impressed me too. As I mentioned, I was very gullible. I believed everything I heard -- from the platform, at an assembly, from a CO, from a pioneer, from a mature person in the congregation, from the publications -- I believed it all, only to eventually find out that so much of if was pure manipulation.

My eyes began to open when the long held understanding of the 'generation that will not pass away' was changed. I could see prior to the change that time was running out, and knew that something would have to give sooner or later. What gave was getting rid of the old understanding, and replacing it with the silly notion of a 'contemporary generation of wicked people', or words to that effect, followed by 2 or 3 more changes since.

At about the same time I noticed that elders lie from the platform. For example I heard one eder say, "The Society's position on blood has never changed." I felt that wasn't quite right when he said it, and I never forgot it. When I got the internet I looked into that, and found there had been literally dozens of changes over the decades.

I honestly believed it was the truth, and gave my life to it. I think that when I came in I was about as normal as most kids my age.

35

Question...?

by cptkirk in

does anyone come into this religion who is doing well in life?

not to say any one particular person never did well in life, but when they were studying and getting baptized, at that particular time in their life, were things going good for them?.

i'm trying to figure out if anyone comes into this religion, while life is going good for them.

ScenicViewer

Myself, I came in during the 1975 boom, and was very young, 20 at baptism. I had no problems in life, and was in college, which I dropped out of, and really believed what I was learning. If there is a pattern of normal people coming it, I would think it happens particularly during an 'end-of-the-world' scare, and young people are always gullible.