after reading messengers post on new light i couldn't help but think up this scenario.
you all know how obsessed i am with 'tacking' so give me a break k hahaha.
"ok everyone listen up this is your captor uhhmm i mean captain speaking.
LOL Expat that is too funny! I love it
Vennie I haven't seen the cam in awhile! You really should stop working so much. And I need to get rid of the kids, we can go back to how it used to be Oh okay I guess I am just saying that I miss ya. Probably should have just said that! Chat with you soon
wendy
When I leave, you will know I have been here
please see the following story about the hensley murder case.
http://www2.bostonherald.com/news/local_regional/east02022002.htm.
does anyone know anymore about this kind of "guided" divorce?
((((Gopher))))
I miss you man! I have been so busy lately I haven't really had time to talk to everyone I want to. I sorry. I agree that the family unit is shittzles in the org. They make such a show of it being important, yet they do so much damage to it with all of their silly rules. Focus posted this article awhile back and I made a reply over there, too lazy to bring it here. lol Do a search for "Family life Jw style", or something like that for my thoughts on this particualr case. That is if you want in my brain haha.
wendy
EDITED to add link and comments on case.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=20898&site=3
Now for my response on the original thread I am of the mindset that a person may commit a murder and never have a history of violence. Rage is a weird thing, and can overcome the best of us. You must take in all of the evidence and circumstances that are involved in this case. As Exjw's we know what most of thsoe circumstances were if his wife was becoming indoctrinated.
She is no longer spending all of her evenings at home with her husband. She is spending more time away in field service. She is singling out the children for their family bible study, excluding him. Perhaps the children are going to her more now and seeing her as the head of the home. Perhaps the limited time he has to spend with his family is being robbed by the org and even their thoughts and actions have changed. Jokes she once would laugh at, are now met with a deadpan look or even worse a look of disgust. She is bubbling over with her enthusiam and he is feeling more and more alone. Everything he has worked for up until this point in time is changing and he is losing them. This poor guy is now living in the Twilight Zone!
As Focus already posted there are documented places that the org has encouraged seperation of families. We know this to be a fact. They may make it sound good and upright but even as a child I could see it was another way of lieing and being decietful. I am so glad I no longer have to deal with that.
My hope is for the children, that they are not pulled into the org because of this. I hope they can find a way to see all of the facts and make a decision that will encourage a happier life, not snuff it out. If only they know what we know...they would run very far away from it all.
wendy
When I leave, you will know I have been here
i have to ask this although i have a feeling i dont really want to read the responses but anyway.
i talked to several people here today who dont believe there is a god at all.
this is disturbing!
Sunbeam and Flower,
I will address both of you if you don't mind. I really don't think it is my place to say why a person does a certain thing, because we can never really know. If we start getting into this discussion too deeply I am afraid the points I was trying to make may get lost. My basic post on this subject I said it may sound extreme, but if you think about it you can see why I came to this conclusion. There are many things that I had to abanddon when I started on my journey, and one of them was thinking with emotions. Again another extreme statement, yet our feelings may guide us in a direction that is not always the most logical.
I had to look at things differently and in doing so I came to my own conclusions. Now I will ask you just a few basic questions. You don't have to answer here, but may if you wish. As I said I am not judging your character or intentions.
A person is saved at the age of 17, he lives a christian lifestyle for 4 years, then turns away from it. He steals, lies, and murders another human. Do you feel that his salvation has been won? He will go to heaven? Why or why not?
A pastor in your church is found to have commited adultry. How will the church handle that? If he decides to leave the church with this woman and never return, is his spot in heaven reserved? What if he goes to another church and preaches there?
A woman kills her own child, then she comes to church and is saved. She has no remorse about killing her child, even bragging about it. She claims she is saved and god has forgiven her because she was imperfect, yet she still feels she was right in killing her own child. Will this woman still go to heaven?
There are so many scenarios that can be played out. Nobody can say what is in a persons heart. But imo if you accept God as your creator, you are accountable to a certain extent to him. It is not enough that you believe Jesus payed for your sins. You must maintain a christian lifestyle according to his laws in order to recieve your reward.
Sunbeam I said before I know the love you feel and you feel it is a reflection of God's love for you. I have no problem with that, I thought the same way myself. What I want you to rememeber is that I was a christian, I know what you will say next so to speak lol If you look at it standing outside of the box, you can see why I came to the conclusions I did.
I really did not mean any harm or infer anything bad when I made those comments. And I hope that you weren't offended by it.
wendy
When I leave, you will know I have been here
i have to ask this although i have a feeling i dont really want to read the responses but anyway.
i talked to several people here today who dont believe there is a god at all.
this is disturbing!
Hey Sunbeam,
I appreciate your thoughts. I already stated I was a christian outside of Jw life for 8 years. I am aware of the overflow of love in your heart that you speak of. I still have that in my heart, without a God in my life, it is truly a wonderful feeling. As a christian I did not ever agree that salvation was guaranteed to us, no matter what sins we commited. I felt there was an accountablilty to god and ourselves to maintain the christian lifestyle. If your outlook is true then christians would not even have to try to live any type of lifestyle. They could murder, steal, lie etc. Why do they not? Because as I said, in the back of your mind you know that you are accountable for your actions, and your afterlife depends on it.
As far as every move and act of kindness hinging on this fact, I don't think that is true. That would totally be discounting the human spirit, and there are so many out there who are loving caring people, with or without God in their lives.
wendy
When I leave, you will know I have been here
i have to ask this although i have a feeling i dont really want to read the responses but anyway.
i talked to several people here today who dont believe there is a god at all.
this is disturbing!
Flower,
I think that is a fair question. I too have heard these stories, and was impressed with the human spirit to change. I have always said that you can change your attitude, and forgiving a past mistake is not hard for me to do. I think that christianity uses the experiences that these men and woman have as a way of promoting the religion. They feel obligated to preach and spread their version of the bible. So of course any story that occurs will get much attention.
Now imagine driving down the street and someone slams on their brakes in front of you. Suppose your kids are in the car and all of you are shook up over this near miss. As you continue down the street, you will be more careful about your driving, wouldn't you? And if one of you was hurt, you would be even more cautious next tiem when driving, because you wouldn't want this to happen again to you or anyone else.
I think that it is possible for a non believer to also have a near miss and then with the ability to look at it from another viewpoint, perhaps changing their attitude or outlook after that. Since an atheist or agnostic does not need to give the glory to another, they may not tell everyone of their change of heart. So it could be that there are many more stories of changes in heart conditions than you have heard.
wendy
When I leave, you will know I have been here
i have to ask this although i have a feeling i dont really want to read the responses but anyway.
i talked to several people here today who dont believe there is a god at all.
this is disturbing!
Flower
Awwww you are so cute. No worries mate. As Larc said I went through my learning process here on the board, as I look back I said some pretty wild stuff too. Thankfully there were many who helped me to open my eyes to their viewpoints and I was able to see that their moral value system was indeed intact. Abaddon already touched on this point, but I will bring it up again.
As a atheist or agnostic, and you do "good" towards another human, you are doing it out of the love in your heart. As a christian there is always the thought in the back of your mind that you are doing it for your reward in the afterlife of your choice. This may sound extreme, but if you think about it you can see how I can come to this conclusion.
wendy
When I leave, you will know I have been here
neither my wife or i have committed adultery ,we have just grown apart and annoy each other to death what shall i do?
After reading Dana's post, I wanted to come back in here to clarify my statements. She made me realize that perhaps I sounded too caustic in my post.(thanks Dana) I in no way feel that I have the right to tell you what to do in terms, of getting counselling. The only reason I feel it is a must when you have children, is because I feel that their well being far exceeds what an adult may feel.
I don't think people should stay together for the children either. My parents did this, and it lead to a pretty messed up childhood. I just feel that exploring all options when children are involved is important. Not only will counselling help you to put your feelings into words, it may help the communication between your wife and yourself.
As I said my sister is going through a seperation now, and her husband is staying here with us. I guess that is why I was so emotional with my response. She unlike many adults is very immature and withholding the children from him, not even letting him talk to them on the phone, until he gives her money etc. Childish behavior that only confuses the kids and gets my goat. I believe their relationship is one that cannot be saved, yet all of the added stress involving the children has to be so unsettling for them. They are confused as it is.
Anyway, I am sorry if I sounded so preachy, I really hope the best for you.
wendy
When I leave, you will know I have been here
my wife and i attended our last meeting last night.
it wasn't so bad, since it was bookstudy and they threw a little party for us afterwards - we are moving to wa from pa next week.
we will never set foot in a kingdom hall again - feels great.
WOOHOO! This has been some time coming, and I am so glad the time is here! Did you ever watch The South Pacific? Vennie had a great signature for awhile from one of the songs. "I am going to wash this Borg right outta my hair." Very upbeat song and the finalization you feel is pure freedom! I am very happy for you guys, and hope the family in does not cause too many speed bumps throughout the years
wendy
When I leave, you will know I have been here
i have been separated from the jws now for 4 years.
the first year, i went into a deep and severe clinical depression.
i think that's what happens when you are 3rd generation jw, born and raised.
Smoldering wick(great name BTW)
You were very fortunate to have the web when you first came out. I was all alone in this world when I left, and it was not until last year I even knew there were so many Ex jw's who are "normal" people and not evil apostates. I have been out for 9 years now, and I have to admit that as long as you have family in, you will be dragged back into the JW life every now and then. Through the years I have had a few run ins and cried for days myself over things that occured with them. All I know to tell you, is that it does get easier. Last Saturday, I had a 2 hour convo with my active JW mom, and I was upst afterward, but not like I would have been 5 years ago. I think the more solid you become in your thoughts and beliefs then the better you will feel. We are all a work in progress, and it is amazing to see where I was last year in my ideas. I hope you find comfort here and feel more secure to share your ideas, I really enjoyed reading your post.
wendy
Frenchy,
Just wanted to give ya a quick ((((hug)))) and peck on the cheek. Great to see you!
wendy
When I leave, you will know I have been here
neither my wife or i have committed adultery ,we have just grown apart and annoy each other to death what shall i do?
TR That was my question!
Nightwing,
As others have suggested try counselling before the break up. It is amazing what a third party observer can do for a relationship. If there are kids then I say counselling is a must before any attempts at breaking up. Also if there are children, your feelings do not matter in this case, sorry to be blunt but that is how I feel. You must learn to hold your tongue and make sure they are comfortable at all times. Not saying you should stay if you are miserable, I am saying if you are miserable, they don't have to know. And if you are really annoyed at your wife for doing something, then hold your tongue in front of the kids. It just irks me to death to see how juvenile some adults are in front of their children. lol My sister is going through a seperation now, and her hubby is staying with us. There is more garbage I am putting up with, due to her acting like a teenager, I can handle it, the kids are confused.
Anywho I hope the best for you. I am sure if you keep things amicable and stay open with each other you can remain great friends. There are many who have done just that. It does require both parties to reason as adults though, which is tough at times when feelings are hurt. Good Luck!
wendy
When I leave, you will know I have been here
