It kills me to see the power the WTS has even on those who disagree with them and want to leave!!! Why the heck would anyone admit to disagreeing and submit to the standards of a society they disagree with??? For crying out loud - fade out and be happy to have no more to do with the borg. In doing it so, save your family. Once again, we owe NOTHING to the borg, and should not abide by their rules!
And by the way - I don't lie. I faded and became what they call an outright apostate (when all I did was change my mind with new info). But by the time they could accuse me of anything I was gone.
My whole family knows where I stand - but they are happy I'm not DFed. Maybe some misunderstand what it is to fade; it's slowly getting out - and staying out!
No need to lie for years... why?
PS: I know there are some elders that over-zelously look for you for the kill. A move to another cong would be to consider in that case.
braincleaned
JoinedPosts by braincleaned
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Reasons to fade or not to fade
by gabrielg inlately i've been thinking about fading from the cong but im not sure about what would be the top reason in my list.
without writing 2 page answers, question for anyone posting in repply to this or whoever reads this.
what would be your reason/reasons for fading?
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braincleaned
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Reasons to fade or not to fade
by gabrielg inlately i've been thinking about fading from the cong but im not sure about what would be the top reason in my list.
without writing 2 page answers, question for anyone posting in repply to this or whoever reads this.
what would be your reason/reasons for fading?
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braincleaned
I faded to keep my family. I'm still publically loud and obnoxiously open on my atheism and against the borg, on Facebook for example. So eventually someone will get fed-up and go for the kill. In the meantime, I feel I owe no explainations to the WTS, and I actually find it ironic that many play THEIR game and admit to their personal doubts and get DFed. You see - I don't feel I owe them shit, and I'll be damned if I will offer myself to their judgement and get DFed.
I feel some friends run strait to the headlights to get ran over because they feel they have to justify their jay-walking. YOU OWE THE BORG NOTHING. -
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Does This Happen to You? I Need Help :/
by DarioKehl inhey guys.... i have a few important questions for everyone.
this applies to doubters, faders, inactive, dfed or seasoned apostates.
first, let me set it up:.
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braincleaned
Always bear in mind that there is no way to leave this organisation with your dignity. That, unfortunately is a FACT.
I had to force myself to not care anymore. It was my conscience against the bigotry of the very ones I love.
I chose to be an outright apostate. Ironically, I'm still a fader, as I have slipped thru the claws of the WTS. But, I'm ready to get DFed with shame - as I blog very openly and full throttle. -
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Need some help!!!!! ***URGENT***
by sinis inmy wifes mother recently passed away, and it has devastated my wife.
the family, who are not witnesses, but out of respect for the deceased, and who was a jw, had the ceremony at the kingdum hell, which almost made me throw up... last time i ever step foot in that place.
i felt like a vampire on the threshold of a church, as i looked into the interior hall feeling my skin burn and start to smoke... anyways, as i have posted on here before a friend of my wife, has in the past, sent her (my wife) emails about going back to the kingdumb hell.
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braincleaned
I just wanted to add that a shared email is a BIG mistake (although apparently conveniant at this time).
Also, NewChapter has a point about relationships and this situation, IMHO... -
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Need some help!!!!! ***URGENT***
by sinis inmy wifes mother recently passed away, and it has devastated my wife.
the family, who are not witnesses, but out of respect for the deceased, and who was a jw, had the ceremony at the kingdum hell, which almost made me throw up... last time i ever step foot in that place.
i felt like a vampire on the threshold of a church, as i looked into the interior hall feeling my skin burn and start to smoke... anyways, as i have posted on here before a friend of my wife, has in the past, sent her (my wife) emails about going back to the kingdumb hell.
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braincleaned
I'm on the fence here. On one side, my skin crawls at the idea your wife would even consider going back to the Borg - on the other, she should enjoy the freedom of choice when it comes to her own life. Tough one, i know. I hope she smartens up to reality and reason. Otherwise, I fear you must respect her choice. I have that delemma with my 2 kids - one attracted to the borg, the other, like me - a happy atheist. I must respect the freedom to chose for both.
All I can do is try to reason with delicatness... we all have to make personal choices.
I do feel for you very strongly. Hang in there, and be as smooth as you can. Reason lovingly with her. Any ill-placed passion will throw her their way. Trust me on that one. -
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Stephen hawkings "Did God creat the universe?"
by dm6 infound this to be a very interesting watch.. watch with an open mind if you are still religious in anyway.. .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqhd05zvywg.
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braincleaned
I've watched this a few times - in awe - but suspending my judgement on the "nothing" part. Not only thru my research am I skeptic of "nothing" having ever existed (cf. Laurence Krauss), but I keep on wondering if the Big Bang, ours, is just one of an infinity of Big Bangs - as if Nature breaths in and out.
This said, this is one of my favorite of Hawkin's series!
A lot to consider. I'm facinated with QM. Here's my latest note, as a layman, on the subject:
" I'm not a scientist, nor do I have a special understanding of quantum physics - quite the contrary; the more I read and study about it, the more it get's confusing to me. I'm just a friggin' artist for crying out loud!However - I think. I also fight my bias.
I'm a seeker of Truth - at least bits of it, as we all die more ignorant than knowledgable. In view of that, every nugget of discovered truth is wonderfully precious.
The science of quantum physics is there, albeit still in it's infancy. And there is already talk about Quantum Computers in less that 10 years from now. Consequently, it would be silly to ignore where we are going with this.
I've wrote many times that my atheism is not narrowed to materialism. I don't believe that everything is reducible to matter, and I'm quite aware that I can't disprove the possibility of intelligence, and even a certain form of purpose for/in/by the Universe. I think it would be intellectually obtuse to reject the possibility of god-like intelligence in the Universe - I just have reasons to dismiss the very human-like gods of our superstitions and age-old religions. (I must be extremely prudent in using such a loaded word as "god" when attributing it to the workings of nature.)
I repeat to be clear; I just have reasons to dismiss the very human-like gods of our superstitions and age-old religions. Science and logic has debunked way too much of it.
What blows my mind is what has been discovered thru Quantum Mechanics so far. QM has a mind of it's own. It's the weirdest thing. It opens the floodgates of important questions, that may finally address the idea of design.
Thru QM, we now see evidence that there has never been "nothing". On that note, theists should be careful with their sarcasm when they mockingly state, "atheists believe that everything came from nothing!"
NO WE DON'T.
In fact, we could make the same accusation - theists claim without evidence that God has always existed, and that he created everything from nothing - while dismissing any question of God's origin might I add. Like Carl Sagan pointed out - both theists and atheists share the same seemingly unanswerable question - if God has always existed, then why not conclude that "Nature" always existed?
Since that profound commentary of over 30 years ago in his series "Cosmos", we have come closer to an answer that may indeed confirm that the Universe - nature - has always existed, and that "nothing" never is nor was.
I find that extremely exciting!
We have a lot to learn - and unfortunately, I will be long gone before scientists understand fully, even harness, quantum physics. But if my guess is worth anything, I have a hunch that our understanding of the apparent design and order of the Universe will point to an "Intelligent Universe" - with more purpose than we imagine.
We are all star dust - just not inanimate dust, it seems.
One thing I feel more sure of, is that our understanding will put to rest the idea of past genocidal, jealous, vengeful, and very man-like god's of the past - and the dangerous and judgmental attitudes that go along with their followers. (Not going to happen tomorrow as knowledge outside one's religion or community is often conveniently demonized.)
Time will tell. We are already getting a peek at a whole new paradigm...I encourage anyone who thinks for self to search videos and articles on Quantum Mechanics. It will blow your mind.
A future to look forward and be opened-minded for…:) "
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A spin off of the athiest thread
by trujw inhas anyone thought there is a god but he is not perfect.
maybe he is flawed not all knowing and looks at us the same as i look at ants?
people are either black or white.
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braincleaned
For decades I believed Jehovah existed, but that his human-like character sucked. I was mad at him for decades, while still believing.
Now I'm a happy atheist. Finally found out he had the character and flaws of the writers that invented him. -
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Lots of Good News everybody!
by OneDayillBeFree inyou know one of the reasons why some witnesses decide to stay inside is to help others wake up and leave as well, and although this hasnt been exactly a goal of mine, it was something i'd ponder every now and again.
and we all know that it is not easy to get to jw's when they are fully mind controlled.
but i'd like to tell you guys what's been happening with brothers and sisters without the help of others who know ttatt.... so last night i got a phone call from a brother who's a good friend of mine whom i've talked about in the past here.
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braincleaned
Good Job, OneDay! Ya put a smile on my face. :D
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Christ's 'silence' on slavery.
by tec inone of the accusations against christ that some people make to me from time to time is that christ never spoke out against slavery, and so he must condone it.. i would submit that slavery (the forcible enslaving of your fellow man)... is not the root problem.
it is merely a symptom of the root problem.
christ came to deal with the root.
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braincleaned
I don't even understand this OP...
Jesus talked about 'just looking at a woman' and would have ignored the elephant in the room of slavery???
(By the way, Jesus example would have sufficed about adultery too - following the arguemtnt.)
You add to that, Paul who gives council on how to be a 'good slave' for your Owner...
There is no use rationalizing. Jesus didn't find slavery important enough to mention it. Says a lot about him IMO. -
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A question for active or recent Elders about apostate judicial meetings...
by EndofMysteries inin the shepherd the flock book, i did not really notice a protocol for how they judge and go about w/ apostates or those suspected.
i was wondering if there was a seperate letter or word of mouth instruction on that.
mainly.......are they told to not let the accused talk about their reasons and get into much detail, or at some point to not talk or listen to them at all, etc.
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braincleaned
I haven't been DFed, as I am a fader (too keep my family united).
However, I did call in the elders to ask hard questions, and they listened to me respecfully. I even had the special visit of the CO, who after a while just looked at me and said "you're too quick - I can't answer." He was kind and polite - although I saw him worried. These were not trick-questions - but deep context-related concerns, that were clearly shaking my faith in everything. I know my Bible very well; personal study was my favorite (still is).
I felt a lot of love, and some discreet frustration from their part for not being able to counter these logical questions, all of them just refering to the Bible. (At that time, I had still refused to look at anything online that could be considered apostate).
After a considerable time, they came back to see where I was spiritually. They admitted to me that they were afraid I may be turning apostate - and I knew these brothers well, as good friends. I told them I was suspending my questionning for the time being, just to reassure them. They prayed for me, and that was the last time I saw them, as I moved cross-country. The rest is history, and I'm now a happy atheist - still needing some closure from the Organisation that fooled me for so long.
So, I think the 'judgement' of a supposed apostate is up to the discretion of the elders. To me it was clear the protocol was rather flexible.
Believe me, my questions were bathing in the taboos of the Society. I guess everybody has a different experience...