Posts by Moxy

31

Subtle Propaganda at DC -but Noticeable To Us

by Had Enough in

jw
friends

as ive mentioned in other posts, i felt obligated to go to the dc (in hamilton) this weekend to help my family with my aging mom, who in my opinion just goes for the social outing because she is physically not able to stay awake for more that 1/5 th of the whole sessions except intermissions.. i know others have posted their observations of the dc they attended but id like to make an addition from things that just jumped right out at me and made me go argggghhhhh!.

and btw....i felt some of the comments made seemed to be as though they were answering their justification of some of the things being brought out on the internet, including here.. on friday, even in talks that were not about higher education, they managed to slip in their subtle propaganda, as in:.

- bob alton, said peter and john were outspoken about gods word and were unlettered and ordinary men they didnt need higher education to speak wondrous things of god.

Moxy

im not saying that you are imagining it, just that the tendency exists. i will see what i think myself next weekend. you are right of course, and i dont think theres any question on this point, that the theme of the drama and other talks is directed at stemming the loss due to growing rebelliousness. but i dont see this as a 'direct' response to the threat of x-jw groups on the internet, but certainly an indirect one. in other words, i dont really think that the teaching committee is sitting there planning the program saying, 'well here's what's being said on this webpage, now how can we address that?' altho indirectly that may appear to be the case.

mox

31

Subtle Propaganda at DC -but Noticeable To Us

by Had Enough in

jw
friends

as ive mentioned in other posts, i felt obligated to go to the dc (in hamilton) this weekend to help my family with my aging mom, who in my opinion just goes for the social outing because she is physically not able to stay awake for more that 1/5 th of the whole sessions except intermissions.. i know others have posted their observations of the dc they attended but id like to make an addition from things that just jumped right out at me and made me go argggghhhhh!.

and btw....i felt some of the comments made seemed to be as though they were answering their justification of some of the things being brought out on the internet, including here.. on friday, even in talks that were not about higher education, they managed to slip in their subtle propaganda, as in:.

- bob alton, said peter and john were outspoken about gods word and were unlettered and ordinary men they didnt need higher education to speak wondrous things of god.

Moxy

i agree. there is a tendency to think the talks are responding to things you read about here because that's what on your mind and you pick up on that. i doubt that this is really the case, except indirectly. without having heard the program yet myself of course, i can't say much. i will probably make some comments after next weekend.

mox

9

Questions on the "Stand Firm" Video

by mole in

jw
friends

my wife and i are being bullied by my mother and mother-in-law into watching the "wonderful" new video "stand firm" i have been trying to research the controversy behind this issue but have not been able to clearly see what this is all about in a nutshell.

does anyone have any reliable information on this?

would be interesting to have some background on this topic before listening to the official wt spin

Moxy

i believe the most damning counter to the stand firm video is the organizational stand taken originally--the anti-semite, pro-nazi stand that is well documented in WT publications and explained well at watchtower.observer.org - also in 'apocalypse delayed'.

mox

7

Jehovah is Going to Kill Your Babysitter

by metatron in

jw
friends

this is such a useful quote, it needs to be repeated.

and recopied everywhere.. sept.2000 kingdom ministry article entitled.

"lives are at stake!.

Moxy

this oft-quoted KM article was the last talk i gave. the hardest talk i ever gave too.

mox

9

Will This REALLY Remove Foolishness?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

when my parents entered the world of the witnesses, i was aged 8 years old.. dubbism did not sit easily on my young shoulders, and, try as he might, my dad struggled vainly to inculcate the new personality into his wayward, eldest son.

eventually, the strong diet of guilt and fear made inroads into my head, but, fortunately for me, it never reached my heart.

i was left with a personality that, instead of having absorbed the jw teachings had instead, become sort of striped.. the result was a boisterous child who liked nothing better to cheek those in authority.

Moxy

we hear often in talks and publications about Dr. Spock's famous 'apology' for raising a generation of deliquents. the interpretaion invariably being that even the worldy experts have recanted their view that corporeal punishment is wrong. i believe i remember that this quotation is at least greatly over-simplified or even badly misconstrued. could someone please clarify?

mox

13

Awake exploits family tragedy ....

by dedalus in

jw
friends

by now most here have read the terrible story of a pregnant witness, theresa giarrano, who was murdered for her unborn child.

the story appeared in vogue magazine shortly after the events took place; it is only now, 10 months later, that the awake (july 22, 2001 issue) has published anything about this tragedy.

though the story is "as told by" theresa's father, james giarrano, it is such a twisted piece of exploitation that i can only believe a ghost writer or collaborator is behind it.

Moxy

my father gave a funeral talk for my mother's father who was not a witness. the service was at a non-denominational funeral home and i guess the family felt that my father was the most qualified. the talk given was only slightly different from the outline given for a witness memorial talk. i dont know if thats a specific outline or just up to the individual to use the content of the outline as it applies. but i found the talk very disrespectful. my grandfather had no connection to the witnesses at all and the words used to sum up his life and comfort the family (many non-witness) were largely a bible sermon on the resurrection and paradise hope. it was sad in a way i find hard to explain.

mox

5

anyone in Hamilton, ON DC next weekend?

by Moxy in

jw
friends

i heard from a couple people that might be there.

would like to know for sure.... mox

Moxy

i heard from a couple people that might be there. would like to know for sure...

mox

25

IS THE WTS a PROVEN FRAUD?

by Amazing in

jw
friends

jw defenders often claim that those of us who left the wts are shipwreaked in our faith and have succumbed to apostate thinking.

of course we challenge this with our knowledge of watch tower teaching and history, but they still fail to get the clue.

they are caught in the mend-controlling of the watch tower and accept without facts in evidence the label placed on us of apostates.. what are the facts that prove the watch tower is a fraud?

Moxy

uh-oh, more prophecy joel? i think you should define up-front what you mean by 'within our lifetime' - is this applying to people old enough to understand the events of our times or would it apply to babies too?

mox

13

Awake exploits family tragedy ....

by dedalus in

jw
friends

by now most here have read the terrible story of a pregnant witness, theresa giarrano, who was murdered for her unborn child.

the story appeared in vogue magazine shortly after the events took place; it is only now, 10 months later, that the awake (july 22, 2001 issue) has published anything about this tragedy.

though the story is "as told by" theresa's father, james giarrano, it is such a twisted piece of exploitation that i can only believe a ghost writer or collaborator is behind it.

Moxy

this is an interesting article and interesting comments, dedalus. i'll look forward to going thru it myself.

i like the expression about homogenization of these life-stories. like, did every one of these contributors decide unanimously that the best format to use for their story was:

"i was in this perilous/bizarre/humourous situation that makes for a good attention-getting first paragraph. how did i come to be in this situation? read on, despite the type size getting smaller and there being less attention-grabbing content in the paragraph just finished, i promise to get to the situation i just mentioned by about the third page. after i get thru the basic boring facts of my life and ministry up to that point, that is."

there's obviously a lot of coaching and editing that goes on. however, i would not be too quick to attribute the expressions of the father in this article to propogandist-minded editors. (not that you were.) it sounds to me very much like the type of insular, clinical thinking that people in such tragic points in their life use to protect themselves from the reality of the pain. its that kind of protection from pain that makes me and many others so reluctant to disturb the faith of other JWs when they're not looking for or ready for answers yet. imagine how traumatic an experience it would be for this father, assuming the sentiments of the article to be genuine, if his own personal watchtower-provided armor came crumbling away from him.

i also thought this point in the conclusion was incredibly interesting, though you didnt comment on it:

Jonathan is determined to raise Oscar to love and serve Jehovah, and Vicki and I will assist him in every way possible. It is our heartfelt desire to be on hand in God's new world to welcome Theresa back and introduce her to the son that she did not get to hold in her arms.

wont this be kind of a bittersweet reunion, according to the WT understanding? the child will probably have a new mother, her husband's new and eternal wife. what kind of role could theresa have in the life of her child if she is no longer able to be a family member?

mox

12

Do YOU know how to WAIT?

by Roamingfeline in

jw
friends

this is the title of an article in the sept 1, 2000 watchtower, which a jw brought to my door this morning.

my husband answered, and it was very apparent that the woman was brand new to door-to-door work, and her companion was encouraging her.

it was saturday "push the mags" day, and so hubby asked if she had any technical mags... he loves to play with them when they come to the door.

Moxy

for shame. placing magazines that are 9 months old??

"it's still valuable spiritual food."
"the truth doesn't have a shelf-life."
"someone once got the Truth from a magazine several years old."
"the magazines never go out-of-date."

yes, they do. that's why they have a date at the top. working with publishers who had no qualms about using old, ratty magazines from last year or worse were so embarassing. by the way, the society actually discourages this. its just not mentioned very often and the notion that old magazines are just as valuable as new ones prevails at the congregational level.

the 'Waiting' article was certainly one of the odder cover series in recent memory. how much can you say about the topic of waiting? theres actually a box of tips, including: 'bring something to read' and 'plan your schedule so you dont have to wait as long' and many others. real ground-breaking stuff. one of those cover articles that no publisher with any measure of self-respect would actually try to FEATURE. the awake becomes the featured article by default. that happens more often of late it seems, or worse even, neither is a presentable subject.

mox