I love the third one. He's basically bragging that he deceives the householders. He claims that he's conducting a study "using just the bible," but in reality he is still using the book... he just has it memorized so the householder doesn't see it. Then later he shows them: "See? You thought we were just using the bible, but we were really using this book!"
Posts by fugue
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19Less literature for Field Service means more Bible usage...
by Alfred ini recently asked my jw elder brother (who thinks i'm just "inactive") what he makes of the reduction in pages of the wt & awake rags.... his response was something like:.
well this was something that has been discussed for a long time.
the society feels that the brothers need to start using the bible more in field service so they are slowly reducing the pages of the literature to encourage the brothers to read the bible more and not depend so much on the literature.
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19
Less literature for Field Service means more Bible usage...
by Alfred ini recently asked my jw elder brother (who thinks i'm just "inactive") what he makes of the reduction in pages of the wt & awake rags.... his response was something like:.
well this was something that has been discussed for a long time.
the society feels that the brothers need to start using the bible more in field service so they are slowly reducing the pages of the literature to encourage the brothers to read the bible more and not depend so much on the literature.
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fugue
There's a thread over on JWTalk where they're explaining why they MUST use literature, not just the bible.
B:
"I only read the Bible, I don't need your literature."
I meet people who say that. You probably do to. But how do you handle it?
I envision this conversation:
Do you go to church?
Yes!
Does your pastor give you a sermon?
Yes!
In that sermon I suppose he gives experiences, illustrations and explanations of scriptures.
Yes!
If he wrote his sermon on paper would you read it?
You see where I'm going with this.
I don't want to insult the HH but want him/her to think about how they learned what they know about the Bible.
Thus giving them a new outlook on Bible literature.
What do you think?H:
I too have experienced the no literature defence.
It is a great way to sharpen your brain because once you have tucked the magazine back into the folder, (make sure Hh eyes follow) it is time to do as they have asked. Just use the Bible. Be sure to leave a Qu to call back on next visit. That kind of person often turns out to be a good r/v. Iron sharpens iron.T:
Yeah, I have started a few studies this way. I look at chapter one and pick out the verses and reasoning and use just that. Then after a few weeks I ask if they enjoyed their study - ONLY from the Bible. If yes - I show them the book and show that - we have been just following it ALL along. That is why this is called a BIBLE study. I have had a few continue from there, but they too have fizzled ...
To date - I have not had a person who started out this way progress to baptism. I am still hopeful. At some point they have to accept the slave (Matt 25: 34-41 ) or ... (Matt 25: 41-46 ) A:
My dad, when he was at pioneer school a few years ago, said the CO suggested that they use the bible more and the literature less. There may be a time we don't have our literature, so using the bible only is a good idea.
It's good practice to start that now. I think with the smaller mags, less pages, there will be less articles to discuss, so we may have to use our bible more. Think it's awesome! I need to work on it, but I am hoping that I can just use the bible when I speak to others eventually. It would be awesome, imo, to just teach from the bible and not be dependent on our literature.H:
My congr. had that advice from our Co in the mid 90's. Hubby and I both a/pioneered for months using the Bible only He carried a range of tracts in his suit pocket as a surprise and it worked.
People saw us arrive up their garden paths without our tell-tale bags and we gave them quite the shock (and they said so) because they thought we were somebody else. Most people gave us generous time and opinion because we were not 'armed to the teeth '. . we got a fine study out of it and that couple are still in the Truth today.
We are in a different congr. now and publishers often use the simple tack . . leave the bag and use the Bible only . . you can't fail.
Experience from our Field Service Overseer . . he was doing the Bible only method when the husband & wife thanked him for the good converstaion and Bible texts . . when FSO asked for a time to return he noticed a sign on the verandah saying no religious callers . . the couple explained that they don't mind if he returned . .that sign is there for The Watchtower people.
Makes you think . .M:
In the past, I've shown people the story in Acts of the Ethiopian Eunuch. He was reading Isaiah by himself. Philip asked him if he understood what he was reading, and the Eunuch said: "How could I, unless someone explained it to me?" So Philip sat with him and explained it. Then I've told the householder that I am like the Ethiopian Eunuch. I read the Bible by itself, and it speaks to me... but I can't fully understand it without someone to explain it. That's what our literature does. It sits with us, just like Philip, and explains what we are reading. Note that Philip's explanation never REPLACED the Eunuch's reading of Isaiah, it simply supplemented it. That's the role that Bible literature plays in my life, and that's why I'd like to share it with you, too.
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Bullet list of major (recent) changes
by RN init is with great interest that i recently read ceders article on the decline of the wts.
his article along with many of the comments really drives home just how many major changes there have been in a fairly short peroid of time.. somewhere in the recent past i could swear that someone had posted a bullet list of major changes with the corresponding year.
when i saw this (or something like it) my first thought was that this simple list made it all the more shocking; and since i have searched and cannot find anything like it.. so i dug around and started one of my own, please feel free to add/corrects events.
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fugue
@slimboyfat:
I don't know what anyone else has seen about Gilead changing. This was in the Kingdom Ministry just 5 months ago:*** km 10/11 p. 6 Are You Learning All You Can From Jehovah? ***
Watchtower Bible School of Gilead
• Purpose: To train pioneers and other full-time servants for missionary service.
• Duration: Five months.
• Location: Watchtower Educational Center, Patterson, New York, U.S.A.
• Qualifications: Married couples who are baptized for three years and are between 21 and 38 years of age when submitting their first application. They must speak English, be married for at least two years, and be currently in full-time service at least two years without interruption. Applicants must be in good health. Pioneers serving in a foreign country (including those with missionary status); traveling overseers; Bethel family members; and past graduates of the Ministerial Training School, the Bible School for Single Brothers, and the Bible School for Christian Couples may also apply if they meet the qualifications.
• How to Apply: In selected branches, a meeting for those interested in this school is held at the district convention. Further information is supplied during this meeting. If there is no meeting at conventions in your land and you would like to apply, you may write your branch office for further information.Maybe I'm missing something, but that sounds like Gilead is still going strong. Anyone else?
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Bullet list of major (recent) changes
by RN init is with great interest that i recently read ceders article on the decline of the wts.
his article along with many of the comments really drives home just how many major changes there have been in a fairly short peroid of time.. somewhere in the recent past i could swear that someone had posted a bullet list of major changes with the corresponding year.
when i saw this (or something like it) my first thought was that this simple list made it all the more shocking; and since i have searched and cannot find anything like it.. so i dug around and started one of my own, please feel free to add/corrects events.
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fugue
Before 2007, the wt taught that the 144,000 had been "sealed" in 1935. If this had been the case, then the number of anointed left on earth would have continually declined. But that hasn't happened. So:
- 2007 - we can not know when the calling of the 144,000 ends.
*** w07 5/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
"it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends."(This change was clearly a reaction by the wtbts to the highly inconvenient increase in the number of partakers.)
A further "refinement in understanding" came in 2011.
- 2011 - it's not important to know how many anointed are left on earth;
and, a related refinement from the same article:
- 2011 - some memorial partakers have a "mental or emotional imbalance" and thus are mistaken
*** w11 8/15 p. 22 Questions From Readers ***
A number of factors—including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance—might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know. -
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Bullet list of major (recent) changes
by RN init is with great interest that i recently read ceders article on the decline of the wts.
his article along with many of the comments really drives home just how many major changes there have been in a fairly short peroid of time.. somewhere in the recent past i could swear that someone had posted a bullet list of major changes with the corresponding year.
when i saw this (or something like it) my first thought was that this simple list made it all the more shocking; and since i have searched and cannot find anything like it.. so i dug around and started one of my own, please feel free to add/corrects events.
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fugue
The list of blood products that they will accept has been changed quite a number of times.
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Bullet list of major (recent) changes
by RN init is with great interest that i recently read ceders article on the decline of the wts.
his article along with many of the comments really drives home just how many major changes there have been in a fairly short peroid of time.. somewhere in the recent past i could swear that someone had posted a bullet list of major changes with the corresponding year.
when i saw this (or something like it) my first thought was that this simple list made it all the more shocking; and since i have searched and cannot find anything like it.. so i dug around and started one of my own, please feel free to add/corrects events.
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fugue
00DAD: The Overlapping Generation change came in 2010, not 2008: In the Watchtower 2010 April 15 issue, the generation doctrine was changed in an attempt to reintroduce urgency.
Actually the "overlapping generations" idea did first surface in 2008.
*** w08 2/15 p. 25 Christ’s Presence—What Does It Mean to You? ***
The word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event. For example, Exodus 1:6 tells us: “Eventually Joseph died, and also all his brothers and all that generation.” Joseph and his brothers varied in age, but they shared a common experience during the same time period. Included in “that generation” were some of Joseph’s brothers who were born before him. Some of these outlived Joseph. (Gen. 50:24) Others of “that generation,” such as Benjamin, were born after Joseph was born and may have lived on after he died.
So when the term “generation” is used with reference to people living at a particular time, the exact length of that time cannot be stated except that it does have an end and would not be excessively long. Therefore, by using the term “this generation,” as recorded at Matthew 24:34, Jesus did not give his disciples a formula to enable them to determine when “the last days” would end. Rather, Jesus went on to emphasize that they would not know “that day and hour.”—2 Tim. 3:1; Matt. 24:36. -
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Eschatology of Jehovah's Witnesses - wikipedia
by Band on the Run ini read this article last night.
it was confusing.
the parade of dates long before i was born 1790, 1876, 1914, a whole profusio of them with backtracking and sorry excuses was mind boggling, even for one raised a witness.
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fugue
I just started looking at the Talk section. This jumped out at me:
I added the neutrality tag to this article because I noticed several statements sourced by Crisis of Conscienceand other books by ex-member Raymond Franz. He is not a reliable source, at least not in the way he is being used here, as his books deal entirely with attacks on the religion. Source these statements with official Watchtower information or historical records or remove them. --Iron Chef (talk) 19:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
You can almost be assured that Iron Chef has not bothered to read a single word from either of Ray Franz's TWO books (not "other books"... he only wrote Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom.) Instead, Iron Chef (who I'm guessing is a diligent little jdub) has been told that Ray Franz's books are "entirely attacks on the religion." That's quite a mischaracterization.
Also, if he HAD in fact looked at Crisis of Conscience, he would know that the book is FULL of "official Watchtower information and historical records."
Silly dub.
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Definitions for JW words
by socstu indoes the watchtower have some sort of dictionary for people to consult for words they use such as publisher, ministry, pioneer.. just wondering as i don't wanna just say what my version of those words mean if they aren't exactly true..
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fugue
Farkel's list has a lot of sarcasm and satire. Here's a list that is a more serious attempt to define "jw-ese":
That page is a little bit dated. Some terms, like "Presiding Overseer," have changed recently. But for the most part it's a pretty thorough glossary.
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Blood transfusion DF/DA
by allyouneedislove ini was reading the following page:.
http://ajwrb.org/currentwtpolicy/callingsociety.htm.
can a jw still be df or da for taking a blood transfusion, if they are not "repentant"?.
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fugue
This was at the heart of the wt's deception in Bulgaria. The Bulgarian government didn't like that the witnesses sanctioned members based on their choice of medical treatment. So the wtbts deceptively changed their rules. Unrepentantly receiving a blood transfusion became an indication that the person was "disassociating himself." This allowed the wtbts to tell Bulgaria: No, we do NOT sanction anyone for their choice of medical treatment. (Of course, the end resut is still the same... if a person was found to unrepentantly accept blood, he would be announced as "no longer one of jw's.")
Pre-Bulgaria blood policy:
*** w61 1/15 p. 63 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers
? In view of the seriousness of taking blood into the human system by a transfusion, would violation of the Holy Scriptures in this regard subject the dedicated, baptized receiver of blood transfusion to being disfellowshiped from the Christian congregation?
The inspired Holy Scriptures answer yes.
...
If, however, he refuses to acknowledge his nonconformity to the required Christian standard and makes the matter an issue in the Christian congregation and endeavors to influence others therein to his support; or, if in the future he persists in accepting blood transfusions or in donating blood toward the carrying out of this medical practice upon others, he shows that he has really not repented, but is deliberately opposed to God’s requirements. As a rebellious opposer and unfaithful example to fellow members of the Christian congregation he must be cut off therefrom by disfellowshiping.Post-Bulgaria blood policy:
(From the 2010 elder's manual):
Willingly and unrepentantly taking blood.
If someone willingly takes blood, perhaps because
of being under extreme pressure, the committee
should obtain the facts and detennine
the indjvidual's attitude. If he is repentant, the
committee would provide spiritual assistance in
the spirit of Galatians 6: 1 and Jude 22, 23. Since
he is spiritually weak, he would not qualify for
special privileges for a period of time, and it may
be necessary to remove certain basic privileges.
Depending on the circumstances, the committee
nlay also need to arrange for an announcement
to the congregation: "'The elders have
handled a matter having to do with [name
of person]. You will be glad to know that
spiritual shepherds are endeavoring to render
assistance." On the other hand, if the elders
on the committee determine that he is
unrepentant, they should announce his disassociation.It's just a shell game by the wtbts. They will lie and even rewrite their policies to suit their own needs. Cult.
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desensitization from the Jehovah's witnesses
by Star tiger in.
this may be a different way of exit from the jehovah's mentality, for me it should work, first i want to try all the things that were verbotent to them, slowly at first a piece of black pudding, then donating blood, you see the progression.. then a little more flagrant in the laws, buying a pack of tarot cards, reading them and so on.. does anyone think that's a reasonable way of beginning to destroy the subconcious methods of programming, also i am very ocd so any way of destroying the jehovahs witnesses mindset is fraught with potential new ways of worrying me!.
star tiger.
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fugue
I've done it, too. I was a born-in, so I never experienced anything in the world. Spent time as an elder, pioneer, etc. Finally saw the flaws in the borg and disassociated at age 41. In the year and a half that I've been out, I've done some desensitizing, too. And I've done it for the exact reason you gave. It has been a way of forcibly breaking my subconscious resistance to breaking the wt's rules.
The night my DA letter was read, I planted an American Flag in the front yard. I now smoke, even though I know it's a harmful and stupid habit. I have watched The Exorcist, Paranormal Activity, and several other "demonic" movies. I went to a fortune teller and had my palms read, plus had my tarot cards read. I registered to vote. I've donated blood as frequently as I'm able to. I participated in a Catholic mass (even though I'm atheist now.) I've done all of the holidays. My house had the most Christmas lights of any house on my block. (My neighbors were probably like... wtf?? Since when do we have to compete with THAT guy???)
One thing I haven't done is fuck around, but that's because I love and respect my wife. If I wasn't married to her, I would do whatever the fuck I wanted to do.
Basically, I look at it this way: I gave the first half of my life to the lies of the washtowel under the guise of worshipping j-ho. I am dedicating the second half of my life to disrespecting j-ho in any way I can.
) or ... (Matt 25: 41-46 
)