Posts by mustang

46

WTBTS Innocent in Swaggart Case?

by troubled in

jw
friends

awhile back, i saw information on another web site about the wtbts's involvement with the swaggart case.

the information was presented in a way that depicted the wtbts as involved with the swaggart case and, therefore, false religion.. at first, i was shocked.

however, i did some research on what an amicus curie is.

mustang

Yes, troubled,

your 'take' on the law is essentially correct. As another pointed out, many a curious turn of affairs is done for legal necessity. That is understandable, and easily forgiven or accepted if properly addressed and dealt with by explanation. The sin of omission was mentioned and there you have it.

Not only did WTS 'sleep with the enemy' (in the views of some), but they did the sin of omission by not telling the true and in-depth reasons. They furthered the hypocrisy by capitalizing on it with the hype about the new 'donation arrangement'.

The next chapter of the hypocrisy is that the WTS continued its doctrine on Interfaith and continued to denounce any 'consorting with the enemy'. While entering the Swaggart case for this reason was a debatable case of Interfaith, they chose the devious path, instead of coming clean. In the meantime, Brother Joe Dub gets disciplined for mowing that Church lawn.

Call it the 'sin of omission, if you will, but it is still the living of a lie.

You see, troubled, somewhere between 'half past Russell' and 'half-past Rutherford', the WTS made some real tall statements. Frankly, those statements are proving to be an order that is too tall to fill. Unfortunately, the GB got into the habit of continuing this practice. They further perpetuated these errors by throwing humility out the window. Instead of taking the proper route and acknowledging some indiscretions, the GB took the prideful way out and sticks these doubtful policies out, to the bitter end.

'Pride goeth before a fall'. Tumble, tumble.

Mustang

29

Newbie in the house

by Stealth in

jw
friends

i have been lurking for a few months now.

the only reason that i have not posted until now is because of the paranoia that comes with being raised a jw.

my current status in the congregation is irregular, reaching out for the office of inactive.

mustang

Welcome Stealth,

Glad to see that you are 'reaching out'; fortunately, in the better direction. It certainly would not seem so as a 'start-up JW', but in the later stages of metamorphosis that changes.

Having achieved 25+ years of inactivity, I welcome you on your path. My inactivity peaks in the downward direction from being a pioneer.

You may want to consider becoming a FENCE-SITTER. This would allow you to stay near that gaggle of relatives.

First, you inform yourself, your personal YOU, that I DON'T DO DOCTRINE (WINDOWS ARE OPTIONAL). You may or may not want to proclaim that fact; but inwardly, you must face this.

Next, you might want to consider purposely succumbing to MATERIALISM. This is a pleasant way to go. Actually, no one has been killed by materialism, unlike some claims you may hear. Materialism is definitely an advanced sign of the proper 'reaching out'. The beauty of doing materialism is that it is so easy to customize and 'make your own'.

Materialism is an easy way to coexist with the dyed-in-the-wool dubs.

You might have trouble w/ an In-Yer-Face Dub, particularly if it is an Elder, but nodding and saying yes at the right time does wonders. If a commitment is required, get real wishy-washy. "That's interesting', "good point, brother" and "I'll think about that" are helpful responses. Smile, be noncommittal and pour the good brother another drink, while you are getting ready for your 2nd shift w/ overtime job.

Mention all your debts and put the touch on him for a loan.

Taking a job with lots of travel helps, too.

Whining about your plight in life gets great mileage, here. The pushier they get, the more you whine.

Go to the token meeting, as an appeasement. Wear a beeper, have yourself paged and leave early. (Phony beepers are available for just this purpose.)

If all else fails, move (several times).

You may have more fun doing it this way than a knock-down drag-out doctrinal fight.

Cheers, good luck (said on purpose) and welcome abroad.

Mustang
Fence-Sitter the great

3

Off the wall thought

by El Kabong in

jw
friends

this just popped into my head today while stuck in traffic.. look at this picture of bill gates.... .

this guy looks like the perfect ms... can't you just see him conducting a book study.... i gotta stop drinking so much coffee...

mustang

MS: you mean Mini-Servant? Bill wouldn't go for it, he has to have the whole pie. He would want to be ALL of the GB. LOL.

What the hell, start him out as a book study conductor.

Mustang

37

Ugly Clothes is it a rule???

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

ok last post before me and my pillow get together.

so what is the dress code of jw.

i notice a lot of long skirts, and dresses.

mustang

Tattoo,

Since I haven't been to a meeting in 25 years, I'll not comment on the ladies apparel. But I am up to date on the gent's wear.

For the past 3 or 4 weeks, 2 Dubs have been holding 2 hour long sessions with one of the neighbors in the driveway directly out my front door & across the street.

Same old white shirt, tie, suit jacket, SHINED & POLISHED wingtips (I used to get 'gigs' on that) and leather bookbag.

Yes it is a rule. The uniform is set.

As Pubsinger said, I would take a while to find my suit. BTW, I just got through working in a place where the entertainment industry was the client. Our dress code was 'YOU HAVE TO WEAR CLOTHES'. So my original work attire has gone from dress slacks, short sleeve pin-striped shirt and loafers (optionally slightly polished) to baggy cotton dockers, pullover knit shirt and sandals. (Oops, steel-toed shoes required on the factory floor.) And I cross the line in and out of management!!

You too can go full circle, so enjoy the ride.

Mustang
Cheers

9

koine greek

by battman in

jw
friends

i am looking for an online reference dictionary that.

would assist in translating koine greek words into.

english.

mustang

NOt exactly what you asked for, but give this a try:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/

The original language (Greek, whatever) comes up in one of the options.

Mustang
Hope this helps

11

Society to Publishers: Shut Up!

by metatron in

jw
friends

latest propaganda from the borg (wt.sept 1, 2001, pg.15).

"suppose, though, that we personally have been the.

victim of a perceived injustice.

mustang

Metatron,

Yup, classic WTS style.

Something happens in the congo, pray and keep it quiet. It blows over and you are shut up.

You do something wrong, you're DF'd. It blows over and you are shut up.

You appeal, but those are loaded against you. That blows over and you are shut up.

You DA, you say about a one-liner and you're gone. (I know, many write small books, but who sees them: 1 or 2 Olders & that's it.) That blows over and you are shut up.

You sue after the DF'ing and you find that the 'Church Law' provisions give you next to no recourse. (Hmm, could be there is something do-able on that score.) That blows over and you are shut up.

You 'drift away' and they got you again. You aren't going to raise a ruckus. (Or are you?) That blows over and you are shut up.

The WTS states on that public info website with the FAQ's that 'ones who quietly leave are left alone' or something to that effect. That blows over and you are shut up.

See the pattern?

Mustang

3

Do you need to study bad grammar?

by voltaire in

jw
friends

one of my favorite arguments by the society: you don't need to study evolution, read apostate literature or anything else that contradicts what we say, just as you wouldn't study incorrect grammar in order to learn correct grammar.

i can't believe i ever fell for it.

(in my defense, i was practically raised around the meetings.

mustang

My significant other is Chinese. She has two degrees, one from an Asian school and the other from a US university. Her native country was a British colony and she went to "English school" from before her teens. She is constantly asking me to check her grammar. (She recently surprised by getting something right the first time. It was short, though.) Even though she is very well educated AND actually exposed to English (but not necessarily 'American'), she still needs help.

SHE CERTAINLY DOES NOT KNOW IT INTUITIVELY. The same holds for all the other Chinese that I have met who were not born here in the states. They all ask for help with their US grammar, no matter how well educated. I am always happy to help them.

The assumption that we all (extend that to everyone) know these things INTUITIVELY is extremely wrong. We Americans happen to have had intense education in the subject of our version of English. Just compare this to someone who didn't have such training. I experience this every day.

(In fairness, I am on my 8th year of 1st year Mandarin. Those who speak Cantonese are impressed, LOL. I doubt that I will ever get the proficiency that I would like to have. I DEFINITELY have to spend time studying how I did it wrong. In fact, I will have achieved a great step forward when I can spot wrong speech.)

I find that having grown up with this speech, a great deal is ingrained in me (and the rest of us). I can almost always inherently point out correct usage. I remember diagramming sentences and learning all of the parts of speech as an elementary school student. The rudimentary technical details were put before; we could have gone further, just for the asking. But I have forgotten much of the detail of technical linguistics. We all had some of that pounded into us as students; we just usually don't remember it very well.

I am very technically inclined in engineering subjects (so is she). So I find myself looking up some of the technical aspect of the languages (English and other) after one of these sessions.

I agree that study of the 'wrongness' of a subject is a necessary part of the method of doing it right. You need to see both sides of the issue. You indeed have made an excellent point.

You have made another excellent point in that the WTS does not use standard techniques of scholarship. Their decrying of higher education is a pointer to that. When you really go into studying any such subject, you find that there is a reason for the methods used by the scholars. Ridiculing or minimizing their method does not change the reason why scholarship is necessary.

This brings up the subject of what is the real expertise of JW's. It certainly isn't the English language or linguistics. (WTS has learned to deal with these subjects out of necessity.) Voltaire has made that point plainly. What they are really expert at (their core competency) is psychological indoctrination techniques. I originally included religion in the preceding sentence, but I believe that is secondary to the psychological warfare process.

Mustang

10

Mi Familia

by lisaBObeesa in

jw
friends

dear friends,.

i have come a long way from when i was 18 years old and fresh out of my parents house and the borg.

i went throught stages...so many stages... of recovery.

mustang

Interesting thought on this:

My brother still attends meetings but that is it. He goes with his family. I haven't done anything for 25+ years: inactive fence-sitter and proud of it!!! My sister & her husband are full-bore, do-it-all Dubs.

So, my Rutherford-ite, In Yer Face Dub Dad wants to unilaterally make up with me, while cursing my brother all the way! (Like you, I don't understand the personal rift, there.)

I led the way in boycotting Dad: read that 'reverse shunning'. My brother followed suit after Dad redoubled the pressure on him. Soon after that my sister (seemingly doing everything to please him) couldn't take his interference with her family life and quit talking to him. That leaves my brother-in-law as the only one to communicate with Dad.

Anyway, we did it to him, in self defense. It was actually suggested by the 'Olders' that we simply avoid interaction with him. He is a known trouble-maker, but an old 'pillar of the community' JW-wise. He started the local congregations, 50 years ago.

I feel that he should have been DF'd years ago, but when it's really needed, THEY MISS THAT ONE BY A MILE. (In an unusual tact, the 'Olders' all backed off, apparently roped us all off and declared it 'a family matter'. The family is a mixture of status, good to indifferent to "1000's of miles away".)

What I am going to suggest (and it is only a suggestion) is to 'do it by the numbers'. You apparently talk to both your brother and mother. You have solace and peace with the rest of your family. In fact, you are probably a great comfort to them. You should continue that.

You are able to 'walk into all camps', based on a technicality. You never committed to something that the other three did.

Your sister is the one that is doing the harsh thing. You are extending the 'olive branch' and supporting her. This actually encourages her. I'm not sure that continuing to interface with her is in the best interest of all concerned.

What we have here is that she is punishing the relatives by NOT EXERCISING THE OPTION to speak to them for family business.

Ever notice how 'legalistic' all this stuff is? The WTS is first and foremost just that: 'legalistic'. It appears more and more that that is more important than scriptural concerns.

Anyway, your sister is not entirely technically correct according to WTS. It is my understanding, (correct me if I am wrong) that SHE HAS THE OPTION of speaking to the mother (or even the brother). She is not allowed to discuss spiritual matters. (Someone noted recently an 'Older' who spent a vacation with all his DF'd children and declared it family business.)

My point is that I doubt that you will suffer as much by backing off from your sister, as your mother & brother are suffering. Your sister, voluntarily doing an unloving thing, needs some attention (or lack of attention) directed her way. You can even point out that she is not doing the loving thing by electing the harsher course of action. What she is doing is not strictly required by WTS, though some local Olders may push it.

And throw that nonsense about 'we are doing this harsh action to them for their own good' out the window. All that amounts to is an excuse for inflicting some self-gratifying punishment to someone.

And, in anticipation of hearing the moral condemnation of 'you will be no better than they are', I say HAH!!! So what? I'm in a bad situation and need to deal with it. Such platitudes only make you the victim of dangerous people by holding you in a state of inaction.

Mustang
Peace and best wishes

75

Oh May We Ever Live Up To Our Chosen Name!

by Englishman in

jw
friends

there are some really weird and interesting names on this site.

just out of interest, lets swap details of how we selected our chosen "stage name", it could be fun!.

i chose "englishman" when i first started to lurk at h20.

mustang

Englishman,

Good idea. Thanks. It would have been a good, but probably futile guessing game, in my case.

Mustang could be about cars, i.e. the now perennial Ford Mustang. But its not.

It could be about airplanes, i.e. the North American P-51 Mustang fighter. I happen to have the original plans for this machine, as my ex-business partner left them to me. His Dad was a test pilot for NA & gave him a set of drawings for a birthday present. He was working on a replica when he died. I am a pilot and have worked in aerospace, but this isn't the one, either.

It could be about the wild horses running free, but it isn't, exactly.

Growing up, I always wanted to be a scientist. Fat chance, as a JW kid, right? I studied everything that I could on the subject, but ended up with little real prospects of higher education. Due to the traditional JW lack of support for higher education, I missed the prime window for schooling. Ideally, that is just after high school, with support from family and those around you. This is important, as once you start some sort of job that will become your career, finding time to go back to school is difficult.

I pioneered for some length of time. Then I began the slow driftaway. That was pretty successful, except for my Dad's tracking me down.

Over the years, I studied what I needed at the moment, but being on my own, I never properly finished school. I am one of those who needed the advantage of the home environment for that, I suppose.

However, I got my first job in industry as an aerospace technician. A promotion here, there and regularly led me into more involved technical duties. Programming school got me into the computer industry. One thing lead to another, and suddenly I looked around with Engineer on my title. My experience and piecemeal study was working. That job was successful and so were the rest of them. Soon, it was Senior Engineer and even Principal Engineer.

By dint of immense private study, some actual school/higher education and ap-plication of practical experience, I made it!!! I found out that Engineers can get paid better than scientists, anyway.

But how about the name? The US Marine Corp has a term for an officer who 'came up through the ranks'. That is an experienced person who didn't do the normal school system thing. They send them to their own school, of course, but these people did it the hard way.

They are called MUSTANGs!!!!

So my handle/screen name/call sign is a tribute to SUCCESS IN SPITE OF THE JERKS IN BROOKLYN!!!

Mustang

21

New! Hello! Question???

by MadApostate in

jw
friends

i apologize if this has been previously covered, but i'm new here, and i couldn't find what i'm looking for.. can some of the recent convention attendees please tell me what is the theme of the upcoming fall circuit assemblies?.

i "walked away" around 1988, and i have not kept up with current jw events.

can someone explain the yearly schedule/names of conventions/assemblies.

mustang

Hello, MadA-one!!!

Welcome aboard. I can't help you w/ the theme, I've been gone 'way longer than you have, LOL. 'I survived 1975' madness.

I view myself as an extremely inactive, materialistic fence-sitter.
I might irk some people because 'I don't do doctrine'. Anonymously, I'll talk about how screwed up things are.

Thanks for asking those questions, I was just extrapolating on the SAD's myself.

Again, welcome aboard.

Mustang