wannabefree, I would be interesting in assisting in composing any letters, please PM me if you need help on this...
Posts by cedars
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14Who wants to do a letter writing campaign to the borg?
by Jez inreading the amazing information about what a cult is, got me thinking....there are thousands of ppl here, why don't we do a letter writing campaign to the society, bombarding them with letters outlining things like the cult attachment to jw's, disfellowshipping, 1914, un, anything that we would like to see admitted or changed?
outline what changes we think would be useful and necessary.
we could then post the letters that they send back here to let others know how they reply.
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Higher education - looking for quots!
by freetosee ini dont have the wt cd.
does anyone have wt quots for me?.
thank you!
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cedars
If you want the very latest quote on higher education and how evil it is, visit my post based on the latest Watchtower article:
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Dec 15th WT: "Be like Solomon and don't go to university / don't be like Solomon and join a sports team!"
by cedars inthanks to 'gayle' for bringing our attention to the fact that the december 15th watchtower has now been uploaded to jw.org.
it doesn't take long to reach the first juicy bit on pages 8 and 9, this time regarding higher education:.
it would be good to ask, am i taking to heart solomons example of treasuring divine wisdom?
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cedars
FranklinMassey - you raise a good point. I have no idea why the "untruths" thing is in there, and reading the article it isn't obvious that there are any trenchant lessons in the life of Solomon that would effect one's attitude towards honesty. I'm not sure what they're getting at...
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* Some names have been changed.
by cedars ini just thought i would flag this as something i have long despised about the magazines, since long before i made the decision to distance myself emotionally from the the organization.
this isn't a big deal or anything, and ranks way down on my list of concerns about the society, but i felt it was worth mentioning nonetheless.. as you will know, frequently in the magazines an experience will be quoted (portrayed as being real, although we are often left wondering whether it is), and in such an experience a name will be mentioned followed by an asterisk (*) which leads to a footnote which reads "some names have been changed.".
out of interest, i went on my 2010 watchtower library and typed in "some names have been changed", and found that this footnote had been repeated no less than 69 times between 1994 and 2010 (39 times in the watchtower, and 30 times in the awake).
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cedars
I just thought I would flag this as something I have long despised about the magazines, since long before I made the decision to distance myself emotionally from the the organization. This isn't a big deal or anything, and ranks way down on my list of concerns about the Society, but I felt it was worth mentioning nonetheless.
As you will know, frequently in the magazines an experience will be quoted (portrayed as being real, although we are often left wondering whether it is), and in such an experience a name will be mentioned followed by an asterisk (*) which leads to a footnote which reads "Some names have been changed."
Out of interest, I went on my 2010 Watchtower Library and typed in "some names have been changed", and found that this footnote had been repeated no less than 69 times between 1994 and 2010 (39 times in the Watchtower, and 30 times in the Awake). Quite why the Society have only been using this particular phrase since 1994 is as inexplicable to me as why they thought it would be appropriate to use it in the first place.
Call me old fashioned, but either a person is happy for his or her name to be revealed in the magazines, or they aren't. If they aren't happy, wouldn't it be better for the magazine to say something like "one brother who wishes to remain anonymous had this experience..." or something like that. It may not flow as nicely as saying "Jimmy had this experience..." but at least it will be FACTUAL!!!
Here's a quote from the beginning of the 2011 Yearbook in which the Society declare their mandate towards the truthfulness of their material:
"In summary, the Writing Department insists on using only material that is accurate and truthful, even regarding seemingly insignificant details. As a result, "the faithful and discreet slave" can consistently supply spiritual food that brings honor to "the God of truth"."
The above quote, by the way, is copied and pasted from a thread that was posted by jwfacts regarding a more disturbing breach of this self-proclaimed benchmark of honesty.
My point is that surely, in the context of an "experience", the name of the main protagonist might constitute a "seemingly insignificant detail", however it isn't just omitted, it is replaced with a fictional name! The Society would say that this practice is okay because they have covered themselves with the "Some names have been changed" footnote, but surely everything contained in the magazines should aim to be factual from the outset? Can you imagine the chaos if bible writers had employed the same tactic? There would be more footnotes than actual verses!
Maybe this means it's okay for existing Witnesses to write candid letters of complaint to the Society without fear of reprisals, because they can substitute their real name for another name and pull the same trick with a footnote.
Maybe it's just me, let me know if it is and I will shut up about it once and for all....
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Bizarre 'Spirit anointed' v. 'Spirit appointed' explanation in Dec 15th WT
by cedars inhi everyone, i am going through the dec 15th study edition of the wt thanks to a tip-off that this issue is now available online at jw.org.. in the article "guided by god's spirit in the first century and today" on page 25 there is a bizarre argument put forward by the society about the difference between spirit-anointed and spirit-appointed.. this touches on a subject that i have often wondered about, which is this.
why are spirit anointed brothers and sisters (memorial partakers) not given positions of oversight in the congregation by default?
i know it sounds like a stupid question, but please think about it for a moment.
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cedars
Sapphy is quite right:
w075/1pp.30-31QuestionsFromReaders
In 1935 the “great crowd” of Revelation 7:9-15 was understood to be made up of “other sheep,” Christians with an earthly hope, who would appear on the world scene in “the last days” and who as a group would survive Armageddon. (John 10:16; 2 Timothy 3:1; Revelation 21:3, 4) After that year, the thrust of the disciple-making work turned to the gathering in of the great crowd. Hence, especially after 1966 it was believed that the heavenly call ceased in 1935. This seemed to be confirmed when almost all who were baptized after 1935 felt that they had the earthly hope. Thereafter, any called to the heavenly hope were believed to be replacements for anointed Christians who had proved unfaithful.
Without a doubt, if one of the anointed unrepentantly falls away, Jehovah does call another individual to take his place. (Romans 11:17-22) However, the number of genuine anointed ones who have become unfaithful is likely not large. On the other hand, as time has gone by, some Christians baptized after 1935 have had witness borne to them that they have the heavenly hope. (Romans 8:16, 17) Thus, it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends.
Interestingly the QfromR doesn't offer any explanation as to why it took them 82 years (from 1935 to 2007) to figure this out...
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Dec 15th WT: "Be like Solomon and don't go to university / don't be like Solomon and join a sports team!"
by cedars inthanks to 'gayle' for bringing our attention to the fact that the december 15th watchtower has now been uploaded to jw.org.
it doesn't take long to reach the first juicy bit on pages 8 and 9, this time regarding higher education:.
it would be good to ask, am i taking to heart solomons example of treasuring divine wisdom?
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cedars
Magwith - it does always seem to be the sisters that get singled out as having lustful designs on becoming "unevenly yoked", and never the brothers. Well noticed!
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Dec 15th WT: "Be like Solomon and don't go to university / don't be like Solomon and join a sports team!"
by cedars inthanks to 'gayle' for bringing our attention to the fact that the december 15th watchtower has now been uploaded to jw.org.
it doesn't take long to reach the first juicy bit on pages 8 and 9, this time regarding higher education:.
it would be good to ask, am i taking to heart solomons example of treasuring divine wisdom?
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cedars
Good point OnTheWayOut - the idea that Solomon is an examplary role model of one who abandoned materialism and put spiritual things first is so ludicrous it doesn't even need an explanation. How can anybody who led such an extravagant lifestyle be held aloft as a shining example of NOT making money and NOT trying to acquire financial security or accumulate wordly posessions??!
So are we to take Solomon's example to heart or use Solomon's course as a warning example???????????
I'm with you there. Either Solomon was a positive role-model, or a negative role-model. Make your mind up!
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Bizarre 'Spirit anointed' v. 'Spirit appointed' explanation in Dec 15th WT
by cedars inhi everyone, i am going through the dec 15th study edition of the wt thanks to a tip-off that this issue is now available online at jw.org.. in the article "guided by god's spirit in the first century and today" on page 25 there is a bizarre argument put forward by the society about the difference between spirit-anointed and spirit-appointed.. this touches on a subject that i have often wondered about, which is this.
why are spirit anointed brothers and sisters (memorial partakers) not given positions of oversight in the congregation by default?
i know it sounds like a stupid question, but please think about it for a moment.
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cedars
Hi everyone, I am going through the Dec 15th Study edition of the WT thanks to a tip-off that this issue is now available online at jw.org.
In the article "Guided by God's Spirit in the First Century and Today" on page 25 there is a bizarre argument put forward by the Society about the difference between spirit-anointed and spirit-appointed.
This touches on a subject that I have often wondered about, which is this. Why are spirit anointed brothers and sisters (memorial partakers) not given positions of oversight in the congregation by default? I know it sounds like a stupid question, but please think about it for a moment. Old Sister Wrinkly has been divinely selected on account of her unique qualities to serve in the heavenly office of king and priest over the ENTIRE EARTH at some future date, and yet she has absolutely no say in what goes on in her own congregation, let alone what goes on at an organizational level. Does this not strike anybody else as being slightly odd, or is it just my twisted mind playing tricks on me?!
The Society attempts to resolve my question with the following explanation on page 24:
“Now there are varieties of gifts, but there is the same spirit; and there are varieties of ministries, and yet there is the same Lord; and there are varieties of operations, and yet it is the same God who performs all the operations in all persons.” (1 Cor. 12:4-6, 11) Yes, holy spirit can operate in different ways on different servants of God for a purpose. Indeed, the holy spirit is available both to Christ’s “little flock” and to his “other sheep.” (Luke 12:32; John 10:16) Yet, it does not always operate in the same way on each member of the congregation.
Elders, for instance, are appointed by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28) But not all spirit anointed ones serve as overseers in the congregation. What are we to conclude from this? Simply that God’s spirit operates in different ways on members of the congregation.
Well that's about as clear as mud. So let me try to understand this. Spirit-anointed ones have been selected by Jehovah to rule the whole Earth in God's heavenly government, but not necessarily to serve in a position of oversight in a congregation of 100-or-so individuals, "simply because God's spirit operates in different ways"?! Okay... I think what I need here are some hard biblical examples, and a strong cup of coffee.
The spirit that instills in anointed ones “a spirit of adoption,” or a sense of sonship, is the same spirit by which Jehovah raised his only-begotten Son from the dead to immortal life in heaven. (Read Romans 8:11, 15.) It is the same spirit by which Jehovah brought the entire universe into existence. (Gen. 1:1-3) By that same holy spirit, Jehovah qualified Bezalel for special work on the tabernacle, empowered Samson to perform deeds requiring outstanding strength, and enabled Peter to walk on water. Let us, therefore, not confuse having God’s spirit with being anointed with God’s spirit, the latter being just one special operation of the spirit. Spirit anointing depends on God’s choice.
But hang on, didn't God directly appoint Bezalel to do craftwork on the tabernacle, and didn't he directly empower Samson to have his super Tarantino-style powers? Also, both of those examples cited were in the pre-Christian era and surely can't be used to distinguish the difference between so-called spirit-anointed and spirit-appointed ones in the Christian congregation?! The example of Peter walking on water demonstrates that God's spirit can be used in different ways, but it doesn't explain how Sister Wrinkly gets to help in ruling the whole earth but doesn't get a say in what goes on in her own congregation!
Another oddity in this article is the claim that the anointed are still being actively recruited by God's spirit. I may be behind with the latest light on this issue, but my Society education taught me that the anointed stopped being "gathered" in 1935 because there were none who left who could conceivably be of the anointed after that date, apart from those who were anointed as late replacements (or stand-ins) for anointed members who had died unfaithful. Completely blowing a hole in this understanding is the following statement:
God’s holy active force has been operating in various ways upon his faithful servants for as long as he has had faithful servants, yes, for thousands of years before spirit anointing began. At Pentecost 33 C.E., that new operation began, but it will not continue forever. Baptism with spirit will cease [i.e. it hasn't yet ended], but holy spirit will continue to operate on God’s people so that they may do his will for all eternity.
Well that's put me back at square one I'm afraid. Having read this latest Watchtower (hot off the press) am none the wiser on why anointed heavenly king/priests don't necessarily perform any role whatsoever in the organization today (unless they're one of the elite 7 members of the Governing Body of course), and whereas I thought I had a grip on the Society's "scriptural" claim that the anointed have stopped being anointed, it seems like God's spirit is now anointing people again like it's pre-1935!
Thoughts please?
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Dec 15th WT: "Be like Solomon and don't go to university / don't be like Solomon and join a sports team!"
by cedars inthanks to 'gayle' for bringing our attention to the fact that the december 15th watchtower has now been uploaded to jw.org.
it doesn't take long to reach the first juicy bit on pages 8 and 9, this time regarding higher education:.
it would be good to ask, am i taking to heart solomons example of treasuring divine wisdom?
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cedars
Thanks to 'Gayle' for bringing our attention to the fact that the December 15th Watchtower has now been uploaded to jw.org. It doesn't take long to reach the first juicy bit on pages 8 and 9, this time regarding higher education:
It would be good to ask, ‘Am I taking to heart Solomon’s example of treasuring divine wisdom?’ Economic uncertainties have moved many to concentrate on their job and finances or have influenced decisions about the type and amount of education to seek. What about you and your family? Do your choices indicate that you are treasuring and seeking divine wisdom?
It strikes me as more than a little odd that somebody like Solomon, arguably one of the wealthiest rulers of ancient times, should be held aloft as a shining example of financial frugality, or a scriptural role-model for dissuading young ones from the perils of seeking a good job or higher education.
The article, entitled "Is He A Good Example For You Or A Warning?", goes on to take another swipe at young ones who get involved in the evil that is 'extra-curricular sports'. Parallels are drawn between Solomon's bad decision to marry an Egyptian, and nefarious things in which young ones might get embroiled.
Will we let Solomon’s course be a warning example for us? A sister might attempt to rationalize forming a romantic link that ignores God’s directive to marry “only in the Lord.” (1 Cor. 7:39) With similar rationalizing, one might share in extracurricular sports or clubs at school, underreport taxable income, or tell untruths when asked to reveal actions that could be embarrassing.
I may have missed something here, but since when was playing for the school basketball team akin to breaking the command to "marry only in the lord" or, even tax evasion? This for me is yet another chapter in the Watch Tower Society's bizarre war on sports (see my earlier post), something that rattles me personally as it is without any scriptural foundation.
Thoughts please?
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WRM: Watchtower Resistance Movement
by ekruks inwhen france was invaded by the nazis, they established what was called the french resistance, which attacked the nazis.
the cause was to fight evil, so it was called a guerilla movement.
in each town, rebels would meet together secretly and sabotage the nazis, doing things such as blowing up railway lines, though they didn't attack civilians who were oppressed.. i don't see for us to fight the individuals in the organisation, because many of them are just misled, confused, brainwashed.
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cedars
I'm generally anti-reformist in my outlook towards the WTBTS. I know there are lots of reformists out there (and, it would seem, on here), not least the Jehovah's Witnesses Reformation Movement - and each have their own list of "demands" that need to be met.
I'm of the school of thought that "you can't polish a turd". The WTBTS is what it is, a power-crazed despotic cult that is infatuated with its own history, and it will NEVER change substantially or yield to any such demands. No Governing Body, either now or in the future, will accept any series of demands that would serve to weaken its control or influence. They would see any conciliatory moves to appease disgruntled believers and former-witnesses as undermining their authority and representing a compromise against their core values.
That said, there is no reason to think that our actions cannot seriously undermine the authority of the Society, and potentially lead to its gradual demise. The very existence of this forum is an act of defiance against the Governing Body and a resource by which witnesses can gain access to factual information about the lies they are being fed. I haven't been on the forum for long, but I've already thought of one idea that would potentially serve to demonize and publicly humiliate the Society, and that is to produce a film about the life of Ray Franz. Some are sceptical, and some see the true potential of such an ambitious endeavor. In any case, I think it has more chance of success than sticking fliers in car windows and spraying grafiti on Kingdom Halls - that would only serve to anger and upset individual witnesses and embolden their opposition to the concept of any "apostate movement".