here you go, afin and other wts supporters;
1) why does the wts insist on claiming that elders are appointed under holy spirit, when it's been proven that they have been guilty of so-called unchristian behaviors?
2) can you prove that they are appointed by holy spirit?.
You are appointed for one of a few reasons:
1) There is a need for elders in that congregation so if you are relatively ok and and go out in service regularly you will most likely be appointed
2) Who you know... i.e. if your dad is an elder
3) The CO likes you and "simonized" him or paid him off (this is also generally how you get parts on Assemblies)
Holy Spirit.... yeah right!
would you have not taken a transfusion?
would you make sure that your child was deprived of one, too?
would you have turned in your own family member to the elders?..........just how far would you have gone in showing allegiance to the cult?
5+ years ago I would have died not taking blood.. now NO FREAKING WAY! The blood doctrine is ridiculous anyway. You can have fractions of everything but not everything all together?? What is with that?
there was a very well respected elder in my cong that i will call mr. r. this elder was a very zealous and pious jw and the po.
mr. r was of cuban descent and had extremely conservative veiws.
mr. r being the upstanding jw and elder had a very attractive wife and two cute kids.
Phone Sex was actually highlighted as being an offense wherein someone would be guilty of uncleaness or lose conduct which according to the elders book could be a DF offense, this was a verbal instruction given from a CO. He certainly wouldnt qualify for privileges but it is not grounds for a scriptural divorce under WT guidelines since porneia needs to involve another human or beast with lewd intent.
in it's own harsh way, bethel taught me some vital lessons about life.
work hard,.
play hard, drink hard and don't trust the goons in charge.. one of the scenarios that would replay itself over and over again concerned a subclass.
Yes I knew many who were like that and its sad really. If you "read between the lines" you will see that many, not all, but many of these types were PO sons or ex-bethelites sons, forced to Pioneer and go to Bethel to prove that their family is righteous, blah blah blah. Its all a fascade, its not real and they dont even want to be there.
Then there are some who really believe all of this crap. These either end up in the Service Dept. at a service desk, eventually as CO's, or also washed up inactive's who the elders cant stand after they leave Bethel and so they are never appointed as elders. Anyway... its all a sham so it doesnt matter
do you think the governing body really knows it??
the lawyers??
the average elder or ministerial servant?
JH: "Since the elders don't make money out of it, I guess that they believe all of it..."
This is not always the case. Many of the elders like the power they have, some really do believe it, many I think stay because of family. Many stay elders because of the status it brings them and their families, JWism is like any other social group, humans want to belong and long to be popular. Remember High School? The so called popular kids? Well being an elder, within JWism, is that popular crowd. You get invited to all the "gatherings", many look up to you... respect you. its a tremendous ego boost especially if you are a janitor. Is it right? Absolutely not but in many cases I think it is the truth.
so here comes patdp very soon.
it's not as bad as ipalfatn i & ii, but still its based on the idea of 607 and 1914.. how have any of you ex or current book study overseers handled this problem.
i'd like not to conduct but thats not really an option.
I don't know what sucked more, this book or the Isaiah Vol. I & II. I hated conducting all of them and am not looking forward to this again. (sigh) !
can anyone tell me why this practice was stopped.
i was told the reason for the guards was to prevent apostates from "attacking" anyone up there and disrupting the program.
has anyonne witnessed an "attack" of apostates gone wild?
The practice was not stopped. There are attendants at the entrance to the stage at all of our assemblies.
forgive me i haven't been on the board in a bit, but what is the current train of thought on the 1914 generation never dying.
is the belief finally dead and they're now picking something else?
last i checked it was a broader sense of the word, like napolean's generation was like anyone from the 1800's or something.
Heathen are you defending the WTBTS? Just curious.
i would think with all that the governing body is faced with that they must feel some form of isolation even at bethel.
they must worry all the time that soon thier little world will come crashing down especially with the brutal exposer the internet is providing.
i'm also sure that they wonder who will be the next to turn states evidence against them in some legal case they face now or in the furure.. with all the very clear information on the internet exposeing the governing body thate soon some higher up will get deprogramed that have been privy to some very damaging information perhaps from the accounting or the legal department that could send thier asses to jail.
What they are going to need is a higher up at Bethel, a HEAVY to come clean and expose them for who they are. Remember this though, its easier said than done. Take Ray Franz example... what we know of the situation anyway is that he was removed from his position in the WTS, perhaps before he had time to step aside.
Consider that many of the heavies at Bethel are lifers who have been there for 20..30..40..50+ years and will have nowhere to go if they "apostasize". If their families are JW's they are even worse off. As I said, it is easier to say you want to leave than to actually do it. I imagine there must be some of these heavies who feel the same as many of us do but they stay because they feel they have to. You can liken this to staying in a "dead end" job you dont like because it pays the bills. You arent happy but you rationalize that "hey at least I have food, a house, etc." I think many of them do the same with their "jobs" at Bethel.
How quick would Ray Franz or Ed Dunlap have left if they were not "forced" out? We will never know will we.
on wikipedia, the online encyclopedia, under the topic christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.
it states:.
publicly announced in january of 2001, the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses is a legally recognized corporation which distinguishes the religious order known as jehovah's witnesses from the other corporations operated by their organization.
XQSThaipoes: "CCJW is jehovahs witnesses. the watchtower is in no way related to JWs anymore. So unless you are trying to take down a book factory for violating osha or something the watchtower is innocent of almost any accusation escpecially since 2001."
This is absolutely the reason they formed those corporations I think. It is a smart move actually that protects their assests.
What many of you dont know is that much, and I mean MUCH of the policy now that is given to the elders is related to them verbally by CO's and not in writing, sure they are told to write it in the Pay Attention elders manual but they can never actually prove where they got the info. This also I think is to shield the CCoJW from litigious indivuals and also allows them to use elders as scapegoats. Pretty clever actually.
