Posts by vienne

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

vienne

AND you wrote:

"The statement that Jesus was "made perfect" (Hebrews 5:9) does not imply that He was imperfect in His divine nature. Instead, it refers to His human nature being perfected through the fulfillment of His mission, culminating in His sacrificial death and resurrection."

Human nature or divine nature, in some sense Christ needed to be perfected. That's never true of Jehovah/Yahweh who is perfect in every sense at every instant. Even by your definition Christ had to be perfected in some sense. That implies the possibility of failure. God cannot fail.

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

vienne

Additionally you write:

"Jesus is both God and the mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5). His priesthood is not a sign of inferiority but a function of His role in the economy of salvation. He mediates as the God-man, fully God and fully man, reconciling humanity to God through His sacrificial death."

This is nonsense. A mediator stands outside the parties to a covenant, in the context of I Tim 2, the New Covenant. If God meant to institute an unilateral covenant, there would be no mediator. The only example of a unilateral covenant is in Genesis made between Jehovah and Abraham. There is no mediator but an obligation God placed on himself. The New Covenant has a mediator, Jesus, who in the pattern of the Old Covenant stands between the two parties. You have repeated Catholic theology, but you've done violence to the plain meaning of scripture.

You ignore the writer of Hebrews' plain words and intent to overlay it with your theology. Is your grasp on Catholic heresy so desperate that you cannot rely on the plain meaning of Paul's (or whom ever the writer was) words?

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

vienne

Your are in error from the first statement. You wrote:

"Philippians 2:6-8 explains that Jesus, though being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be exploited but emptied Himself, taking on the form of a servant and being made in human likeness."

There is no thought of exploitation. Instead the Greek word means repine, to steal, an attempt to attain something that did not belong to him.

If you would let the Bible speak for itself instead of cutting and pasting Catholic theology, you'd do better.

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

vienne

(Hebrews 5:1-10) 5 For every high priest taken from among men is appointed [If Jesus is God co-equal with the father he would not be 'appointed' but assume the office in his own right. A priest is an intercessor, not the God he serves.] in their behalf over the things relating to God, so that he may offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He is able to deal compassionately with the ignorant and erring ones, since he too is confronted with his own weakness, [God in what ever form he has is not weak in any sense. Neither does he learn from weakness.] 3 and because of that he must make offerings for his own sins just as he does for those of the people. 4 A man does not take this honor of his own accord, but he receives it only when he is called by God, just as Aaron was. 5 So, too, the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but was glorified by the One who said to him: [Jesus was glorified in the same way as Aaron. A lesser is raised/glorified by the greater] “You are my son; today I have become your father.” 6 As he also says in another place, “You are a priest forever in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.” 7 During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, [Jesus prayed. God does not pray to himself. God's servants pray to him. Isaiah calls Jesus his servant. A Servant is not greater than his master, but less.] to the One who was able to save him out of death, [One needing salvation is less than and dependent on the one providing it.] and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. [εὐλαβείας "godly fear" is variously translated "worship" and "reverence." God does not worship himself.] 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. [To whom was Jesus obedient? He was obedient to God. Obedience to God is worship. The lesser worships the greater. And in what sense does God learn anything. Everything is already within his intellectual grasp] ]9 And after he had been made perfect, [In what ever way Jesus was 'made perfect' he was in some sense not perfect or complete. That could not be said of God.] he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, 10 because he has been designated by God [Note: By God. Not by himself. Not a self-designation] a high priest in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.[A priest is never the God he serves.]

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

vienne

I see the Catholic troll has struck again.

72

The Watchtower's Depiction of 'paradise'..

by Ron.W. in

perhaps we could post the pictures the wt have presented in their literature that depict their version of paradise here for comment/discussion:.

from: spirits of the dead—can they help you or harm you?

do they really exist?.

vienne

Polar bears are named such because of their preferred environment. And it isn't in mid summer as in this picture.

72

The Watchtower's Depiction of 'paradise'..

by Ron.W. in

perhaps we could post the pictures the wt have presented in their literature that depict their version of paradise here for comment/discussion:.

from: spirits of the dead—can they help you or harm you?

do they really exist?.

vienne

In the 1930s Watchtower booklets sometimes illustrated paradise as their artists pictured it. Here are two examples:

From His Works, 1934:

The image shows a pastoral society with the shepherd viewing post Armageddon remains. A bit gruesome.

This is from Home and Happiness, 1932:

Image shows a nice home - 1930s style of course - with a discarded cannon used as a bird's nest.

38

Questions about WT illustrations

by Beck_Melbourne in

jw
friends

when i was a kid....i used to look at the wt illustrations of paradise conditions and would day dream about life in the new system....i later used this same technique (shame on me) to brain wash bible students.

however...as i grew up lol (apparently!

) the illustrations changed....and became more modern.

vienne

when I was much younger than I am now, Mom, Uncle B and my aunt and a cousin toured Brooklyn Bethel. Many of the original paintings used as Watchtower illustrations hung in hallways. They were well-executed paintings. When translated to publication illustrations all that was lost, and they became quite ugly.

I wondered why they didn't use sketches and line drawings that would have translated to the page more effectively. Today, of course, they can print photographs which translate to text illustrations more clearly.

4

Odd bit of Watch Tower history

by vienne in

https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2024/08/1912-world-missionary-tour.html.

from russell's 1912 world tour.

.

vienne

https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2024/08/1912-world-missionary-tour.html

From Russell's 1912 World Tour.

60

The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity

by aqwsed12345 in

1. the continuity and visibility of the church.

the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.

there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.

vienne

if you expect me to read all of that, you're delusional. Certainly you can defend your religion in a sentence or two. I do not care what "the church" - your religion of choice - teaches. I care what the Bible teaches. The Catholic Church would have been at home in its own temple in ancient Babylon. It's time you find what the Bible actually teaches instead of looking to a religion that rapes children, steals from the poor, teaches falsehood and consorts with criminals.

Are you incapable of accepting the Bible at its word? Are you incapable of writing something succinct?

Your verbal spew is not convincing.