Posts by matt2414

17

The WTS and Same-Sex Marriage

by Quendi in

we all know the wts position on same-sex marriage, but i thought it was interesting to see this piece on its website.

i think what intrigues me the most is that the wts approach is, as i once told the elders on my judicial committee, "inadequate, incomplete and insufficient".

the peice then goes on to give the typical fairy-tale solution to what it perceives as a problem with the experience of someone they call "nathan" and how he was able to completely change thanks to god's holy spirit working on him.

matt2414

The article on the Watchtower website is proof positive that God IS NOT using the Governing Body to lead His people. There are so many Bible texts that are twisted and taken out of context, that it's an embarrassment to the entire Watchtower hierarchy. Borrowing from their own smug semantics, "true Bible Students" know that the account of Sodom has nothing to do with homosexuality and that the Genesis account was not referring to homosexuality.

When the men surrounded Lot's house and called out the visitors, they were seeking to rape them, not make love to them. Only perverts cannot distinguish the difference between rape and sex. Rape is an act of violence, meant to humiliate and dominate an individual. The account says that even children were among those calling out the visitors. They weren't seeking sex, they were seeking violence, just like in many lands today that are at war, where children are armed with guns and knives. The account at Romans 1 was referring to idolatry and the practices that go along with it, Paul wasn't addressing homosexuality. If the Watchtower's version of Romans were correct, that would mean there was a mass conversion of straight people -- men and women -- into homosexuality, which we all now know just doesn't happen. You either are straight or you're not. A large group of straight people just don't turn into being gay suddenly and uncontrollably. The idea is so ridiculous that it defies logic.

As for "Nathan" -- the name isn't even his real one, even though a last name was never mentioned -- the article says that he is no longer "pursuing a homosexual life-style." Big deal! If it were a "life-style" to him, then obviously he wasn't gay. Lots of straight people, especially when they are in their teens and early adulthood, have various sexual experiences, but that doesn't make them gay; just as many gay people have had opposite sex experiences when they were younger -- some even marrying ... and later divorcing -- but they are still gay.

Even though the Watchtower peppers articles such as this with misapplied Bible texts, it is obvious to "true Christians" that the Governing Body "knows neither the Scriptures nor the power of God." (Matt. 22:29; Mark 12:24)

Thanks for the post Quendi. Congratulations, AK MCGRATH.

18

Are the Witnesses opposing God with their twisted view of "higher education"?

by matt2414 in

msnbc is reporting that "the government reported friday that the unemployment rate for college graduates fell slightly in may, to 3.9 percent from 4 percent a month earlier.

for people with just a high school degree, the unemployment rate increased to 8.1 percent, from 7.9 percent a month earlier.".

the bible says at 1 tim.

matt2414

MSNBC is reporting that "the government reported Friday that the unemployment rate for college graduates fell slightly in May, to 3.9 percent from 4 percent a month earlier. For people with just a high school degree, the unemployment rate increased to 8.1 percent, from 7.9 percent a month earlier."

The Bible says at 1 Tim. 5:8, "If anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." Because many Jehovah's Witnesses are unemployed or underemployed and not able to "provide for their own" (with some even living off government assistance), wouldn't the Governing Body's insistence that Witnesses avoid higher education really be an act of defiance against God's command here at 1 Timothy? If they are "worse than an unbeliever," what does that make them? Apostate?

17

Got My First Shunning Last Night - And I am NOT Even a JW!!!

by Yan Bibiyan in

wow!!.

last night i go to the grocery store and see this guy, always been a nice guy, always says "hello, how have you been, we mised you at the hall" crap.

and i say "never been better, nice to see you" you know the ususal pleasantries.... not last night.. we go into the store almost simultaneously (from different directions) and as soon as he sees me he dashes towards the shopping carts.

matt2414

Yan Bibiyan:

Is the guy a Witness? Could it be that HE'S been disfellowshipped and was trying to avoid having YOU speak to HIM?

This has happened to me years ago. I chased down a guy who was avoiding me, forcing him into a conversation, when he finally tells me that he's been disfellowshipped. How was I to know? He had switched to a neighboring congregation and we hadn't gotten the announcement. I felt bad for him then; now it seems rather funny how I cornered him at Costco. I should look him up, now that I can speak to him. :)

3

Would a loving, all-wise God use Jehovah's Witnesses and their Governing Body as His best way to save all mankind?

by matt2414 in

after all these years of preaching since charles taze russell in the 1880s.

there are only about 7.5 million "active" witnesses in the world.

if god "doesn't want to destroy anyone" (2 peter 3:9), are the witnesses really god's best effort to save us all?

matt2414

After all these years of preaching since Charles Taze Russell in the 1880s. there are only about 7.5 million "active" Witnesses in the world. If God "doesn't want to destroy anyone" (2 Peter 3:9), are the Witnesses really God's best effort to save us all? Why would so many people be leaving that group if that were our only hope? Aren't the Witnesses really proving the perhaps God doesn't have the right to rule over mankind since their efforts are a virtual failure and self-defeating? Just wondering ...

45

If you were a Witness, when did you realize the Governing Body was apostate?

by matt2414 in

for more than 30 years i believed everything that came from the watchtower society, especially since i lived at bethel for a while and i knew a lot of the gb members, who to me seemed intelligent and personable.

at the beginning, the emphasis was on the bible, the kingdom, jehovah and jesus.

but gradually over time, there would appear an elephant in the room that no one seemed to talk about, such as the change in the understanding of "generation.

matt2414

For more than 30 years I believed everything that came from the Watchtower Society, especially since I lived at Bethel for a while and I knew a lot of the GB members, who to me seemed intelligent and personable. At the beginning, the emphasis was on the Bible, the kingdom, Jehovah and Jesus. But gradually over time, there would appear an elephant in the room that no one seemed to talk about, such as the change in the understanding of "generation." Then another elephant would appear when they started to harbor child molesters by not "giving Caesar's things to Caesar" and calling in reports of abuses. Then another elephant when "generation" changed again. Then another elephant appeared when the Gb usurped Jehovah and Christ and began demanding obedience that only rightfully should go to God. Then another elephant when "generation" changed again.

Now that I've been out for a while, I can see there's a whole damn zoo in there and everyone inside is afraid to talk about it.

Did anyone else have an a-ha! moment when they knew something was smelling bad? (Perhaps from all the elephants in the room?)

6

Should laws originate from God or the governing body?

by matt2414 in

the aug. 15, 2012, study edition of the watchtower (page 13, par.

"8 how can you know whether you truly love gods laws?

examine the way you react when you receive counsel about what you feel is a personal preferencefor example, on the matter of dress and grooming.

matt2414

The Aug. 15, 2012, study edition of The Watchtower (page 13, par. 8) says:

"8 How can you know whether you truly love God’s laws? Examine the way you react when you receive counsel about what you feel is a personal preference—for example, on the matter of dress and grooming. Before becoming a Kingdom citizen, you may have preferred
to dress sloppily or provocatively. As your love for God grew, you learned to dress in a way that honors him. (1 Tim. 2:9, 10; 1 Pet. 3:3, 4)"

When did dress and grooming become a law? The two Bible texts cited aren't laws. Paul expressed his desire or wish on how women should dress -- not a law -- and Peter says that women should focus not just on their outward appearance, but they should also give attention to their inner selves -- again, not a law. Why would the so-called "faithful slave" twist these texts to make them appear as laws? After combing the scriptures (in Acts 15), didn't the first century older men only find a few requirements that were necessary for Christians?

For that matter, when did "slaves" start giving barking orders in the Master's house? Shouldn't they be focusing on feeding Christ's belongings spritual food until his return, instead of making up imaginary "laws"? (Matt 24:45, 46)

19

Jesus is pro-gays and anti-religionists

by Fernando in

.

simple version:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrlzyw6ulyw.

matt2414

Fernando, you may be on to something. Many fundamentalists teach that homosexuality is the worst sin, even more damning than murder or idolatry. Others claim that when Adam and Eve ate of the "apple," that was really a metaphor for them having sex, which they claim was a sin. God created sexual desire in humans and animals, a desire just as great as hunger for food. Why would he make it a sin to act on that desire? How evil would that be? I can't help but believe religionists are blaspheming God when they promote this idea, because they are in effect blaming him since he put the idea and desire in us in the first place. Spiritually speaking, they are the biggest whores around.

PS: I sent you a personal message.

19

Jesus is pro-gays and anti-religionists

by Fernando in

.

simple version:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrlzyw6ulyw.

matt2414

Mind blown, great post and insight on your part!

So many people say that homosexuality is incomprehensible to God. Yet, he designed all the birds, animals and insects on earth, and among all of them there are hundreds of species that exhibit homosexuality and same-sex pair bonding. Even plants exhibit bisexuality. There is no evidence they were affected by the sin of man, and even the Witnesses are constantly marveling at their amazing design. In other words, God must have thought of and designed homosexuality as part of his creation. That's why the Bible never addresses homosexuals or homosexuality disparagingly.

All Bible texts that are used by moralists to condemn homosexuality actually are not addressed to gays and lesbians living among the Israelites or the early Christian congregation, but rather to the heterosexuals. When read in this manner, it changes completely our understanding of what is said, and more importantly, why it was said. The context almost always had to do with -- not immorality but -- idolatry. From Genesis through Revelation, pure worship has been the overriding live-or-death issue, not sex or sexual orientation.

19

Jesus is pro-gays and anti-religionists

by Fernando in

.

simple version:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrlzyw6ulyw.

matt2414

Looking closely at the example of Jesus in the scriptures, I find that he treated women better than the men of his time, he treated Samaritans better than their Jewish rivals, by speaking to them and not acknowledging the Samaritan insults others often used at that time, and he treated lepers much better than was customary at the time. As for homosexuals, neither Jesus nor the rest of the scriptures make mention of them. Most of the biases toward these groups came from others, not Christ. Oftentimes, also, readers insert their own biases in the scriptures where none existed, for example, using the Bible to disparage blacks.

2

List all the debunks with sources

by thecrushed in

i'd like to make a good sticky thread here.

i'd like to challenge all of you brainiacs to list all the debunks to the many wrong doctrines of the wt.

i want it to be to the point and devestatingly obvious and solid.

matt2414

Inform police of child molestation reports.

The Witnesses mistakenly use Deut. 17:6 and 1 Tim. 5:19 mention of having "two or three witnesses" to a sin to shield themselves from having to tell authorities of child molestation reports in the congregation. Deuteronomy no longer applies and 1 Timothy only applies to the congregation, not Caesar (secular law enforcement). Jesus said at Luke 20:25: “By all means, then, pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.”