Posts by matt2414

21

Question for ex or current :) bethelites

by EndofMysteries in

if any of you have worked in the mail department or are familiar with how mail is handled.

two questions.

1. if a letter is sent to the main bethel address and the name is "the governing body of jehovah's witnesses", will that letter reach them or is it opened and read by an underling who decides if it works it's way to them.

matt2414

Puffthedragon and ronwashington, I wish I had known you two when I was in Bethel. It would have been more of a blast! I was at Brooklyn and the farm from 1988-89, back and forth from training, then I came and went on assignment until about 1994. I worked in computers/MEPS and even factory electric for awhile.

I have a question though: Did you ever have doubts about the organization when you would hear crackpot comments from Couch and others? I think I did, but just ignored them. I don't know why.

I remember -- at breakfast, mind you -- Couch saying that brothers should pee sitting down so they don't miss the toilet and hit the floor. I, too, heard his comments about gays. I would cringe everytime he said "homo," or for that matter, disparaging words he called other groups of people. It just seemed to hypocritical to privately ridicule people, and then go door to door pretending that you're interested in saving them.

I also recall Sydlik encouraging the young guys to look for Italian women with big boobs as wives. The sex is so much better. Women and boobs seemed to be a favorite topic of his. But he always seemed to be a loose cannon. Once the talk coordinator in Sydlik's cong. told me that Sydlik was complaining about having to give a talk in the congregation of another, stricter (Jaracz or Schroeder?), member of the GB. The talk coordinator told him, "What do you have to worry about as long as you stick to the outline?" Sydlik responded, "That's the problem!"

Another time, during morning worship, George Gangas went on and on about how wonderful it would be to live in the new world. He sounded so effusive and enamored with the idea of living forever on earth, that one missionary leaned over and asked me, "Isn't he supposed to go to heaven?" Gangas then mentioned that it would be so awesome to live on earth, that even the animals would be able to talk and praise God. We all just sat there staring at each other with puzzled looks on our faces. Then he gave the morning prayer where he rattled off at least a half dozen or more adjectives each time he referred to God.

I had so much respect for the organization before bethel, but once I got there, I realized there was absolutely nothing special about those men and that they were just as flawed, imperfect and damaged as anyone else, perhaps even moreso. There was absolutely no evidence that God had chosen them, was working through them or even knew them. Why I didn't bolt then I'll never know. :)

6

Did Jesus shun the obstinately willful or incorrigible sinners?

by I_love_Jeff in

did jesus shun the obstinately willful or incorrigible sinners?

a popular jw on yahoo answers is insisting that jesus shunned those types of sinners.

i do not recall jesus shunning anyone in his time.

matt2414

There is absolutely no evidence that Jesus shunned people. In fact, the Jesus had a conversation and associated with the greatest sinner of all: Satan! Matthew 4:1-11 even says that " the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple" and " the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor." Why would Jesus allow himself to be led about like this if he was shunning Satan. (God also had a conversation with Satan in Job chapters 1 and 2, where he willingly participated in a challenge with his arch enemy.)

Also, there's 1 Peter 3:19 where it says that the resurrected Jesus " went and preached to the spirits in prison," spirits that the Witnesses themselves claim are fallen angels or demons. No shunning there.

28

Have you ever wondered why as Jehovah's Witnesses you ignored the inconsistencies, lies and hypocricies of the Watchtower's Governing Body for so long?

by matt2414 in

here are a few examples of what i overlooked for so long:.

1. the watchtower often praised rutherford's 1918 talk "millions now living will never die.

" however, everyone who had ever heard that talk was dead.. 2. the governing body urges the placement of the watchtower's "bible" literature with strangers.

matt2414

Reading some of your comments reminded be of a few other gems that I used to hear:

8. At conventions, don't eat a heavy meal at lunchtime or all the blood rushes to your stomach and you'll fall asleep during the afternoon program. However, Awake! says if you have insomnia, don't eat a heavy meal before bedtime or you won't be able to sleep.

9. Circuit overseers used to say, people who put "No Jehovah's Witnesses" signs on their doors are not being taught by their churches to defend their beliefs. However, the Governing Body says "don't talk to apostates."

10. The Watchtower says that "true" Christians do not adhere to non-biblical superstitious practics such as avoiding black cats or walking under a ladder out of fear that something bad will befall them. However, Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to the non-biblical belief that celebrating birthdays will somehow lead to something bad befalling them.

11. The Watchtower says that Christians are not under the Law of Moses and blasts the Pharisees for taking portions of that law and twisting it, in an effort to get people to do their bidding. However, the Governing Body hierarchy is often stating that Christians must follow the "principals found in the Law of Moses," thus giving them license to make up laws just like the Pharisees.

28

Have you ever wondered why as Jehovah's Witnesses you ignored the inconsistencies, lies and hypocricies of the Watchtower's Governing Body for so long?

by matt2414 in

here are a few examples of what i overlooked for so long:.

1. the watchtower often praised rutherford's 1918 talk "millions now living will never die.

" however, everyone who had ever heard that talk was dead.. 2. the governing body urges the placement of the watchtower's "bible" literature with strangers.

matt2414

Here are a few examples of what I overlooked for so long:

1. The Watchtower often praised Rutherford's 1918 talk "Millions Now Living Will Never Die." However, everyone who had ever heard that talk was dead.

2. The Governing Body urges the placement of the Watchtower's "Bible" literature with strangers. However, Witnesses are never allowed to accept Bible literature from non-Witnesses.

3. The GB says the New Testament mainly applies to "anointed" who are going to live in heaven with God. However, at Matthew 28:19, 20 where Jesus tells his "anointed" followers to make disciples of people of all the nations, well that part applies mainly to the "other sheep."

4. The Watchtower says children (minors) ought to be able to attend school and defend the "truth," and stand up to vicious ridicule. However, adult witnesses should not get "higher education" because they could be swayed from the "truth."

5. Jehovah's Witnesses are not to attend college because the pursuit of riches could take them away from the ministry. However, it's OK to own your own business even though it will quite likely take you away from the ministry.

6. Witnesses who go to college should not be given responsibilities in the congregation. However, if you went to college before becoming a Witness, then you may very well qualify for Bethel service as a doctor, lawyer, architect, etc.

7. The GB says God has allowed suffering for thousands of years to prove to the angels a point about God's right to rule. However, mere humans only need a 6-month Bible study with the Witnesses to learn the same point about God's right to rule, then you can get baptized.

These are just a few of the inconsistencies that I can't believe I ignored for so long. And I'm just getting started.

Have you ever wondered why as Jehovah's Witnesses you ignored the inconsistencies, lies and hypocricies of the Watchtower's Governing Body for so long?

by matt2414 in

here are a few examples of what i overlooked for so long:.

1. the watchtower often praised rutherford's 1918 talk "millions now living will never die.

" however, everyone who had ever heard that talk was dead.. 2. the governing body urges the placement of the watchtower's "bible" literature with strangers.

matt2414

Here are a few examples of what I overlooked for so long:

1. The Watchtower often praised Rutherford's 1918 talk "Millions Now Living Will Never Die." However, everyone who had ever heard that talk was dead.

2. The Governing Body urges the placement of the Watchtower's "Bible" literature with strangers. However, Witnesses are never allowed to accept Bible literature from non-Witnesses.

3. The GB says the New Testament mainly applies to "anointed" who are going to live in heaven with God. However, at Matthew 28:19, 20 where Jesus tells his "anointed" followers to make disciples of people of all the nations, well that part applies mainly to the "other sheep."

4. The Watchtower says children (minors) ought to be able to attend school and defend the "truth," and stand up to vicious ridicule. However, adult witnesses should not get "higher education" because they could be swayed from the "truth."

5. Jehovah's Witnesses are not to attend college because the pursuit of riches could take them away from the ministry. However, it's OK to own your own business even though it will quite likely take you away from the ministry.

6. Witnesses who go to college should not be given responsibilities in the congregation. However, if you went to college before becoming a Witness, then you may very well qualify for Bethel service as a doctor, lawyer, architect, etc.

7. The GB says God has allowed suffering for thousands of years to prove to the angels a point about God's right to rule. However, mere humans only need a 6-month Bible study with the Witnesses to learn the same point about God's right to rule, then you can get baptized.

These are just a few of the inconsistencies that I can't believe I ignored for so long. And I'm just getting started.

19

I have a question for any ex or current elder or co.

by blindnomore in

1 how long does the society keep records of publishers diciplinery actions at cong level and at the branch ?.

2 how would you respond to the society's claim that they are not responsible for the criminal actions of the rank and file?.

matt2414

On question two, churches and church leaders in the U.S. have ministerial privilege, which allows them to hear confessions even about most criminal activity and not have to report it to authorities. Catholic priests who hear confessions have this legal privilege as well. I remember a circuit overseer saying that elders don't even have to report murder, although it would be handled in the congregation by judicial committee.

On the other hand, the law now requires certain information such as reports of child abuse and molestations to be turned over to the police. To evade this and avoid having any responsibility in the matter, the governing body requires that all information regarding a judicial committee matter involving this be held in confidence and be placed in a secure location, away from the rest of the elders and congregation. This way they can deny they knew of the alleged crime. Calling the Society about such matters would violate the ministerial privilege, so the GB tells elders not to mention to the police that they had any contact with headquarters.

32

The "cause" of homosexuality (From JWtalk) LOL

by yourmomma in

if any of you can read jwtalk check out this thread for a good laugh: http://www.jwtalk.net/forum/read.php?10,118252.

for me the best "cause" was soy, yes soy apparantly turns people into homosexuals, lmao!.

what would really be funny is if someone who has an account could post some more insane stuff like that, like "playing with smurfs or my little pony causes homosexuality" or "eating too many cheese curls".lol.

matt2414

Honestly, now that I am no longer a Witness, I don't find any scriptures that "ban" homosexuality, male or female.

13

Since it's obvious to true Christians that the Governing Body is apostate, are they represented by the "evil slave," the "man of lawlessness," the "antichrist" or someone else in the Scriptures?

by matt2414 in

after the conti verdict last week, the list of high crimes committed by the witness organization led by its governing body just gets longer and longer.

in addition to harboring, protecting and even legally defending child molesters, the governing body is also guilty of being defacto false prophets, stumblers of "little ones," blasphers of god with their "jehovah hates everyone but us" teachings, causers of division between brothers with their shunning policy, among myriad other actions that have turned people against god.

so, who in the bible represents the governing body?

matt2414

After the Conti verdict last week, the list of high crimes committed by the Witness organization led by its Governing Body just gets longer and longer. In addition to harboring, protecting and even legally defending child molesters, the Governing Body is also guilty of being defacto false prophets, stumblers of "little ones," blasphers of God with their "Jehovah hates everyone but us" teachings, causers of division between brothers with their shunning policy, among myriad other actions that have turned people against God. So, who in the Bible represents the Governing Body? The "evil slave," "Babylon the Great," the "wild beast," or someone else? It would interesting to know how God intends to destroy such evil.

28

Do JWs treat women like second-class citizens, like their husbands' property?

by matt2414 in

as an elder, i recall that the husband always had to be present on any judicial committee meeting involving his wife, but that the wife was not to be present on judicial committee meetings involving her husband.

has this changed?

if not, isn't that treating women as lesser persons than their husbands?.

matt2414

I agree. Although the Bible accounts describe women as secondary to men, how much of that was because of the customs of the time and how much of that was God's doing? I mean, God made woman not from some lesser material but from Adam. You can't be more equal than that. God also told Abraham to listen to his wife, Sarah, giving her an equal say. Jesus showed respect for all women, including prostitutes and Samaritans, women who were disdained in those days. The fact that so many women wanted to be around Jesus indicates that he welcomed them and treated them as equals, even though he was the son of God. He didn't have a double standard for men and women including in the matter of divorce, as was the custom, and he even included women among the very first to receive the outpouring of holy spirit.

It just seems apparent to me that the Witnesses and their governing body clergy -- all men -- are misogynists and out of touch.

28

Do JWs treat women like second-class citizens, like their husbands' property?

by matt2414 in

as an elder, i recall that the husband always had to be present on any judicial committee meeting involving his wife, but that the wife was not to be present on judicial committee meetings involving her husband.

has this changed?

if not, isn't that treating women as lesser persons than their husbands?.

matt2414

Thanks for the link to the video. I guess much hasn't changed regarding the way women are demeaned among Jehovah's Witnesses. I remember how they would mock Pentecostals for wearing their long hair in buns and long skirts all the time, but they don't see that they themselves aren't much different. They might as well be wearing burqas.

Since Galatians 3:28 indicates that everyone (former men and women on earth) will be equal in heaven, why did Paul indicate that women should play a secondary role in the congregation? Could it be that he was merely following the custom of the day, trying to avoid stumbling new converts? If that's so, what is the Witnesses' excuse now that women enjoy greater parity with men? Women are now doctors, lawyers, religious leaders, mayors, governors, and law enforcement officials, so why are they treated as the property of their fathers and husbands? Even Jesus treated women with dignity and respect, at a time when men rarely interacted with women in public, so why don't the Witnesses follow Christ's example?