Posts by matt2414

27

Birth Control

by turtleturtle in

i have never understood why, according to the wt, jws are okay (conscience matter) with birth control methods like the pill, mini-pill, depo-provera, and iuds.

i am not trying to spark an abortion debate.

but i was actually angry at the wt when i started researching how the mini-pill prevented pregnancy.

If life begins at conception, as the JWs believe, does that mean that God is going to resurrect all the dead embryos -- whether they were aborted by accident or on purpose -- back to the earth as part of the Great Crowd? If they are "life," wouldn't God be obligated to bring them back in order to be consistent with the "life-at-conception" dogma? How would he do that since embryos can't survive outside their mothers' bodies? Would the mothers be resurrected pregnant? What if she had many embryos that were aborted? I'm just wondering.

4

When did the Governing Body leaders turn into pawns of Satan? Have they always been, or is this something recent?

by matt2414 in

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matt2414

I'm familiar enough. Even some of the Watchtower publications refer to those beliefs back then, but it makes it seem so innocuous. I guess I felt at the time that if the Society is OK with what went on during Russell's time, I should be OK with it. Those were the "early days" of the organization and Christ later cleaned his house. But did he? The beliefs and abuses have gotten worse.

10

When did the Governing Body leaders turn into pawns of Satan? Have they always been, or is this something recent?

by matt2414 in

i was wondering about this because i have been telling people i left the organization because of all the anti-christian teachings and revelations of late, such as:.

hypocritically joining the united nations even though they teach that all supporters of the u.n. will be destroyed;harboring child abusers ps.

50:16-18going beyond what is written by forbidding higher education even though such knowledge results in better use of the brains god gave uspromoting the worship of the governing body over god and christ even though that is idolatrysustained hitlerian opposition to gays in the congregation, something christ never taught, and the list goes on .... now, after reviewing the teachings from the time of russell and rutherford in the early 1900s such as the use of the cross, the celebration of holidays, helping the war effort, the mystic use of pyramids, all things that the organization now condemns, i wonder, did the witnesses ever have the so-called truth?

matt2414

I was wondering about this because I have been telling people I left the Organization because of all the anti-Christian teachings and revelations of late, such as:

Hypocritically joining the United Nations even though they teach that all supporters of the U.N. will be destroyed;
Harboring child abusers – Ps. 50:16-18
Going “beyond what is written” by forbidding higher education even though such knowledge results in better use of the brains God gave us
Promoting the worship of the Governing Body over God and Christ even though that is idolatry
Sustained Hitlerian opposition to gays in the congregation, something Christ never taught, and the list goes on ...

Now, after reviewing the teachings from the time of Russell and Rutherford in the early 1900s such as the use of the cross, the celebration of holidays, helping the war effort, the mystic use of pyramids, all things that the organization now condemns, I wonder, did the Witnesses EVER have the so-called truth? How stupid was I?

Did I go along with all these lies because I was indoctrinated as a teenager? If that's the case, it's no wonder they don't want their members going to college to develop thinking ability.

[edited so we could read it - Lady Lee]

4

When did the Governing Body leaders turn into pawns of Satan? Have they always been, or is this something recent?

by matt2414 in

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matt2414

I was wondering about this because I have been telling people I left the Organization because of all the anti-Christian teachings and revelations of late, such as:

· Hypocritically joining the United Nations even though they teach that all supporters of the U.N. will be destroyed;
· Harboring child abusers – Ps. 50:16-18
· Going “beyond what is written” by forbidding higher education even such knowledge results in better us of the brains God gave us
· Promoting the worship of the Governing Body over God and Christ even though that is idolatry
· Sustained Hitlerian opposition to gays in the congregation, something Christ never taught, et al

But after reviewing the teachings from the time of Russell and Rutherford such as the use of the cross, the celebration of holidays, helping the war effort, the mystic use of pyramids, all things that the organization now condemns, I wonder, did the Witnesses EVER have the so-called truth? How stupid was I?

Did I go along with all these lies because I was indoctrinated as a teenager? If that's the case, it's no wonder they don't want their members going to college to develop thinking ability.

27

Birth Control

by turtleturtle in

i have never understood why, according to the wt, jws are okay (conscience matter) with birth control methods like the pill, mini-pill, depo-provera, and iuds.

i am not trying to spark an abortion debate.

but i was actually angry at the wt when i started researching how the mini-pill prevented pregnancy.

matt2414

I used to be absolutely against abortion when I followed the Watchtower's party line. But after I did exhaustive research without the "aid" of Watchtower publications, I don't see any scriptures that prohibit it. That said, however, could it be that the JWs have softened their stand on abortion to be more in line with its policy on blood. For example, it's now OK to take in a little bit of blood, so maybe it's OK to have a little bit of an abortion. I'm just sayin'.

2

Outsider video on JW approach to gay marriage

by cedars in

the following video was uploaded 2 days ago, and already has nearly 14,000 views.... .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_8obckp604.

it was posted by a radio dj who isn't one of jehovah's witnesses but who received a copy of the awake!

matt2414

I just listened to the DJ. He makes some strong points against the Witnesses, while comparing the news stories in Awake! magazine. Even he can see that the Watchtower's stance on gays is backwards and antiquated, while revealing the Witnesses to be fear- and hatemongers.

Instead of embracing the diversity that God chose to embue in all humans, whom he created in his image, the Watchtower church has chosen to side against God and condemn gays to destruction, something that Christ never even mentioned. By their anti-gay actions, the Governing Body leaders have now gone on record as siding with the most evil man who ever lived, Adolph Hitler; the most heinous, blasphemous church in existence today -- second only to the Watchtower -- the Westboro Baptist Church; and the depraved dictators of Uganda, Gambia and Iran, who continue to murder thousands of God's children because of their sexual orientation. What kind of God deserving of worship would side with such depraved and deplorable groups and individuals?

21

Question for ex or current :) bethelites

by EndofMysteries in

if any of you have worked in the mail department or are familiar with how mail is handled.

two questions.

1. if a letter is sent to the main bethel address and the name is "the governing body of jehovah's witnesses", will that letter reach them or is it opened and read by an underling who decides if it works it's way to them.

matt2414

Puffthedragon and ronwashington, I wish I had known you two when I was in Bethel. It would have been more of a blast! I was at Brooklyn and the farm from 1988-89, back and forth from training, then I came and went on assignment until about 1994. I worked in computers/MEPS and even factory electric for awhile.

I have a question though: Did you ever have doubts about the organization when you would hear crackpot comments from Couch and others? I think I did, but just ignored them. I don't know why.

I remember -- at breakfast, mind you -- Couch saying that brothers should pee sitting down so they don't miss the toilet and hit the floor. I, too, heard his comments about gays. I would cringe everytime he said "homo," or for that matter, disparaging words he called other groups of people. It just seemed to hypocritical to privately ridicule people, and then go door to door pretending that you're interested in saving them.

I also recall Sydlik encouraging the young guys to look for Italian women with big boobs as wives. The sex is so much better. Women and boobs seemed to be a favorite topic of his. But he always seemed to be a loose cannon. Once the talk coordinator in Sydlik's cong. told me that Sydlik was complaining about having to give a talk in the congregation of another, stricter (Jaracz or Schroeder?), member of the GB. The talk coordinator told him, "What do you have to worry about as long as you stick to the outline?" Sydlik responded, "That's the problem!"

Another time, during morning worship, George Gangas went on and on about how wonderful it would be to live in the new world. He sounded so effusive and enamored with the idea of living forever on earth, that one missionary leaned over and asked me, "Isn't he supposed to go to heaven?" Gangas then mentioned that it would be so awesome to live on earth, that even the animals would be able to talk and praise God. We all just sat there staring at each other with puzzled looks on our faces. Then he gave the morning prayer where he rattled off at least a half dozen or more adjectives each time he referred to God.

I had so much respect for the organization before bethel, but once I got there, I realized there was absolutely nothing special about those men and that they were just as flawed, imperfect and damaged as anyone else, perhaps even moreso. There was absolutely no evidence that God had chosen them, was working through them or even knew them. Why I didn't bolt then I'll never know. :)

6

Did Jesus shun the obstinately willful or incorrigible sinners?

by I_love_Jeff in

did jesus shun the obstinately willful or incorrigible sinners?

a popular jw on yahoo answers is insisting that jesus shunned those types of sinners.

i do not recall jesus shunning anyone in his time.

matt2414

There is absolutely no evidence that Jesus shunned people. In fact, the Jesus had a conversation and associated with the greatest sinner of all: Satan! Matthew 4:1-11 even says that " the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple" and " the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor." Why would Jesus allow himself to be led about like this if he was shunning Satan. (God also had a conversation with Satan in Job chapters 1 and 2, where he willingly participated in a challenge with his arch enemy.)

Also, there's 1 Peter 3:19 where it says that the resurrected Jesus " went and preached to the spirits in prison," spirits that the Witnesses themselves claim are fallen angels or demons. No shunning there.

28

Have you ever wondered why as Jehovah's Witnesses you ignored the inconsistencies, lies and hypocricies of the Watchtower's Governing Body for so long?

by matt2414 in

here are a few examples of what i overlooked for so long:.

1. the watchtower often praised rutherford's 1918 talk "millions now living will never die.

" however, everyone who had ever heard that talk was dead.. 2. the governing body urges the placement of the watchtower's "bible" literature with strangers.

matt2414

Reading some of your comments reminded be of a few other gems that I used to hear:

8. At conventions, don't eat a heavy meal at lunchtime or all the blood rushes to your stomach and you'll fall asleep during the afternoon program. However, Awake! says if you have insomnia, don't eat a heavy meal before bedtime or you won't be able to sleep.

9. Circuit overseers used to say, people who put "No Jehovah's Witnesses" signs on their doors are not being taught by their churches to defend their beliefs. However, the Governing Body says "don't talk to apostates."

10. The Watchtower says that "true" Christians do not adhere to non-biblical superstitious practics such as avoiding black cats or walking under a ladder out of fear that something bad will befall them. However, Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to the non-biblical belief that celebrating birthdays will somehow lead to something bad befalling them.

11. The Watchtower says that Christians are not under the Law of Moses and blasts the Pharisees for taking portions of that law and twisting it, in an effort to get people to do their bidding. However, the Governing Body hierarchy is often stating that Christians must follow the "principals found in the Law of Moses," thus giving them license to make up laws just like the Pharisees.

28

Have you ever wondered why as Jehovah's Witnesses you ignored the inconsistencies, lies and hypocricies of the Watchtower's Governing Body for so long?

by matt2414 in

here are a few examples of what i overlooked for so long:.

1. the watchtower often praised rutherford's 1918 talk "millions now living will never die.

" however, everyone who had ever heard that talk was dead.. 2. the governing body urges the placement of the watchtower's "bible" literature with strangers.

matt2414

Here are a few examples of what I overlooked for so long:

1. The Watchtower often praised Rutherford's 1918 talk "Millions Now Living Will Never Die." However, everyone who had ever heard that talk was dead.

2. The Governing Body urges the placement of the Watchtower's "Bible" literature with strangers. However, Witnesses are never allowed to accept Bible literature from non-Witnesses.

3. The GB says the New Testament mainly applies to "anointed" who are going to live in heaven with God. However, at Matthew 28:19, 20 where Jesus tells his "anointed" followers to make disciples of people of all the nations, well that part applies mainly to the "other sheep."

4. The Watchtower says children (minors) ought to be able to attend school and defend the "truth," and stand up to vicious ridicule. However, adult witnesses should not get "higher education" because they could be swayed from the "truth."

5. Jehovah's Witnesses are not to attend college because the pursuit of riches could take them away from the ministry. However, it's OK to own your own business even though it will quite likely take you away from the ministry.

6. Witnesses who go to college should not be given responsibilities in the congregation. However, if you went to college before becoming a Witness, then you may very well qualify for Bethel service as a doctor, lawyer, architect, etc.

7. The GB says God has allowed suffering for thousands of years to prove to the angels a point about God's right to rule. However, mere humans only need a 6-month Bible study with the Witnesses to learn the same point about God's right to rule, then you can get baptized.

These are just a few of the inconsistencies that I can't believe I ignored for so long. And I'm just getting started.